Read all the quotes and statements on Fanconi and work out how contradictory it is for yourself. I don't think many UK Basenji owners do a Fanconi 'strip monthly' and certainly some breeders do advocate no test. Are such breeders irresponsible not necessarily. A 'probable' diagnosis on any medical condition is hardly a scientic diagnosis to say the least but testing is better than not and is certainly better than doing nothing.
Long talk with Dr. Gonto
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@Therese:
I thought maybe if I contacted the OFFA I might get some response in regards to where to find some answers or even the best route to get questions answered by Dr Johnson.
ThereseGood luck with that! I emailed the OFA a few weeks ago about Ace and Ra's and I got nothing!
Jess -
Jess, I quit emailing OFA long ago. Call them! Have gotten wonderful results on the phone.
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Yes, I do know what the committee has been working on… and IMO it is not good enough and other on the committee.
I disagree with your premise that it is not good enough and I imagine there are 10-13 other committee members who would agree with me. I think for what is needed in the here and now it is and it addresses the concerns that have been brewing in recent months.
If it is not as perfect as some folks think it should be (and really - what ever is??) it will be a reflection on the committee as a whole since every single member has had input into the making of it and has had ample opportunity to weigh in. And yes Pat - that would include you (sans 7 days ago when you took your ball and went home.)
I think when members see the results they too will ask questons.
I would hope like heck members WOULD be asking questions. Without questions - the HRC has no direction on where to go and /or what needs to be addressed for the future. I do not have the impression the HRC is considering what they are currently working on as a static piece but one that will evolve as more becomes known.
And please Privately explain "threats"…. LOL... and I say privately because I doubt that anyone here really cares.
Seems folks SHOULD care since it could affect many of us as current and/or future BCOA basenji lovers; as you say we should all be responsible to be engaged within the BCOA - the good the bad and the ugly <insert western="" music="" here="">.
While I can not directly quote what you wrote on the 25th as that would be a breach of the list - I can certainly paraphrase; you and one other committee member (out of I think 14 members) did not like how a certain passage was worded. You wrote to the group that if this passage went as written you would have no problem shouting to the BCOA roof tops via voice or written word your discontent with the very committee you are supposed to be working in tandem with.
Sorry - that is not team playing, that is undermining and manipulative. For me it almost borders on bullying. And folks wonder why it can take many weeks, if not months to put something together.
That said - some folks on the HRC did not agree with many things during the brainstorming sessions of the HRC but at no time did they threaten to stir trouble for the HRC outside of the group and in fact most showed tremendous respect for each other and consideration for the differing opinions. On more than one occasion folks asked the group to get back to that "zone" as it was refreshing to be a spectator on the sidelines, which I was/am.
I for one am proud of what the HRC have accomplished and while it may not be perfect to everyone - it is the cumulation of many, many hours of dedicated volunteers whose sole intention is to make the basenji world a better place.
BCOA folks are more than welcome to join the health chat group and read for themselves. Do note - that only committee members are allowed to vote on anything related to the HRC.
Am I 'friends' with the co-chairs? I would like to think so (I certainly respect their knowledge and contributions to the BCOA), as much as I am 'friends' with anyone in the breed. Just as I would have thought you and I were also 'friends' Pat until your private, and seemingly misdirected post to me venting after you got put on moderation, told me otherwise. I am sorry you feel that way about me.
@Therese:
Linda, I'm confused by your post, you mentioned that Debra and I had access to information and are now looking for instant answers which is difficult, yet in the start of your post you stated the HC has been working on this for several months.
Sorry if I have not been more clear. Firstly - I did not mean to imply you and Debra had access to anything since I do not know what you do or do not have access to.
Secondly - me, you, Debra, and everyone else in the world seem impatient for information in a world where information is at our virtual fingertips. However in the real world there are times when information can not be so readily available and as adults we need to exercise a certain amount of patience without implications that work is not being done or secrets are being kept. I was just reminding folks of that basic fact.
When you have a committee of 14 or so members in various parts of the world it can and does take awhile for things to come together as they should. And there is nothing negative to infer in that depsite what some would have you believe.
So sorry you read my reply to Pat as an attack. I was only replying to her disparagement of the BCOA, the HRC (esp. the chairs) and the BHE - who do not have a voice on these forums - when she and I both know the HRC has been hard at work for many, many weeks.
It is, IMO, unfair for Pat to continue to imply to this forum that the HRC, the BCOA and/or the BHE have been resting on their laurels doing naught.
In truth it would go against my nature to allow such implications to go un-addressed when I have information to the contrary. If that makes me a pot or kettle - then whstttttt</insert>
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People might be able to join and make a comment, duly noted that they are ignored with some exceptions when others are "assigned" to tasks and are not even members of the committee, just observers.
And Linda, your attacks are directed at me personally as noted by Therese, my vent to you was because of an attack to me personally.
People will need to judge for themselves if the response from the Health Committee answers the questions. I think not.
And I am totally for the Linkage test if anyone is interested and think that it is the greatest tool we have in addition to breeders knowing the bloodlines they are breeding. It is certainly better then just only knowing the pedigrees, however there have been questions raised that need answers.
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I was very much not going to post in regards to this thread seeing as it is highly controversial but I am going to say this: and I must say that some may like it and some may hate that I am saying this but someone has to say it,
I am not a member of the BCOA and to be honest I do not really have the need to know specifics of why Pat is no longer a member and likewise I do not care to know if Sinbaje is friends and how close with the chair (which I am assuming is lingo for president?).
I learned a lot about Basenji's when doing research and found that the biggest commitment wasn't in owning one but in having to deal with the BS that people in this breed tend to get themselves in. Most of the people in this breed are people like myself- that love the breed and have moderate knowledge, however the select few ruin it for people like myself by getting crazy, gossiping about breeders, getting political about the BCOA etc…it has to stop! I enjoyed the knowledge this thread started with and it ended up like this: lord knows what I am going to do when I am getting my second because I do NOT want to deal with this craziness again, and many do not want to deal with me because I don't want to get into it. When it gets ugly it is never because of a Basenji, it is always about one person bashing another....jeezLastly, I will say this: everyone who gets nasty or crazy says it is because they love the breed, well let me tell you this:
I have chosen not to get involved in any BCOA activities or into lure coursing or agility or even go to shows for the sole reason that I DO NOT want to witness or be part of the garbage that comes out of some adults mouths. Now tell me how that helps the breed that MANY MANY people feel so discouraged that they do not get involved? Now thats a shame!What this thread turned into is a prime example of the banter that scares people away
To Debra: thank you for this valuable information, Oakley and I appreciate it
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While I respect your views, I disagree and challenge that all Basenji owners should be engaged with BCOA. This is the club of the people and only the people can make it their own, run with the leaders they want, trust and respect.
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I agree that everyone should be but it is not an easy world to navigate when you are new and have to deal with all the politics. There is no respect and trust with what I have seen.. I can not tell you how much gossip I hear, has been spread about me when I post here etc…it is disheartening because I wanted to be involved in the Basenji community but with what I see ( this as an example) it isn't a place I want to be in my spare time and I wouldn't subject Oakley to it either. To me, with what is happening, I am being a better Basenji owner than if I were involved.
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and let me add: this is not directed towards Sinbaje or Tanza- merely a rant about the politics that are getting out of control lately.
No one can disagree with me that things have been crazy with the gossip, member issues etc.
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I agree that everyone should be but it is not an easy world to navigate when you are new and have to deal with all the politics. There is no respect and trust with what I have seen.. I can not tell you how much gossip I hear, has been spread about me when I post here etc…it is disheartening because I wanted to be involved in the Basenji community but with what I see ( this as an example) it isn't a place I want to be in my spare time and I wouldn't subject Oakley to it either. To me, with what is happening, I am being a better Basenji owner than if I were involved.
I do not agree, all of us that are Basenji owners need to be involved… this is our breed and without members that question or are engaged we will not get to the place we all want to be...
BCOA should be for the members, not a select group of breeders... while they may have the knowledge, they are only a few and there are many other breeders that have different opinions. Not to say that any or all are wrong, but they deserve to be heard. If members are not engaged then a few will "take" over the club to what their agenda is........... think about it.....
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I agree that everyone should be but it is not an easy world to navigate when you are new and have to deal with all the politics. There is no respect and trust with what I have seen.. I can not tell you how much gossip I hear, has been spread about me when I post here etc…it is disheartening because I wanted to be involved in the Basenji community but with what I see ( this as an example) it isn't a place I want to be in my spare time and I wouldn't subject Oakley to it either. To me, with what is happening, I am being a better Basenji owner than if I were involved.
There's gossip spread about you on this forum?? In what way may I ask. I been on this forum for 4 years and it seems pretty good to me. And how do you hear so much gossip? There are times when it may get a little heated now and then but hey it's a discussion forum. If someone's too obnoxious they get the boot.
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People might be able to join and make a comment, duly noted that they are ignored with some exceptions when others are "assigned" to tasks and are not even members of the committee, just observers.
I must have missed the being ignored part as I have not seen that personally - at least not intentionally; with in excess of 1400 posts flying around in a matter of weeks - it would be easy to lose track of things.
As for assigning tasks to folks that are just observers - where is the harm in embracing everyone as much as possible, whenever possible, especially when committee members seemingly do not want to do it themselves. I see no harm in that. These folks might be future volunteers, no need to treat them as second class citizens.
And Linda, your attacks are directed at me personally as noted by Therese, my vent to you was because of an attack to me personally.
Sorry but I do not feel I am attacking you. Instead I am defending the HRC, the BCOA and the BHE with contrary information than what you would have folks beleive thus allowing others to make an informed opine.
And your vent to me privately was not in regards to any attack, real or implied, by me against you on the HRC list. I am not sure why you would imply that. As I stated to you in my reply:
"I said xxxxx's post re: the need for action of the BHE is how I personally read xxxx's reply to your enthusiasm. It was obvious to me at least she was asking for you - as the committee member - to join forces with xxxxx as a non-member to come up with a call to action for the BHE, Board or Membership. Other than that I never said a word about you by name in any of my posts."
So I am stull unsure why you felt the need to vent to me and accuse me of things I did not do.
Chealsie508 - I have to agree with you 100%. Even as a long standing BCOA member and a current Board member it is not an easy world to navigate and certainly not a pleasant one in recent months.
I have always found my way by listening to both sides then looking in the middle for the truth.
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Nobarkus- Well, I prefer not to come out and say it but much of what I post about on the forum whether it be asking questions or which threads I respond to stirs things up for me outside the forum. As to how I know about much of what goes on, that too corresponds outside the forum. Like I have said, I prefer not to say too much because I am in the process of looking to get Oakley a Basenji sister and I do not want to jeopardize that but lets just say that my introduction to basenji's after getting Oakley has not been rainbows and butterflies. In my experience many stones are being cast from all directions and I feel as though the emphasis is being taken off of the breed and become more about people being right/wrong/better or worse etc… I want to be a part of the BCOA and a part of events and even attend shows as both Oakley and I would get great joy out of the experience but until I feel better about the political aspect of it I choose to remove myself from it.
To clarify, I completely agree Pat that it is the responsibility of owners and those who care about the breed to get involved for the betterment of the breed. While I advocate for it, I also know why many choose not to. -
Nobarkus- Well, I prefer not to come out and say it but much of what I post about on the forum whether it be asking questions or which threads I respond to stirs things up for me outside the forum. As to how I know about much of what goes on, that too corresponds outside the forum. Like I have said, I prefer not to say too much because I am in the process of looking to get Oakley a Basenji sister and I do not want to jeopardize that but lets just say that my introduction to basenji's after getting Oakley has not been rainbows and butterflies. In my experience many stones are being cast from all directions and I feel as though the emphasis is being taken off of the breed and become more about people being right/wrong/better or worse etc… I want to be a part of the BCOA and a part of events and even attend shows as both Oakley and I would get great joy out of the experience but until I feel better about the political aspect of it I choose to remove myself from it.
To clarify, I completely agree Pat that it is the responsibility of owners and those who care about the breed to get involved for the betterment of the breed. While I advocate for it, I also know why many choose not to.Sorry to hear it's not going well for you. I have seen 3-4 people in person outside the forum at a meet up or event but we never talked about the forum.
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Lastly, I will say this: everyone who gets nasty or crazy says it is because they love the breed, well let me tell you this:
I have chosen not to get involved in any BCOA activities or into lure coursing or agility or even go to shows for the sole reason that I DO NOT want to witness or be part of the garbage that comes out of some adults mouths. Now tell me how that helps the breed that MANY MANY people feel so discouraged that they do not get involved? Now thats a shame!This part of your post really caught my eye especially with regard to agility. I've done agility competitively since 1999 and I got to say the agility community is one of the most supportive, caring communities I've ever encountered. I've also done conformation, coursing, dabbled in rally, and therapy work. Have I ever heard some poor comments in agility, well, yes, but mostly it's a friendly bunch. 99% of my encounters with my fellow agility competitors, judges and workers have been VERY positive. And I'm not about to let that 1% change how I decide to look at things. How many agility trials have you been to?
Conformation can be sort of a mixed bag, but mostly I've met nice, good people. Some are rather poor loosers or poor winners, but most are pretty good apples in the bunch. Sometimes the judges' descision makes NO sense, but I try not to dwell on that too much. LC can also be a little bit of a mixed bag, but my dogs enjoy it so much. Certainly the fun runs are worth going to. Therapy work is pretting interesting from this aspect. Most people are receptive, but I've also been cussed out and one lady tried to run over my dog with her walker yelling at us all the way.
But really, I believe mostly these basenji people are a pretty good bunch. If you don't believe me, take a look at my most recent thread titled "Zest". I've never even met most of those people in real life. And there were even more emails of concern from the basenji list.
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Wow… okay then. Can I ask that maybe someone start a Health committee thread and move the debate about them there?
On Basenji breeders/showing etc. I guess for me it is different. I came from Rottweilers. OMG you have no idea what gossip and nastiness is. Perhaps it is the type of persons who want them, perhaps it is a massive population making competition more fierce. But when we got Sayblee and were showing, total noobs, there was not ONE SINGLE BREEDER, handler or owner who was not kind, supportive and helpful. Not one. Not a snide comment when this newbie walked in and won, not one indication of anything but shared congratulations. Is there gossip... yeah. Come on, there are gossip/nastiness in every community, church, organization. Do what you like, be it show or agility or lure coursing, and tune out the negatives. You really can do it all and avoid politics.
Linda, thanks re: BCOA.
As for not being able to give out info, that has me confused. With a short list of critical questions, why would posting results which are bonafide facts/stats, be an issue with anyone. They are what they are.
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I guess people have had better luck than me in regards to their experiences. Debra, you are right that many breeds are far worse in regards to the nastiness and it is in every community. I would just like to see it die down. To be fair I haven't been to many events so you all could be right that there is less drama there… I just know what I have seen, been dragged into and gone through, much of which was uncalled for. Let me just say, that since I have had Oakley there have been a couple times I needed advice or sought answers to questions and rather than be met with kindess I was met with harsh, unnecessary words, and for that things have been tainted ever since
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Agilebasenji, I appreciate the insight as I know you are far more experienced in the arena of events such as agility and coursing. It had made me consider about attending another lure coursing event when one comes up in the new England area. I suppose giving it another chance won't hurt. On a side note, I have been following zests thread and I do hope he is recovering quickly!
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I guess people have had better luck than me in regards to their experiences. Debra, you are right that many breeds are far worse in regards to the nastiness and it is in every community. I would just like to see it die down. To be fair I haven't been to many events so you all could be right that there is less drama there… I just know what I have seen, been dragged into and gone through, much of which was uncalled for. Let me just say, that since I have had Oakley there have been a couple times I needed advice or sought answers to questions and rather than be met with kindess I was met with harsh, unnecessary words, and for that things have been tainted ever since
Help me understand this. You say "Debra, you are right that many breeds are far worse in regards to the nastiness and it is in every community. I would just like to see it die down".This sounds like a generalized negative statement if you haven't been to many events. I've been to and participated in lure coursing events and people were friendly and pretty nice. What have you been dragged into and gone through?
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Agilebasenji, I appreciate the insight as I know you are far more experienced in the arena of events such as agility and coursing. It had made me consider about attending another lure coursing event when one comes up in the new England area. I suppose giving it another chance won't hurt. On a side note, I have been following zests thread and I do hope he is recovering quickly!
Chealsie,
I'd encourage you to give it another try, and I definitely understand your perspective being relatively new to local and national basenji breed organizations. If there are any local basenji club meet-ups perhaps on a more social level, I'd say try to go to those. Usually in those cases those people actually want to be around each other so it's a better situation for getting to know people. Plus you can build off those relationships to make the other events more fulfilling. I've found a lot of people to be just plain blunt, they really aren't necessarily trying to be mean and often times they're trying to be helpful. It is just a communication style I've had to get more used to since entering the dog world and I oftentimes have to take a step back to think about what they probably meant versus having a knee-jerk reaction.
I think developing a rapport with people in many of the online lists in the larger fancy community is challenging. It's a large dysfunctional family, it pulls together when it needs to but most of the time there is lots of disagreement and bickering that cycles from time-to-time. I hear, like you've said it's better than other breeds, but I have no point of reference.
To build off your previous comments, I'd say some people are very "passionate" regarding their viewpoints. So much so they spend so much time justifying and defending their positions to others in "discussions" but spend very little time engaging and trying to understand the perspectives of others. It becomes toxic and self-defeating and non-constructive. And that is what really turns me off from getting much more involved than I am currently. I haven't had many issues at actual events so I feel pretty comfortable attending those and have been lucky enough to meet some very nice people. So, try to find those more real-life versus virtual connections and hopefully you'll have better luck at finding more basenji-related activities that you enjoy.
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It isnt generalized because it is from my own experiences with people in the breed, not how it is for everyone.Not the events but individual people trying to make me look bad or as though I am not doing the best for my dog. You don't have to be involved in the vents to see the nastiness of people. Without going into detail as I care not to bash anyone directly but I have reached out for advice only to have my hand slapped. That is a mistake I will not make again. It has nothing to do with this forum or at an event- which is the extent I will go to in talking about it. It is not misleading to say that other breeds have more cattiness as a basenji is not my first breed. And I stated fully that my rant was not directly based on my experiences of events such as conformation, coursing, agility. But what I do know is there are people I rather not run into at these events
