It is very very difficult for a dog to get into the AKC without the owner applying for consideration and so far no one has completed the process. We have time. We arent in a big hurry. Sorry.
This is a very misleading statement. The only process for getting a Native Stock dog accepted is by following the process that BCOA has gotten approved by AKC. Also, there are several Native Stock dogs that have completed the process just none from the Benin region. That is not the same as "no one has completed the process". There are also time constraints since the studbook will only be open for 5 years, the maximum length of time AKC would approve.
I feel lost. You chose to breed basenjis that are not recognized by the AKC and/or bred the dogs for a project to introduce more genetic diversity? Have they been tested for fanconi? It smells somewhat fishy that you aren't divulging their health info.
Doing rescue, my concern is that folks are buying dogs they think are "basenjis" and in fact they are have not been approved for this breed.
Rose Marie, you are breeding african village dogs. You might breed them with basenjis, but then they are mixes. No matter what you decide to call these dogs, they are not approved by any BCOA board, and are NOT basenjis. If you decided to breed and sell african village dogs, then NO one could take issue with you..because your calling these puppies what they are. Why do you need to do this??
Doing rescue, my concern is that folks are buying dogs they think are "basenjis" and in fact they are have not been approved for this breed.
Rose Marie, you are breeding african village dogs. You might breed them with basenjis, but then they are mixes. No matter what you decide to call these dogs, they are not approved by any BCOA board, and are NOT basenjis. If you decided to breed and sell african village dogs, then NO one could take issue with you..because your calling these puppies what they are. Why do you need to do this??
First, If my dogs are African Village dogs so is yours. You dont have any room to speak here.
Second, I am tired of repeating myself, but here goes:
Apollo is UKC. Others have been approved by the UKC and registration is pending getting my act together.
Third, what should I call them in the ads? The ads have specific categories. If I wanted an African basenji, registered or not, I would look under Basenji. And I would be interested in them if I didnt already have them
Fourth, are you saying that all AKC nonregistered basenjis arent basenjis?
Fifth, and MOST important, my BUYERS know EVERYTHING about their purchase. No one else needs to at this time. If I thought for one minute they would listen, i would tell everyone, but as my having to repeat and repeat this stuff, it doesnt matter how often I say it. so I stopped.
Wow! Rose Marie, I must give you credit for stirring up the forum! I haven't been around this forum for years and years, so I don' know the history behind the African heritage… and truthfully, I don't think the controversy is worth re-hashing. If I'm that intersted, I can look up old posts.
I hope you can either post some pictures, or email them to me, so I can see your babies.
(Debbie, this better make you laugh, sister.... for this one is for someone who shares my sense of humor. In a whispering voice,
Rose Marie, if you want to get your dogs listed under the "Rescue and New Homes Wanted" topic, post them on your local Craig's List and I'll do it for you tomorrow.
BAAAHAAA HAAA! Again, that is a joke, to lighten up the tension here, my rooing friends!:);))
Patty
He he this is wny I am usually a mere spectator or nonentity here. Sadly, no one has come up with a new idea on this for 4 years.
I guess I could get a big raincoat with pockets and hang out in Times Square.
Marie
I wasn't going to wade in, but wtheck.
1. My experience is if you post an ad, either you post what is done or you don't post anything hoping for naive takers who won't know what to ask or where to look. Only people hiding things leave it out.
Nobody who gets a dog has any secrets held back
2. Tests don't guarantee, but if you test and things go bad, you did your job. If you don't test, then it's on you. Bottom line.
3. You really may want, as a breeder, to learn more about CHD.
I dont know what else you want me to learn since you dont know what I know.
I sure dont want to hear excuses about CHD.
So when I look at a pup, I look at all the sire/dam litter mates. It is why I require puppy owners, even of pets, to do OFA.
As part of teh Avuvi project the pups get OFA on my dime
And while Basenji's are low, with 3.2 abnormal, only 2252 have ever been tested! I can't tell you the breeds who declare "not a problem" and then with routine testing found it was triple the early stats.
Behind in Fanconi testing on dogs you are breeding? If so, well… passing it back to the Basenji breeders.
Yeah I am. I know of highly regarded breeders who were a breeding season behind, not bc they got laid off and had a million things to do and had to scramble or bc they had oops litters but bc they didnt bother to look at the years of education that went on before the test was available. I made a mistake. NONE of the original Avongaras or Avuvis had alleles so I made a bet. THEN Congo dogs came home with it and I pushed it way up in priority.
I did not willfully ignore the knowledge that was out there. You wouldnt DARE call this other breeder irresponsible but I know more than one pet breeder who was MORE responsible.
This is a very misleading statement. The only process for getting a Native Stock dog accepted is by following the process that BCOA has gotten approved by AKC. Also, there are several Native Stock dogs that have completed the process just none from the Benin region. That is not the same as "no one has completed the process". There are also time constraints since the studbook will only be open for 5 years, the maximum length of time AKC would approve.
Are you serious?? or just been hit on the head? YOU arent submitting dogs so what so you know about how people go about submitting dogs? And we WERE talking about Avuvis, so dont change the subject and pretend I am ignoring the accepted dogs.
Where does it say that we have to do this the minute the dogs hit the ground? I am not going to speak for the others, but I have a life to live which is rather busy at this time. And why should I even get them in? I am 55 years old. I have what I want in dogs. Yes I want to help the AKC dogs but if people like you dog on me because I havent done it yet, when there is plenty of time and plenty of other AFricans, and the ability to go back and register their pus after registration, that's just ignorant. Thankfully for my view of people, some are being hepful. You on the other hand tried to tell me I couldnt get my dogs in the UKC which was a filthy lie.
BCOA wasnt interested in publishing a summary of mine of what is known about DLA in dogs. Unless they took this idea and are running with it and didnt tell me. They ran it by someone else who said something like "cool, what is this" and it died there.
I hope BCOA gets on the ball with this via someone if not me before it is too late.
If we dont look into it, we dont KNOW if it is statistically significant. There is a way to test the breed as a whole or people can test their own dogs. Right now I am at the observation stage where I look at a severely inbred dog and say holy cow no wonder she had hypothyroid and no wonder no one else in the reverse or nonreverse pedigree does.
I feel lost. You chose to breed basenjis that are not recognized by the AKC and/or bred the dogs for a project to introduce more genetic diversity? Have they been tested for fanconi? It smells somewhat fishy that you aren't divulging their health info.
If you are interested in a pup all your questions will be answered.
I have already given a treatise to someone who WASNT serious and it was a waste of my time.
Marie
Anyone who is interested in a pup can contact me. Anyone seriously interested in my dogs and their decrepit health and lousy type and questionable heritage can also contact me privately.
I thought Id give the forum another try. So that's done.
Ta.
Marie
Are you serious?? or just been hit on the head? YOU arent submitting dogs so what so you know about how people go about submitting dogs? And we WERE talking about Avuvis, so dont change the subject and pretend I am ignoring the accepted dogs.
I haven't been hit on the head. I just know the process that was submitted by BCOA and approved by AKC and is viewable by anyone who chooses to at http://www.basenji.org/NativeStock/Application/BasenjiStudbookPetition.pdf
Registration if any (AKC, Basenji Clubs, etc): sire UKC. dam African import
Price: $400 to the right person/family mainly to cover additional tests for pups of Africans. Routine puppy tests and treatments included.
As for people knowing we were only talking about Avuvis, I didn't think that was very clear because you never actually stated in your post, see above, that these dogs were from the Avuvi group of imports and only those of us who know who who your dogs are pointed out that information. So others may get the idea from your post that no native stock has been approved through the accepted process.
Where does it say that we have to do this the minute the dogs hit the ground?
Never said you did. You have a 5 year window which is now past the half way mark.
You on the other hand tried to tell me I couldnt get my dogs in the UKC which was a filthy lie.
It is not a dirty filthy lie, it is what their website, http://www.ukcdogs.com/WebSite.nsf/WebPages/RegistrationLimitePrivilege, dogs without papers from another registry are not, according to their website eligible for full registration priviledges. There is NO published process for allowing Native Stock and no input from the fancy since basenjis do not currently have a parent club. If they do allow the registration of Native Stock it is only done through a process that noone in the fancy has any say and no one at UKC would ever confirm even existed.
I did not willfully ignore the knowledge that was out there. You wouldnt DARE call this other breeder irresponsible but I know more than one pet breeder who was MORE responsible.
You are almost incoherent sometimes so going to just use this quote and move on..
I would DARE call anyone irresponsible if I thought they were… you obviously don't know me.
As for your rantings... let us be real. Anyone KNOWLEDGEABLE wouldn't respond to your ad as they would already know what you are breeding. SO the unsuspected who would respond with the missing health info is what you hope for. Putting the testing isn't massive work, it is being left out for a reason ... obviously hoping no one asks the tough questions.
You are breeding dogs without doing the work first. No amt of dancing about "having time" covers it. Just say ... oh well I am breeding mutts and hope maybe one day I can get them accepted but if not, well I am happy to breed mutts. If these dogs could make it in, why wouldn't you do it before continuing to produce more dogs that may never be able to be registered? Just a thought. Doing things RIGHT means doing them right and you only fool yourself if you think this "I have plenty of time" is believed.
And for your crack about no new thoughts here... well honey you have no new thoughts either. Your crappola spewed about giving BUYERS the info is touted by puppymillers everywhere. Get over yourself that you are original. Original would be being forthright and upfront and transparent and (is there another way to say it?) whatever.
Say: I am breeding dogs that may not ever be registered stock, I am dragging my feet getting it done, I haven't done all the health testing, and I get offended and put down everyone else as idiots and unworthy of my time if they question me.
Now that would be original. 
Rose Marie..you wrote to me..
First, If my dogs are African Village dogs so is yours. You dont have any room to speak here.
My post you to. Excuse me. I talked to folks at the national re my girl and her help with the basenji breed. They liked the other dogs brought over, but my Miss Wheat was NOT to their liking. Guess What Rose Marie. I didn't just go head and breed her. I got her fixed.
Let me repeat. My girl would NOT be an asset to the new breeding project so I got her fixed.
You on the otherhand, have just added to the "littering" of dogs across the US.
Shame on you!!!
Taking down anything Ive ever said.
Once your around a bit longer, you will be able to see why this thread is so provoking for some of us. Doing rescue, its awful to me that this is breeding is going on.
I'm beginning to shut up more because the basenji people on this forum tend to tear you apart….OVER EVERYTHING...... its really a turn off for us younger basenji lovers.... the older, wiser tend to be rude, off putting, and down right snobby. Never in my life have I seen so many people start
I know there is a need to educate and correct, but it doesnt have to be done in such an attacking manner….
Of course, there are a few nice ones
So you look at the age of people to determine where they fit?
I am not even going to respond except to point out one obvious issue… your last sentence ... you don't take your own advice. Oh wait, if you are YOUNG, then whatever spews forth is professional education. Got it.
Well…. this is the holiday season, lol. Debra, I don't know if Benda meant "old" as in the age of the people on here, or if she meant old as "those who have been on this forum the longest".
I understood her comment to mean those who have been here the longest, and I agree with her sentiments. Sometimes, it seems like there is a group of people who rally around, with a pack-like attitude, of criticising and judging others. It bothers me, and I, too, hesitate to post anymore. You may notice that my posting of CL rescues has been "minimized", since I was publicly flogged for starting these threads.
While I did have the best intentions in my heart, my actions were miscontrued as if I was promoting for a profit. I explained why in that thread, so I won't re-hash it, but suffice it to say, if the motivation behind that attack was to stop me from reaching out, well, it worked.
Not everyone on this forum has to agree with each other, but I believe there should be mutual respect and politeness for all. We can, respectfully, agree to disagree.... or as Robyn has on her signature, understand there are many different shades of gray.
Cheers, and Peace to All!
Once your around a bit longer, you will be able to see why this thread is so provoking for some of us. Doing rescue, its awful to me that this is breeding is going on.
And I do agree with you Sharron
We can, respectfully, agree to disagree…. or as Robyn has on her signature, understand there are many different shades of gray.
Yay someone read my signature and understood what it means!
Taking down anything Ive ever said.
