I am so sorry for the loss but like the others, glad he was able to be there. ((hugs)))
Anyone know this breeder… in NY?
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Where is the **health testing information??? yikes!
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The reason I had posted Ace's, "Ahmahr Nahr's ace number one" actual certificate is because we do work with people who do not have as much knowledge of the process and realize they may want to see the actual certificate.
And yet the certificate you posted is so vague that it could have easily been any brindle boy, in fact that is the "name" on the certificate. It does not identify the tested dog as Ace or Ahmahr Nahr's ace number one. If that was enough for the buyers to feel comfortable that the parents were adequately tested then they are seriously under educated about health testing. What about the dam? Both parents should be tested before breeding.
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Hey curlytails?
what other interesting basenji or any other breed blogs do you know about? -
I do also understand that our site has a long way to go. I am constantly working to improve it.
believe that we can learn a lot.
We have also began working with another breeder whom we consider to be very accomplished and respected in the basenji world, to become more educated and involved in the community. .Your site concerns no one, it is the testing and lack of upfront information that is the concern. The best puppymillers have superb webpages. That isn't how responsible breeders are judged.
Too bad you didn't learn a lot before diving into breeding.
I hope you are sincere about wanting to learn and do things right. Will be watching for your responses on testing.
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Your site concerns no one, it is the testing and lack of upfront information that is the concern. The best puppymillers have superb webpages. That isn't how responsible breeders are judged.
Too bad you didn't learn a lot before diving into breeding.
I hope you are sincere about wanting to learn and do things right. Will be watching for your responses on testing.
Debradownsouth, I realize to you and some others we may be looked at as a back yard breeder. I suppose I can understand why! Our goal though, is to be a responsible breeder.. I can admit that maybe we did jump the gun and had more to learn before breeding our dogs. but, We do realize this and are trying to take steps to correct this.. Such as, joining here on the forums in an attempt to make new friends and to learn as much about our beloved breed as we can.
Though we might not have started in the correct manner we are looking to change that, We came here in hopes of meeting people that are knowledgeable of this breed and are willing to share their knowledge with us so that we can make responsible breeding choices. Although, I am starting to get the impression that some members of this community have no desire to help "new comers" and would rather push them away than take the time to guide them into better ways.Again, Maybe we got off on the wrong foot here on the forums. That was not my intent and I would like to start over if we can…. We do all share a common goal here and our love for this breed is what drives us all.
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Although, I am starting to get the impression that some members of this community have no desire to help "new comers" and would rather push them away than take the time to guide them into better ways.
I am positive that no one feels this way. Everyone here, humans and dogs, benefits when there are more responsible breeders. If your goal is truly to be a responsible breeder, people will support that goal. They'll also speak their minds about what is NOT responsible. Some of those things might be opinion, but most of them are universally agreed upon.
I hope your mentor is solid and plain-spoken
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If you truly plan to become responsible people will support you but actions speak louder than words. Your sig block alone, still speaks towards your choice to use the accomplishments of others to add value to your own dogs as a selling point. What are your accomplishments with your dogs? What is your involvement in the basenji community?
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dmey, I'll start another thread later about dog blogs I like.
Basenjiblogs, are you a member of the BCOA? I notice you link to them on your page, (along with BRAT), so I assume that these organizations have your support. Becoming a member of these groups, or at least BCOA, is one way to back up any claim of being a responsible breeder. That is what I would like to see as a puppy buyer, anyway.
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dmey, I'll start another thread later about dog blogs I like.
Basenjiblogs, are you a member of the BCOA? I notice you link to them on your page, (along with BRAT), so I assume that these organizations have your support. Becoming a member of these groups, or at least BCOA, is one way to back up any claim of being a responsible breeder. That is what I would like to see as a puppy buyer, anyway.
BCOA does not endorse breeders. It has a lengthy disclaimer on the breeder listing. I don't think having an external link from this site to BCOA implies support. But, yes, being a member of BCOA is a step in the right direction, but not a guarantee.
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Obviously you already have a litter so are a bit behind the "8" ball already, but as said, actions speak louder then words. Get you dogs health test and the results on the open OFA datatbase, regardless of if they are good or bad…. Hips, elbows, thyroid, CERF (eyes) along with Fanconi DNA, is a good start...
This along with placing pups on a spay/neuter contract unless they are going to be shown... which in my experience is pretty far and few inbetween.....
And I agree with Nemo, being a member of BCOA doesn't mean that someone is a responsible breeder, but it is a start. Also being a member of a local Basenji club is a good start also....
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BCOA does not endorse breeders. It has a lengthy disclaimer on the breeder listing. I don't think having an external link from this site to BCOA implies support. But, yes, being a member of BCOA is a step in the right direction, but not a guarantee.
Yes, thanks for the clarification. I'm not a BCOA member, so I don't really know how these things work, but I did glance over at what it takes to BE a member… I saw that one, you have to be in good standing with the AKC. And two, you need two current BCOA members to sign off on your membership application. Which would imply some involvement with the community. It's not just about paying membership dues and having that be it.
I think it's an interesting (but certainly not fail-proof) way for the breed club to maintain integrity over its membership, and why I would be WAY more inclined to trust anyone already listed in their breeder directory. Though of course I'm sure there are degrees of difference even with breeders on that list.
I'm assuming there's a way to remove a breeder from the directory too if they're found to be in egregious violation of ethical codes? Maybe this is a separate discussion.
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If you truly plan to become responsible people will support you but actions speak louder than words. Your sig block alone, still speaks towards your choice to use the accomplishments of others to add value to your own dogs as a selling point. What are your accomplishments with your dogs? What is your involvement in the basenji community?
I did not realize there was a problem with my signature, though I did not state anything that was untrue. We do have Champion bloodlines, also, our dogs are AKC registered. I did not make any claims that are untrue…. and using the work of others to promote our dogs is not what we were trying to do....I do agree with you about "our personal accomplishments" but, as I have stated, we are taking steps to begin showing our dogs.
To be quite honest, We have tried in the past to become more involved in the Basenji community and then too, we were received in this same hostile manner. How can anyone expect to keep this breed strong when there are people that love this breed and are trying to become more involved but, feel pushed away. I understand we may have made some mistakes. We started out as owners who loved this breed and never had intentions of breeding our dogs. so yes, I am sure there are some things we should have done differently. But, We WANT to learn and to share what knowledge we have with others.... that was our purpose for starting the blog site... Yes, we do sell our puppies but, we are also trying to teach others what we know and have learned from our experiences living with this wonderful breed. -
I just got off the phone with Chris Maxka of SunDiata Basenjis. Chris is the breeder of Miss P. Miss P was sold to a lady as a show prospect but, unknown to Chris, Miss P was rehomed to Basenjiblogs. Chris recently became aware of Miss P's new residence and reached out to Basenjiblogs. She has offered to mentor Basenjiblogs and to teach them about how to breed responsibly. Basenjiblogs are serious about wanting to learn how to do things the right way and are planning to start health testing asap.
Basenjiblogs, please understand that members of this community are extremely dedicated to protecting the breed. The community is not against breeding but it is against irresponsible or unethical breeding. I think that you are starting to realize mistakes that you have made but I also feel that you mean it when you say that you are eager to learn how to breed responsibly. Please don't let any negativity get in the way. The people here are good people even though many are very passionate about certain topics. We are all happy to help in any way that we can although our techniques are varied. Stay on the forum and soon you will find friendship.
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That is great to hear that Chris has reached out to Basenjiblogs. Hopefully a good lesson is learned with the fact that Chris placed a bitch that was rehomed without her knowledge. I know that Chris's contract says they go back to her…. So, it is important to keep in touch with all of your puppy people because this could happen to all of us... also leads to wonder if Chris was on the papers as a co-owner since this was a show prospect? I am guessing not? If so, then when this bitch was re-homed the papers could not be transferred or any litters registered because all the owners had not signed. Not everyone likes co-ownerships, but in this case for example, it would have stopped this bitch from falling from Chris's radar (at least as far as registration/litters)
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I didn't say that you didn't state facts but you are using the hard work of others to add value to your dogs without doing the hard work yourself. It is very easy to say that you "are going to start" but until you actually do, it means very little. You have chosen to breed first and use the accomplishments of others as the selling point for your dogs which most people are not going to be very receptive to and has probably contributed to the attitude of others you have encountered in the breed.
If you choose to respond with hostility when someone points out how your method of presenting yourself appears to those who see it then chances are you are not going to get a warm welcome.
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I didn't say that you didn't state facts but you are using the hard work of others to add value to your dogs without doing the hard work yourself. It is very easy to say that you "are going to start" but until you actually do, it means very little. You have chosen to breed first and use the accomplishments of others as the selling point for your dogs which most people are not going to be very receptive to and has probably contributed to the attitude of others you have encountered in the breed.
If you choose to respond with hostility when someone points out how your method of presenting yourself appears to those who see it then chances are you are not going to get a warm welcome.
lvoss, Can we start over here please? I admit that I may have given a bit of an attitude and am sorry, I felt sense joining the forums we were just nailed with negative comments….. I suppose it got to me and I responded in the wrong way. I am sorry.
I did read you post about speaking with Chris and I just wanted to clarify one thing for everyone... SunDiatas kamli Uhuru "Miss P" was originally purchased by my mother. My mother became I'll several years ago and asked us to take he here with us... That is how we came to have her. -
Basenjiblogs, Pat and Lisa are just the best breeders you could ever want to learn from.
I don't breed or show, just do rescue, and I support them 100%.
You did put the breeding before the hard work was done, but as you know now that there are things to get done so we are looking forward to some information on testing and the results. -
I did read you post about speaking with Chris and I just wanted to clarify one thing for everyone… SunDiatas kamli Uhuru "Miss P" was originally purchased by my mother. My mother became I'll several years ago and asked us to take he here with us... That is how we came to have her.
Another lesson learned… make sure that you contact the breeder (particularly if there is a contract) if a dog is rehomed, even with another family member...
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Firstly, I think it's great you will be working with Chris from now on. The act of wanting to learn and grow to appreciate Basenjis responsibly is excellent. I would echo the thoughts of others in saying glean what you can from Pat (Tanza) and Lisa (lvoss) - they are lovely, informative and respected breeders who have a wealth of knowledge I'm sure they would share.
I also think it's important that instead of feeling pushed away by the community, you seek to understand where the sentiment is coming from. As Basenji enthusiasts we too are deeply devoted to the breed, so when it's found that multiple litters are being born with no health testing and no outside mentoring - that is concerning. We have sat on this forum and watched many people buy puppies with no health testing, no pedigree information have their dogs develop Fanconi syndrome or extreme behavioral problems because the owners or the breeder were in the breed for profit or a cheap pup. We have hear the agonizing stories and extreme lengths members have taken to care for their ailing Fanconi ridden dogs - people who scheme just to get their loved family member to eat a little of something. Since this disease has had a marker test since 2007, we are of course angry to hear that new puppies are being brought into this world without testing, without regard to their future lives or their future owners lives. Outside of being legally questionable, not health testing is allowing innocent dogs to suffer a disease which is now avoidable. There has even been a story of a person who bred a litter of Basenjis just for her friends and family, and then one of the dogs was sold to a puppymill because there was no contract and obviously she sold dogs who were still intact. Responsible breeders have dedicated large parts of their lives to being involved with the Basenji community through events, shows, breed clubs etc. They know the genetics of their dogs, they know foundation stock, they arn't "talking shop," they are literally sharing parts of their lives when they speak about their breeding program. They are looking to improve the breed, not to have puppies for friends, or make money, or the novelty of puppies.. there is a purpose in what they do and their peers offer large amounts of peer criticism. Any person who wants to embark on something so serious as bringing new life into the world should welcome many advisers and be prepared and ready to hear things they don't like. It should not then come as a surprise when warning alarms go off when you are selling "show quality" puppies for $2000. No responsible breeder sells Basenji pups for that much. But commercial and backyard breeders sure do. Furthermore who is judging these puppies to determine if they are show quality ? It is apparent that you do not have the experience to say so, so who does ? None of the breeders I know personally define or price "show" pups and "pet" pups, they are pups and some will be shown and some wont. I say all this because I want it to be understood that the breeders on the forum and the rest of us are not trying to gang up on you (or anyone) and make them feel bad. We want what is best for the breed we admire, it sounds like you do as well.
I urge you to keep getting advice and commend you for making the steps you have already made.
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Re Pat's advice of giving breeders information they have a dog being rehome, rescue does that routinely.
It the right thing to do, make sure the breeders know where they pups are ending up.
Happy for me, most of the PNW breeders do take the dogs back, no matter what the age.
