Skip to content

Using 2 studs with 1 bitch during breeding

Breeder Talk
  • I agree with everything said above. My understanding is that the eggs are all released at the same time (like within 24hrs) but the sperm can hang around for 5+ days. So that is why the window for breeding is several days…to make sure you don't miss the eggs. That way nature prevents the situation you described..pups not being 'done'. But what does create pups not appearing to be the same gestational age in the same litter is where the placenta attaches to the uterus. Apparently, there are occasionally "bad" spots to attach. Also, if there are indentical twins in a litter (in the same sac) one may be underdeveloped....but from what I have heard, this rarely happens.

    I am no expert, but I did a lot of reading before Bella's litter...and this is what I can remember :)

  • I have no problem with breeders who choose multiple sires as a breeding option. If both males are in close proximity of one another, there is no reason why natural breedings can't be done. If the males are located too far apart for daily breedings to the bitch then one or both may need to be AI'd. DNA testing both sires, the dam, and every puppy is required and then AKC registration can run several hundred dollars but there are many situations when it is well worth the expense.

  • I lost a LOT of confidence in one of the vets at the practice I go to when he claimed that this is not possible in dogs. I didn't argue, because that's not my way, but I have not gone with that particular vet again.

  • I remember seeing a breeding on a website last year using dual sires, one of which was a full African and the other a high percentage African. That made sense to me as you're not really sure what you'll get with full Afs particularly if they have not been bred before. In theory under ideal circumstances, you would get some idea of what they both might produce with the same bitch without having to wait around to do multiple single sire breedings. I didn't look check back to see what the actual parentage ended up being in the litter.

  • From what I have been able to find out from people who have attempted multiple sire litters, the most effective way to actually get puppies from each sire is to do surgical implant 72 hours after ovulation with one sire's semen in one horn and the other sire's semen in other horn of the uterus. In the majority of natural breedings with multiple sires the puppies are either all from one sire or only 1 or 2 from the second sire even in large litters.

  • Thanks for the answers guys. Breeding is fascinating.

  • I knew Kittens could have different fathers but wasn't sure about Dogs. This explains how our crossbreed Dog was so very different from the rest of the Pups. He wasn't like mum or dad and his sibs were medium sized Black and white collie types. He was a massive Red Lab type.

  • @lvoss:

    From what I have been able to find out from people who have attempted multiple sire litters, the most effective way to actually get puppies from each sire is to do surgical implant 72 hours after ovulation with one sire's semen in one horn and the other sire's semen in other horn of the uterus. In the majority of natural breedings with multiple sires the puppies are either all from one sire or only 1 or 2 from the second sire even in large litters.

    I don't think I would do this with a breed like the Basenji where an average litter size is 4-5 puppies but it make a lot of sense to do in breeds that have litter sizes of 10+ puppies.

    I'm puzzled why planned multiple sire litters would end up with one male predominating fertility? Dogs and cats that run loose and breed randomly sometimes have litters where every puppy or kitten has a different sire. They breed to multiple partners every day so it would seem that breeding a bitch to both males daily would increase the likelihood of both sires fertilizing the bitch. Does anyone know if any studies have been done on this?

  • @YodelDogs:

    I'm puzzled why planned multiple sire litters would end up with one male predominating fertility? Dogs and cats that run loose and breed randomly sometimes have litters where every puppy or kitten has a different sire. They breed to multiple partners every day so it would seem that breeding a bitch to both males daily would increase the likelihood of both sires fertilizing the bitch. Does anyone know if any studies have been done on this?

    The information that I have seen does not support that most mixed breed litters have multiple sires. Though there may be 1 or 2 pups with a different sire much of the variety seen in mixed breed litters are because there is more diversity of alleles in the parents (often mutts themselves) so less uniformity in the litter.

    I do believe that there a few studies that show that nature has made it so that once a male has successfully impregnated a female there are biochemical changes that occur that make a subsequent sire less likely to be successful in some species.

  • Seems like a question for Hutchinson. I know he does tons of implants, he may know about actual splits. Probably AKC does too. If I can remember I'll look or ask both.

Suggested Topics

  • Breeding my 2 year old Basenji

    Breeder Talk
    27
    0 Votes
    27 Posts
    23k Views
    D
    Yes you can be unlucky with anything, but doing everything you can to ensure a healthy dog should be the top priority. My girl has had blood work every year just as routine after my firsts problems. She has no symptoms, we just caught it on the yearly two years ago she slightly elevated, last year she was more elevated. We first started just Nutramax denamarin, three months later it made no difference to her readings. We switched her to Dr Dobs detox diet and Nutramax denamarin, went back after three months and her levels went up! So now we have her on regular food, denamarin in the morning, milk thistle in the afternoon and twice daily 1000mg of fish oil. Due to go back in February and see if that works. If not we will probably have to ultrasound. All her other blood work is normal so that is a good thing.
  • Breeding a basenji?

    Breeder Talk
    19
    0 Votes
    19 Posts
    8k Views
    tanzaT
    @Kipawa: I think most people will agree that neutering a dog does not spoil their spirit or temperament. More often, spaying or neutering results in a more calm, balanced animal. I agree, but we have lots of people on the Forum from over the "pond" and they have most different ideas about spay/neuter, different culture, different ideas…. and that is their right.... sometimes we all will need to agree to disagree..
  • 2009 Breeding Plans

    Breeder Talk
    32
    0 Votes
    32 Posts
    11k Views
    tanzaT
    We will have puppies in the house… but just not born here..gggg.... but thanks for the kind words....
  • Kinetic Breeding Plans

    Breeder Talk
    142
    0 Votes
    142 Posts
    78k Views
    YodelDogsY
    Based solely on these photos, I would rank Bella and Dean the highest but Clark and Flash are certainly not far behind. This is a fabulous litter. I love them all.
  • Oldest to breed males

    Breeder Talk
    2
    0 Votes
    2 Posts
    2k Views
    tanzaT
    @satieo: I was just curious, I saw the thread about ages of bitches but what about males is/should there be a cut off age for them? Obviously they shouldn't be younger than 2 for proper testing. No cut off age… as long as they are potent... I used a 14yr old with one of my litters and it was a natural cover.
  • In-Breeding/Line Breeding

    Breeder Talk
    18
    0 Votes
    18 Posts
    8k Views
    tanzaT
    @Quercus: <> Right...I wasn't sure if that was the litter that Sue was referring to? But I don't know of her doing any other brother/sister breeding. So yes, Ariel is a product of that breeding. The idea was to do a test breeding to see what genetically, if anything, might be brought out. By doing an inbreeding, you can 'expose' recessive genes, and see what you've actually got. You can also set (as in permanantly set) type...but, that wasn't the goal in Sue/Jeff's breeding. In this case, the two "best" "typey" puppies from this litter will most likely be bred on from, as long as they test out as genetically and physically healthy, they will most likely be out-crossed, to bring in different genes. Ariel's brother, George, is quite stunning, and is easily the best looking puppy in the litter. Ariel has a beautiful head, but is long in body, short in leg. Neither one is what we consider a "show dog" ;) And the litter's sire is quite handsome!.... the dam of the litter, while long in the back and short on leg (like it sounds Ariel is) has a great temperament... both are great to build on the future.... and breeding out from these pups will be great to build on too.... I am pretty sure that would be the breeding Sue was talking about, like you I don't know of any other brother/sister breeding she and Jeff has done.