Coat Color Inheritance in basenji

[lvoss]

There is not just one gene location that controls color there a many locations that control different aspects of color. The different locations have have been assigned letter designations to make talking about them easier. K is the letter for the location of the black, brindle, and neither alleles. A is the letter for the location of the Agouti (wolf color), sable (basenji red), tri, and recessive black alleles. D is the letter for the location of the dilution, not dilute alleles. E is the letter for the location for the masking, normal black extension, no black extension alleles. There are many others for things like ticking, graying, etc.

[misspodhradsky]

o ok. So how do you go about using the letters? like what do you do with them to help you relate to basenjis?

[lvoss]

This website give a pretty good overview of Canine Coat Color Genetics with pictures.

http://homepage.usask.ca/~schmutz/dogcolors.html

[Monika]

Ivos you will reply soon.I know how to inherit the colors.

[Patty]

As I've said before, Fula black is a misnomer. There were no blacks in Fula's line the correct term is 'Fula Tri'. From Fula's descendants tri-colours were born without melon pips and that is the correct definition of a Fula Tri. This is not my opinion for the term was invented by Veronica Tudor Williams. It is used differently I've discovered in the USA to describe the recessive black.

I always look on Ivoss as our expert on inheritance and genetics!

[lvoss]

I have heard from people that met some "fula blacks" descended down from Fula that apparently did not bleed tan in their coats and did indeed appear to be black and white. Those same people said that the same lines would also produce the pipless tris with the tan britches and on the backs of the ears. This is probably why in the US "fula tri" refers to barred tris with pips that seem to be producers of "fula blacks" which range from pipless tris with various amounts of tan to what appear to be recessive blacks.

There is now a test for recessive black so perhaps sometime in the future we will be able to better sort out what exactly we have genetically in basenjis and perhaps come up with some more clear terminology.

[Patty]

Ivoss - interesting about the people who did know of Fula 'whatevers' that didn't have tan - I'd be interested if you have any other information on their breeding.

When I get round to posting pictures I'll post one of my 'Fula' who people insisted was a black and white although I knew he had none in his background. You may be interested,

It's good to know that there is now a test for recessive black. My 'The Inheritance of Coat Colour in Dogs' by Little is obviously now well outdated.

[Monika]

Hello!
Once upon a time I was not.But I know how to inherit the color.

[Monika]

http://www.kanibaru.com/2002pups.html

Sire Wazazi Dazzling Impact DD kk a^ya, Dd kk a^ya
Dam Wazazi Heavenly Vision DD kk a^ya, Dd kk a^ya
**Kanibaru Fula Love fula black recesiv
**
DDkka****a
Ddkka****a

[misspodhradsky]

ok so i have a question. How do you figure out what your dog is? Everyone says my dog is …etc. mine is.... etc. but how do you know? How do you figure it out? I really want to try to figure out mine but i have no idea how to do it! this is very interesting to me, thanks for sharing

[etzbseder]

the only way to figure out if you've got any recessives or not is to go back and forth all throughout the pedigree and see what colors show up.

[misspodhradsky]

o ok. So if i go through and count all the reds, blacks, tris, trindles, brindles, and IF there is a fula, then I post that, is there a way someone could help me figure out what she is? This is the only thing that makes me not really understand this.

[Monika]

misspodhradsky
This is very simple
Enter your dog's pedigree , with which pedigree you want to connect.

[misspodhradsky]

ok. So this is what i have found out by looking back at the pedigree of my girl.

MOTHERS SIDE starting with mothers color:
RD&WH (d)
BLK&WH(s) and RD&WH(d)
TRI (s), BLK&WH (d). and RD&WH(s),RD&WH(d)
RD&WH(s), TRI(d), RD&WH(s), BLK&WH(d)
and RD&WH(s), RD&WH(d),BRDL&WH(s), TRI(d)

FATHERS SIDE starting with the color of the father:

BLK&WH (s)
RD&WH(s),*BLK&WH(d)
TRI(s),RD&WH(d) and ~BRDL&WH(s),~BLK&WH(d)
TRI(s),RD&WH(d),RD&WH(s), unknown(d)
and TRI(s), BRDL&WH(d), BLK&WH(s), unknown (d)

• this dog has a black saddle
  ~ This dog has a black mask
  (d) this is the mother (dam)
  (s) this is the father (sire)

Ok. So I was just wondering what her coloring would be? How would you put her into that strange code lol. Just curious. Thanks. t would be interesting to know.

[Monika]

I understand little English.Enter pedigree dog it will be easier for me

http://www.pedigrees.zandebasenjis.com/

[misspodhradsky]

the pedigree of her mom and dad are not on there. I have the pedigree in paper form but its not on the Zande site. How do you put them on there? Im not sure how you go about doing that.

[Quercus]

@misspodhradsky:

ok. So this is what i have found out by looking back at the pedigree of my girl.

MOTHERS SIDE starting with mothers color:
RD&WH (d)
BLK&WH(s) and RD&WH(d)
TRI (s), BLK&WH (d). and RD&WH(s),RD&WH(d)
RD&WH(s), TRI(d), RD&WH(s), BLK&WH(d)
and RD&WH(s), RD&WH(d),BRDL&WH(s), TRI(d)

FATHERS SIDE starting with the color of the father:

BLK&WH (s)
RD&WH(s),*BLK&WH(d)
TRI(s),RD&WH(d) and ~BRDL&WH(s),~BLK&WH(d)
TRI(s),RD&WH(d),RD&WH(s), unknown(d)
and TRI(s), BRDL&WH(d), BLK&WH(s), unknown (d)

• this dog has a black saddle
  ~ This dog has a black mask
  (d) this is the mother (dam)
  (s) this is the father (sire)

Ok. So I was just wondering what her coloring would be? How would you put her into that strange code lol. Just curious. Thanks. t would be interesting to know.

I don't really understand your question…but using your coding...how could a black/white dog have a black mask or black saddle?

As far as whether a dog carries "fula" genes or "recessive black" genes or whatever you want to call them, you can only know by what they produce (or if it is apparent)...my understanding is that if you have them genetically tested they show as genetically tricolored. Hopefully Lisa will jump in, because she has a bunch of knowledge about this topic.

[misspodhradsky]

sorry i didnt make it clear. Im not sure how to ask it. lol Im just wondering everyone is talking about using codes like this : D - not dilute d- dilute
Y - Red y - tri
K - Black K^br - brindle k - neither black nor brindle
Red and White - DDkkYY, DDkkYy, DdkkYY, DdkkYy
Black and White - DDKkYY, DDKkYy, DDKkyy, DDKKYY, DDKKYy, DDKKyy,

I was just wondering how everone figured out what their dogs were. What do the letters mean and how to you determine what your dogs "code" is. its an interesting topic to me and id like to learn more about it.

And no I understand the Fula thing. They have a fula puppy when the mom and dad arent black. I dont think there is a fula in the background. i was just wondering about the main "code" and i just wanted to see what she would be and how to determine it. I put the colors of the family tree above (which is the mumble jumble i had posted with only colors) these were the colors of the family for 3 years back. 1 one was her mom and dad. the second two were her grandparents. and so on and so forth.

its not a huge deal to figure out what she is, like i said it was just an interesting topic and people were saying what their dogs were and i just wanted to know what mine was

Oh and the black mask and black saddle were just on the AKC website under their numbers…they were the only 2 that said something like that so i included it just incase it was important. Maybe the others just never put it and these ones did or whatever but idk i just put what the information told me

[Quercus]

@misspodhradsky:

sorry i didnt make it clear. Im not sure how to ask it. lol Im just wondering everyone is talking about using codes like this : D - not dilute d- dilute
Y - Red y - tri
K - Black K^br - brindle k - neither black nor brindle
Red and White - DDkkYY, DDkkYy, DdkkYY, DdkkYy
Black and White - DDKkYY, DDKkYy, DDKkyy, DDKKYY, DDKKYy, DDKKyy,

I was just wondering how everone figured out what their dogs were. What do the letters mean and how to you determine what your dogs "code" is. its an interesting topic to me and id like to learn more about it.

And no I understand the Fula thing. They have a fula puppy when the mom and dad arent black. I dont think there is a fula in the background. i was just wondering about the main "code" and i just wanted to see what she would be and how to determine it. I put the colors of the family tree above (which is the mumble jumble i had posted with only colors) these were the colors of the family for 3 years back. 1 one was her mom and dad. the second two were her grandparents. and so on and so forth.

its not a huge deal to figure out what she is, like i said it was just an interesting topic and people were saying what their dogs were and i just wanted to know what mine was

Oh and the black mask and black saddle were just on the AKC website under their numbers…they were the only 2 that said something like that so i included it just incase it was important. Maybe the others just never put it and these ones did or whatever but idk i just put what the information told me

Those codes are a description of the genes of the dog. They are arbitrary letters given to alleles to describe a dog. I know someone out there has better terminology for what I am describing. A upper case letter describes the dominant allele, and the lower case the recessive allele. Each letter describes one gene on a chromosome. So in each pairing, if there is an uppercase shown (dominant), that gene is expressed, if there is no upper case (recessive), the alternate gene is expressed. Because in the example above there are three locations (or letters) discussed, they can act on each other…so black can mask red. And brindle can be present in any of the other combinations. I have not heard if we have identified dilute in Basenjis?

Am I helping you understand at all? or do you already get all this stuff?

[Quercus]

And the fula thing is not that simple. In the US we describe a tri with bars through the cheek patches, with our without pips over the eyes, as a fula tri. And a black that may or may not (usually does) have some bleeding, or evidence of tan where the tan usually is on a tri, is called a fula black. These dogs may or may not come from two red dogs. But a genetically black basenji (Kk, or KK) cannot come from two red parents. And that is why most people feel that fula tris and blacks (at least as termed in the US) are genetically tri variations.

And seriously…this is not my area of expertise, so people correct me if I am wrong.