Coat Color Inheritance in basenji
-
As I've said before, Fula black is a misnomer. There were no blacks in Fula's line the correct term is 'Fula Tri'. From Fula's descendants tri-colours were born without melon pips and that is the correct definition of a Fula Tri. This is not my opinion for the term was invented by Veronica Tudor Williams. It is used differently I've discovered in the USA to describe the recessive black.
I always look on Ivoss as our expert on inheritance and genetics!
-
I have heard from people that met some "fula blacks" descended down from Fula that apparently did not bleed tan in their coats and did indeed appear to be black and white. Those same people said that the same lines would also produce the pipless tris with the tan britches and on the backs of the ears. This is probably why in the US "fula tri" refers to barred tris with pips that seem to be producers of "fula blacks" which range from pipless tris with various amounts of tan to what appear to be recessive blacks.
There is now a test for recessive black so perhaps sometime in the future we will be able to better sort out what exactly we have genetically in basenjis and perhaps come up with some more clear terminology.
-
Ivoss - interesting about the people who did know of Fula 'whatevers' that didn't have tan - I'd be interested if you have any other information on their breeding.
When I get round to posting pictures I'll post one of my 'Fula' who people insisted was a black and white although I knew he had none in his background. You may be interested,
It's good to know that there is now a test for recessive black. My 'The Inheritance of Coat Colour in Dogs' by Little is obviously now well outdated.
-
Hello!
Once upon a time I was not.But I know how to inherit the color. -
http://www.kanibaru.com/2002pups.html
Sire Wazazi Dazzling Impact DD kk a^ya, Dd kk a^ya
Dam Wazazi Heavenly Vision DD kk a^ya, Dd kk a^ya
**Kanibaru Fula Love fula black recesiv
**
DDkka****a
Ddkka****a -
ok so i have a question. How do you figure out what your dog is? Everyone says my dog is …etc. mine is.... etc. but how do you know? How do you figure it out? I really want to try to figure out mine but i have no idea how to do it! :) this is very interesting to me, thanks for sharing :)
-
the only way to figure out if you've got any recessives or not is to go back and forth all throughout the pedigree and see what colors show up.
-
o ok. So if i go through and count all the reds, blacks, tris, trindles, brindles, and IF there is a fula, then I post that, is there a way someone could help me figure out what she is? This is the only thing that makes me not really understand this.
-
misspodhradsky
This is very simple
Enter your dog's pedigree , with which pedigree you want to connect. -
ok. So this is what i have found out by looking back at the pedigree of my girl.
MOTHERS SIDE starting with mothers color:
RD&WH (d)
BLK&WH(s) and RD&WH(d)
TRI (s), BLK&WH (d). and RD&WH(s),RD&WH(d)
RD&WH(s), TRI(d), RD&WH(s), BLK&WH(d)
and RD&WH(s), RD&WH(d),BRDL&WH(s), TRI(d)FATHERS SIDE starting with the color of the father:
BLK&WH (s)
RD&WH(s),*BLK&WH(d)
TRI(s),RD&WH(d) and ~BRDL&WH(s),~BLK&WH(d)
TRI(s),RD&WH(d),RD&WH(s), unknown(d)
and TRI(s), BRDL&WH(d), BLK&WH(s), unknown (d)- this dog has a black saddle
~ This dog has a black mask
(d) this is the mother (dam)
(s) this is the father (sire)
Ok. So I was just wondering what her coloring would be? How would you put her into that strange code lol. Just curious. Thanks. :) t would be interesting to know.
- this dog has a black saddle
-
I understand little English.Enter pedigree dog it will be easier for me
-
the pedigree of her mom and dad are not on there. I have the pedigree in paper form but its not on the Zande site. How do you put them on there? Im not sure how you go about doing that.
-
ok. So this is what i have found out by looking back at the pedigree of my girl.
MOTHERS SIDE starting with mothers color:
RD&WH (d)
BLK&WH(s) and RD&WH(d)
TRI (s), BLK&WH (d). and RD&WH(s),RD&WH(d)
RD&WH(s), TRI(d), RD&WH(s), BLK&WH(d)
and RD&WH(s), RD&WH(d),BRDL&WH(s), TRI(d)FATHERS SIDE starting with the color of the father:
BLK&WH (s)
RD&WH(s),*BLK&WH(d)
TRI(s),RD&WH(d) and ~BRDL&WH(s),~BLK&WH(d)
TRI(s),RD&WH(d),RD&WH(s), unknown(d)
and TRI(s), BRDL&WH(d), BLK&WH(s), unknown (d)- this dog has a black saddle
~ This dog has a black mask
(d) this is the mother (dam)
(s) this is the father (sire)
Ok. So I was just wondering what her coloring would be? How would you put her into that strange code lol. Just curious. Thanks. :) t would be interesting to know.
I don't really understand your question…but using your coding...how could a black/white dog have a black mask or black saddle?
As far as whether a dog carries "fula" genes or "recessive black" genes or whatever you want to call them, you can only know by what they produce (or if it is apparent)...my understanding is that if you have them genetically tested they show as genetically tricolored. Hopefully Lisa will jump in, because she has a bunch of knowledge about this topic.
- this dog has a black saddle
-
sorry i didnt make it clear. Im not sure how to ask it. lol Im just wondering everyone is talking about using codes like this : D - not dilute d- dilute
Y - Red y - tri
K - Black K^br - brindle k - neither black nor brindle
Red and White - DDkkYY, DDkkYy, DdkkYY, DdkkYy
Black and White - DDKkYY, DDKkYy, DDKkyy, DDKKYY, DDKKYy, DDKKyy,I was just wondering how everone figured out what their dogs were. What do the letters mean and how to you determine what your dogs "code" is. its an interesting topic to me and id like to learn more about it.
And no I understand the Fula thing. They have a fula puppy when the mom and dad arent black. I dont think there is a fula in the background. i was just wondering about the main "code" and i just wanted to see what she would be and how to determine it. I put the colors of the family tree above (which is the mumble jumble i had posted with only colors) these were the colors of the family for 3 years back. 1 one was her mom and dad. the second two were her grandparents. and so on and so forth.
its not a huge deal to figure out what she is, like i said it was just an interesting topic and people were saying what their dogs were and i just wanted to know what mine was :)
Oh and the black mask and black saddle were just on the AKC website under their numbers…they were the only 2 that said something like that so i included it just incase it was important. Maybe the others just never put it and these ones did or whatever but idk i just put what the information told me :)
-
sorry i didnt make it clear. Im not sure how to ask it. lol Im just wondering everyone is talking about using codes like this : D - not dilute d- dilute
Y - Red y - tri
K - Black K^br - brindle k - neither black nor brindle
Red and White - DDkkYY, DDkkYy, DdkkYY, DdkkYy
Black and White - DDKkYY, DDKkYy, DDKkyy, DDKKYY, DDKKYy, DDKKyy,I was just wondering how everone figured out what their dogs were. What do the letters mean and how to you determine what your dogs "code" is. its an interesting topic to me and id like to learn more about it.
And no I understand the Fula thing. They have a fula puppy when the mom and dad arent black. I dont think there is a fula in the background. i was just wondering about the main "code" and i just wanted to see what she would be and how to determine it. I put the colors of the family tree above (which is the mumble jumble i had posted with only colors) these were the colors of the family for 3 years back. 1 one was her mom and dad. the second two were her grandparents. and so on and so forth.
its not a huge deal to figure out what she is, like i said it was just an interesting topic and people were saying what their dogs were and i just wanted to know what mine was :)
Oh and the black mask and black saddle were just on the AKC website under their numbers…they were the only 2 that said something like that so i included it just incase it was important. Maybe the others just never put it and these ones did or whatever but idk i just put what the information told me :)
Those codes are a description of the genes of the dog. They are arbitrary letters given to alleles to describe a dog. I know someone out there has better terminology for what I am describing. A upper case letter describes the dominant allele, and the lower case the recessive allele. Each letter describes one gene on a chromosome. So in each pairing, if there is an uppercase shown (dominant), that gene is expressed, if there is no upper case (recessive), the alternate gene is expressed. Because in the example above there are three locations (or letters) discussed, they can act on each other…so black can mask red. And brindle can be present in any of the other combinations. I have not heard if we have identified dilute in Basenjis?
Am I helping you understand at all? or do you already get all this stuff?
-
And the fula thing is not that simple. In the US we describe a tri with bars through the cheek patches, with our without pips over the eyes, as a fula tri. And a black that may or may not (usually does) have some bleeding, or evidence of tan where the tan usually is on a tri, is called a fula black. These dogs may or may not come from two red dogs. But a genetically black basenji (Kk, or KK) cannot come from two red parents. And that is why most people feel that fula tris and blacks (at least as termed in the US) are genetically tri variations.
And seriously…this is not my area of expertise, so people correct me if I am wrong.
-
To put the pedigree on the Zande site, you just have to email what you know to the woman in charge of the site. (I forgot her name). She also can look up AKC info if you give that to her.
-
o ok i understand. Ya i mean i dont know ALOT about it, just as a general thing, i knew that a Fula black came from parents that were not black. I knew that in order to create a black puppy (not fula or recessive) it had to have a black parent. that is all i knew (or read anyways lol) and o ok i didnt know that. Ill have to contact the owner of the site and see if we can get them on there. Thanks!
but anyways does anyone have any idea how to help me? or answer my question?
-
Quercus. Thanks for trying to explain. it helped a little but i still dont really get it. How do you know which is the dominant and recessive? So if my girls mom is a red and her dad is a black. the dad will have a dominant K and her mom will have a dominate Y? And how do you add all the other letters in there? Your explaining is helping I believe tho. :) thanks so much for helping!
-
Quercus. Thanks for trying to explain. it helped a little but i still dont really get it. How do you know which is the dominant and recessive? So if my girls mom is a red and her dad is a black. the dad will have a dominant K and her mom will have a dominate Y? And how do you add all the other letters in there? Your explaining is helping I believe tho. :) thanks so much for helping!
Well, in the code notation, you know if the allele is dominant by whether it is upper case, or lower case. In real life, you know because you committed it to memory ;) based on someone else's research. I *know that red (Y) is dominant to tri (y) because of countless generations of that being the case with breedings.
So every being is given one set of alleles from the mom, and one from the dad, that come together to make an entire gene.
If your girl is red? right? the simplest assumption is that she is DDkkYY (pure for red)or DDkkYy(tri factored) So because we don't have dilute indentified in Basenjis all of the them should be DD, her dad had to be Kk because he gave her a recessive k, and her mom was clearly kk because she was red. Her mom and dad may have been RR or Rr, and we wouldn't know until a tri offspring popped out. If they were both Rr, they could both donate a r and end up with a tri puppy…that would look like this: DDkkYy
