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Using 2 studs with 1 bitch during breeding

Breeder Talk
  • I agree with everything said above. My understanding is that the eggs are all released at the same time (like within 24hrs) but the sperm can hang around for 5+ days. So that is why the window for breeding is several days…to make sure you don't miss the eggs. That way nature prevents the situation you described..pups not being 'done'. But what does create pups not appearing to be the same gestational age in the same litter is where the placenta attaches to the uterus. Apparently, there are occasionally "bad" spots to attach. Also, if there are indentical twins in a litter (in the same sac) one may be underdeveloped....but from what I have heard, this rarely happens.

    I am no expert, but I did a lot of reading before Bella's litter...and this is what I can remember :)

  • I have no problem with breeders who choose multiple sires as a breeding option. If both males are in close proximity of one another, there is no reason why natural breedings can't be done. If the males are located too far apart for daily breedings to the bitch then one or both may need to be AI'd. DNA testing both sires, the dam, and every puppy is required and then AKC registration can run several hundred dollars but there are many situations when it is well worth the expense.

  • I lost a LOT of confidence in one of the vets at the practice I go to when he claimed that this is not possible in dogs. I didn't argue, because that's not my way, but I have not gone with that particular vet again.

  • I remember seeing a breeding on a website last year using dual sires, one of which was a full African and the other a high percentage African. That made sense to me as you're not really sure what you'll get with full Afs particularly if they have not been bred before. In theory under ideal circumstances, you would get some idea of what they both might produce with the same bitch without having to wait around to do multiple single sire breedings. I didn't look check back to see what the actual parentage ended up being in the litter.

  • From what I have been able to find out from people who have attempted multiple sire litters, the most effective way to actually get puppies from each sire is to do surgical implant 72 hours after ovulation with one sire's semen in one horn and the other sire's semen in other horn of the uterus. In the majority of natural breedings with multiple sires the puppies are either all from one sire or only 1 or 2 from the second sire even in large litters.

  • Thanks for the answers guys. Breeding is fascinating.

  • I knew Kittens could have different fathers but wasn't sure about Dogs. This explains how our crossbreed Dog was so very different from the rest of the Pups. He wasn't like mum or dad and his sibs were medium sized Black and white collie types. He was a massive Red Lab type.

  • @lvoss:

    From what I have been able to find out from people who have attempted multiple sire litters, the most effective way to actually get puppies from each sire is to do surgical implant 72 hours after ovulation with one sire's semen in one horn and the other sire's semen in other horn of the uterus. In the majority of natural breedings with multiple sires the puppies are either all from one sire or only 1 or 2 from the second sire even in large litters.

    I don't think I would do this with a breed like the Basenji where an average litter size is 4-5 puppies but it make a lot of sense to do in breeds that have litter sizes of 10+ puppies.

    I'm puzzled why planned multiple sire litters would end up with one male predominating fertility? Dogs and cats that run loose and breed randomly sometimes have litters where every puppy or kitten has a different sire. They breed to multiple partners every day so it would seem that breeding a bitch to both males daily would increase the likelihood of both sires fertilizing the bitch. Does anyone know if any studies have been done on this?

  • @YodelDogs:

    I'm puzzled why planned multiple sire litters would end up with one male predominating fertility? Dogs and cats that run loose and breed randomly sometimes have litters where every puppy or kitten has a different sire. They breed to multiple partners every day so it would seem that breeding a bitch to both males daily would increase the likelihood of both sires fertilizing the bitch. Does anyone know if any studies have been done on this?

    The information that I have seen does not support that most mixed breed litters have multiple sires. Though there may be 1 or 2 pups with a different sire much of the variety seen in mixed breed litters are because there is more diversity of alleles in the parents (often mutts themselves) so less uniformity in the litter.

    I do believe that there a few studies that show that nature has made it so that once a male has successfully impregnated a female there are biochemical changes that occur that make a subsequent sire less likely to be successful in some species.

  • Seems like a question for Hutchinson. I know he does tons of implants, he may know about actual splits. Probably AKC does too. If I can remember I'll look or ask both.

13/13

17 Oct 2010, 04:42

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    Thanks again Ivoss :).
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    I am sorry to jump in late & reply. I have been way to busy to spend time on the internet & am indulging myself the week. It may be months before I visit the Forum again. Regarding breeding your boy. Most breeders will not breed to a male they do not know. They pick a Stud dog for his Health Testing, Pedigree, Show record, conformation & the owners connected. Sometimes location plays a major part. Conformation plays a big part of picking a Stud dog i.e. will he improve on my bitches movement? Topline? Earset? No dog is perfect & we are breeding to improve the Breed not to make money or just have puppies. Not questioning your information, but I would reccomend doing some research & getting all the information you can about you boy. Next regardless of breeding him or not, do ALL the health testing. This will be helpful for your Basenji's future health & maintance. Not all dogs or bitches are 'worthy' of being bred. Find out if you's is worthy & be picky about the bitch he is bred to. It is much easier to buy a Show quality puppy than to breed your next Show prospect. I work for a Veterinarian & many Dog owners want to 'Stud Out' their male. This never happens! As a bitch owner I will find the best dog out there that will mesh with my bitch to produce better puppies. Lastly I have had a dog die very suddenly from prostate problems. He died before I could get him to the Vet. This was years ago when the risk of anestetic was not worth it to me. He was a mix breed & a wonderful dog. Gumby taught he so much in life & his death taught me even more. Don't make the same mistake I made, it isn't worth it. NOT all Finished Champions are of true breeding quality. And "Sperm is Cheap"!! Best of luck & hugs to the pups. Becky & the Ninjas
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