Pat, yeah, it was many but the specialist from GA (who does CERF btw, or did, could be retired at this point) said all were iris to iris and none should cause her issues. But you can still see them. I am comforted to know that a lot of strands don't pass as I honestly don't remember seeing that limitation, only on placement. Been a long time since I looked at CERF. But the issue was and then, the person LIED. She sent me a puppy for my child, who already had more on her than any child should with my health issues, that she obviously had no clue about– a puppy she had no clue about it's eye health. And then wanted her back if I wasn't going to breed her as she would. Yeah, over my dead body.
Blue eyes?
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I wouldn't breed from a Basenji with a blue eye as in my opinion it has to be a defect.
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Speaking of blue eyes - did you know ALL blue eyed people share one common ancestor? This was a trivia question on Discovery Health last night. Such a small world. Sure am glad I have brown eyes - much more diversity in my background. :O)
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Speaking of blue eyes - did you know ALL blue eyed people share one common ancestor? This was a trivia question on Discovery Health last night. Such a small world. Sure am glad I have brown eyes - much more diversity in my background. :O)
Scientific theories are always interesting…even those impossible to prove
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However, I do have to point out, if you are talking about the pups from the Fla rescue… no one really knows for sure if they are really purebred Basenjis or not...
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Speaking of blue eyes - did you know ALL blue eyed people share one common ancestor? This was a trivia question on Discovery Health last night. Such a small world. Sure am glad I have brown eyes - much more diversity in my background. :O)
Wow - that's interesting. Where do green eyes land in that analysis? Are they considered the "blue eyed" group? My son has really light goldish eyes - "brown eyed" group? :rolleyes:
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However, I do have to point out, if you are talking about the pups from the Fla rescue… no one really knows for sure if they are really purebred Basenjis or not...
LOL no one can prove the African dogs are pure Basenji either. But you look at 50 something rescue dogs and every one looks like a Basenji, not one has characteristics that COULD NOT BE BASENJI, why doubt it?
Scientific theories are always interesting…even those impossible to prove
They actually posted the blue eyes info a few years ago. I haven't seen a single scientist dispute the findings. They have found only a couple who don't fit the profile.
http://www.livescience.com/health/080131-blue-eyes.html
It is not known why blue eyes spread among the population of northern Europe and southern Russia. Explanations include the suggestions that the blue eye colour either offered some advantage in the long hours of daylight in the summer, or short hours of daylight in winter, or that the trait was deemed attractive and therefore advantageous in terms of sexual selection.
Green eyes are not a mutation, like blue; they are due to probably melanin amt and other genes.
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It is a matter of opinion that they all look like Basenjis, to me, many look like fox hounds and/or Fox Terriers and since they bred on their own and were certainly in a place were other dogs could get it or even breed through fences there is no way to really know if they are purebred Basenjis or not…
There is a person in GA that is using a male that "looks" much like a Basenji until you study him up close... then you start to notice the Fox Terrier in there with the head shape, ear shape even the color pigment... and come to find out, the male she is breeding with came from a guy in New Mexico that for years was crossing his Fox Terriers with Basenjis for coursing
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It is a matter of opinion that they all look like Basenjis, to me, many look like fox hounds and/or Fox Terriers and since they bred on their own and were certainly in a place were other dogs could get it or even breed through fences there is no way to really know if they are purebred Basenjis or not…
I have to agree with Debra - they all look like basenjis to me and there is nothing in these dogs that have not been seen in purebred basejis.
I find it interesting that some stray dog could get in do the dirty deed then get out and yet all the basenjis did not/do not go in and out at will and from what I can gather - COULD NOT go in and out at will. I also know my pack of 5 - who are not feral - would NOT allow any stray dog or cat into the yard alive or without serious harm. To think some superstud jumped in, had his way with a bitch or two or three then promptly left is a good story but that's all it is - a good story.
As for the GA dog - I am quite familiar - up close and in person - with the dogs behind this dog - they look nothing like the Florida group in my opine.
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I agree with Pat…I do see some terrier-like qualities in some of these dogs. But who knows where it came from, or how far back. All it would take is one dog several generations back who had some rat terrier, to occasionally have a 'terrier' looking pup in a litter of 'basenjis'. Doesn't really matter...we could debate it forever, but we will never know, and I am sure it doesn't matter to their loving owners.
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I have to agree with Debra - they all look like basenjis to me and there is nothing in these dogs that have not been seen in purebred basejis.
I find it interesting that some stray dog could get in do the dirty deed then get out and yet all the basenjis did not/do not go in and out at will and from what I can gather - COULD NOT go in and out at will. I also know my pack of 5 - who are not feral - would NOT allow any stray dog or cat into the yard alive or without serious harm. To think some superstud jumped in, had his way with a bitch or two or three then promptly left is a good story but that's all it is - a good story.
As for the GA dog - I am quite familiar - up close and in person - with the dogs behind this dog - they look nothing like the Florida group in my opine.
If I remember right, the fencing was wire.. didn't have to get in or out…Many do look like purebred basenjis... until you start to see the ear drops... and the head shapes... sure could just be badly conformation basenjis... or mixes.. as already pointed out, one will never know....
and as pointed out, the main thing is that they have great forever homes... and have been rescued from not so nice conditions.... and will not be bred any longer
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Well Pat, here's a truth. Without dna testing we don't know if YOUR dogs, or anyone's, are really pure basenji. We don't. And? We don't know if anyone's lines are what they claim. Most of us who have been around a while hear of breeders who have championed a stud who was sterile or seemingly so and used another dog's semen. Fortunately NOW with DNA we have a better chance of reporting people and getting action… yet few step up.
We had someone breeding and selling RARE gray rotties, lol. Weimaraner mixes, we knew it but 20 yrs ago couldn't prove it. There is a gal in KY selling miniature rotties. Who knows what she bred with. Registered animals. Proves nothing.
I guess I am just wondering why you bothered to suggest they weren't pure basenji. No one knows about any dog unless you have DNA. And we have opened the registry to African imports that no one had a CLUE what was really behind them... based purely on LOOKS. The FL group.. unlike the Africans... won't be added into the gene pool so pure, a coyote or wolf or chihuahua 6 generations back, what does it matter? I am willing to bet a good majority of people have chain link type fences their purebred bitches MIGHT have mated through. And? But frankly, 10 yrs with basenji make me pretty darned sure the idea of that pack allowing a nonpack male to mate through the fence is pretty unlikely.
Btw, I am not criticizing the Africans. We needed them. Just as several years back the Maine Coon cat club opened it's registry to non-Maine Coons to open up the gene pool. I forget how long they allowed it, but you do what is necessary.
As for conformation or mix, who knows. Have seen poorly bred registered basenji that looked worse than the worse ones in FL, lol. So have you. Cara... people say she is beautiful... and I think.. not when you look at standard! She has a lazy eye, eye color closer to yellow than brown, ears not really erect, overbite, higher butt than front.. show wise she is far from beautiful. And I love every molecule of her.
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Well Pat, here's a truth. Without dna testing we don't know if YOUR dogs, or anyone's, are really pure basenji. We don't. And? We don't know if anyone's lines are what they claim. Most of us who have been around a while hear of breeders who have championed a stud who was sterile or seemingly so and used another dog's semen. Fortunately NOW with DNA we have a better chance of reporting people and getting action… yet few step up.
Maybe you know of people like that, I don't and not in Basenjis and I have been around quite a while, so maybe it happens with other breeds. With DNA testing for parentage, we can at least prove that a pup came from a particular Dog/Bitch breeding. And can go back quite a few years in doing so. For many years now, if you are using fresh chilled or frozen, they must be DNA test. I would like to believe that most responsible breeders are honest about the sires/dams.
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I believe ALL responsible breeders are honest about sire/dams… how would they be RESPONSIBLE if they weren't?
But I don't think we know absolutely who IS responsible. We had a Rottie breeder who was uber respected... til 2 people reported her for using 2 studs on a bitch. (Keep in mind all this long before DNA... thank goodness now for DNA but that is current.)
As for proving, if you are not using semen, you don't have to test generally. So again, no one would KNOW. And if several generations ago.. Anyway, none of that was the point. The point was, pure, not pure, it's all conjecture for most dogs. Some day they may DNA test every dog as part of registration. It will be a good thing. But imagining some superstud leaping into the basenji fence when even the basenji couldn't get out, or so beguiling he tempted some in heat bitch to back up to the fence because no male in the fence would do once she saw him... and even the other dogs were so amazed as this stud they backed off and let it occur... well for what purpose? So we can't prove all rescues are pure, so what? LOOKING basenji was good enough for adding in the Africans.
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You do have to test, read the AKC regulations for litters sired by frozen. Mandatory requirements say 1. After october 1, 1998 AKC DNA profiling is required for all stud dogs whose semen is collected for forzen semen use.
And "looking" Basenji was/is not the only thing that was/is used for adding the Africans if you go and read the requirements.
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Of course required for artificial… reread and don't know where you got I didn't know that. I said:
As for proving, if you are not using semen, you don't have to test generally.
Pretty clear I know if you use semen (ie not live cover) you have to test. But you ALSO have to test when producing lots of litters. I saw no reason to get into the specifics there. But let me state it clearly so you don't argue more on item that has nothing to do with the issue..
If you use semen (ie not live cover) you have to do DNA. If you do live cover, generally you do NOT have to do DNA unless you
1. use more than one stud
2. the stud produces a certain number of litters (not looking up number) and a few other situations.And Pat, chill, really. I didn't say looks was the ONLY. My point, which I stated repeatedly, is that the African dogs also don't KNOW for sure if pure basenji.
