Otis just nipped my son…

[Rita Jean]

It must go back to BYB and breeding for temperament. Seems to me when all else fails we blame the breeder but with that having been said I have to say Jaycee has never tried to bite anyone. (Maybe that is because of those awful uneven teeth that some seem to know so much about.) I have two (2) females Jaycee and Spice that eat out of the same food bowl at the same time no problems. As of a couple weeks ago Jaycee got a new baby brother and now there are three heads in a bowl and no problems. Even with those little baby teeth going after Jaycee she has never once tried to bite or be mean to the baby.

Rita Jean

[Quercus]

@Rita:

It must go back to BYB and breeding for temperament. Seems to me when all else fails we blame the breeder but with that having been said I have to say Jaycee has never tried to bite anyone. (Maybe that is because of those awful uneven teeth that some seem to know so much about.) I have two (2) females Jaycee and Spice that eat out of the same food bowl at the same time no problems. As of a couple weeks ago Jaycee got a new baby brother and now there are three heads in a bowl and no problems. Even with those little baby teeth going after Jaycee she has never once tried to bite or be mean to the baby.

Rita Jean

This particular thread and issue has no bearing on the dogs' breeding at all. Lots of dogs are resource guarders, from good breeders and bad…show dogs, not show dogs. Congrats on Jaycee being kind to the other dogs...I hope you find that they all continue to get along...you don't really see how things are going to shake down between dogs for about a year or more.

[tanza]

@Rita:

It must go back to BYB and breeding for temperament. Seems to me when all else fails we blame the breeder but with that having been said I have to say Jaycee has never tried to bite anyone. (Maybe that is because of those awful uneven teeth that some seem to know so much about.) I have two (2) females Jaycee and Spice that eat out of the same food bowl at the same time no problems. As of a couple weeks ago Jaycee got a new baby brother and now there are three heads in a bowl and no problems. Even with those little baby teeth going after Jaycee she has never once tried to bite or be mean to the baby.

Rita Jean

Breeding for temperament should be first in any breeding program, along with health. However, there are many people that "miss" clues given off by their pets that then lead to unacceptable behaviors. So I am not sure what the point of you comments are….

BYB's and PuppyMillers do not care about anything other then making a buck, period. So if they did have dogs with bad temperaments, they would not care and breed them anyway.

As far as eating out of the same bowl (not something I would do) it works till it doesn't.... and as far as Jaycee accepting the pup, again, it works till it doesn't...

The problem that Petra is having is not unique to just our breed. And I totally support that she knows and admits it is a problem and is determined to resolve the problem as soon as possible.

[Basenjimamma]

I don't know if it is the breeders fault, maybe I got him too late, meaning if he was brought into a home environment before 17 weeks he would've been socialized better, maybe not, no one can really tell.
Maybe I brought it out in him because I feed raw, some people argue that angle as well (not on this forum but other on other ones), or maybe he just needs to know his place..either way, we are working on it and if all else fail..we do what every body else seems to do..dump him and get a new and improved one….
I so hope y'all understand my sarcasm here..we are never upgrading our pets, we work with what we have and love them for who they are..

I am happy to hear that you have a new baby onboard, congrats. What color is he? Do you have any pictures of the three loving life together?

[Quercus]

@Basenjimamma:

I don't know if it is the breeders fault, maybe I got him too late, meaning if he was brought into a home environment before 17 weeks he would've been socialized better, maybe not, no one can really tell.
Maybe I brought it out in him because I feed raw, some people argue that angle as well (not on this forum but other on other ones), or maybe he just needs to know his place..either way, we are working on it and if all else fail..we do what every body else seems to do..dump him and get a new and improved one….
I so hope y'all understand my sarcasm here..we are never upgrading our pets, we work with what we have and love them for who they are..

I am happy to hear that you have a new baby onboard, congrats. What color is he? Do you have any pictures of the three loving life together?

Don't blame yourself! He is doing what dogs do naturally to control their resources…he just doesn't understand it isn't appropriate to do that towards people...and you have to admit, it would be hard to understand that as a dog. So you are doing exactly what you should, finding a way to explain it to him in ways that he can understand.

Oh, and feeding raw has NOTHING to do with it....don't even pay any attention to that rubbish!

[Rita Jean]

Jaycee and Spice have now as of 7th of March been eating out of the same bowl at the same time. The day we brought Jaycee home we let Spice know they were family I have done this all my life with all my dogs and if it's luck or gods help I do not know but it has always worked for us.

I did not think for one min that you were going to dump Otis as we all know that is not the answer for you or the dog.

Red and White yes there are lots and lots of pictures from the min I came in the door that night on my daughter takes pictures by the hour. Four flights later I got my boy home. Been really great to watch the two of them run and play. My old girl Spice loves him but she just cannot keep up but they do sleep head to head.

Wish you luck with Otis in my eyes it's like your children when we have them someone becomes master and the other slave. I have no great words of wisdom. I just know we have always had our dogs eat together and we free feed funny when one eats like a call they all go and get to eating.

Rita Jean

[renaultf1]

Rita…congrats on your new pup. What is his name and do you think you might show him? Oh and don't forget to post pics.

[nobarkus]

@Basenjimamma:

I don't know if it is the breeders fault, maybe I got him too late, meaning if he was brought into a home environment before 17 weeks he would've been socialized better, maybe not, no one can really tell.
Maybe I brought it out in him because I feed raw, some people argue that angle as well (not on this forum but other on other ones), or maybe he just needs to know his place..either way, we are working on it and if all else fail..we do what every body else seems to do..dump him and get a new and improved one….
I so hope y'all understand my sarcasm here..we are never upgrading our pets, we work with what we have and love them for who they are..

I am happy to hear that you have a new baby onboard, congrats. What color is he? Do you have any pictures of the three loving life together?

I don't know if you need to blame yourself for having brought it out in him Petra. He may just be that way and needs work. Dogs all have their different personalities like people. I rescued Buddy at approx 7 months old and he may have come from a BYB as he still has his dew claws. Who knows where he came from as he was wondering the streets of Highland,CA. So after a year he shows no sign of resource guarding as I have just reached and pulled bones from him with no reaction other than a blank stare and he's never growled at any other dogs. Just my 2 cents.

[renaultf1]

Petra…you can't blame yourself - many people have had the same issues with their dogs. You see you have a problem with Otis, you've admitted it now and you are seeking out help - and no doubt you'll follow thru with the training the behaviorist advises. It is all a learning process - don't beat yourself up, what good will that do anyway.

Good luck and keep us posted how he progresses.

[lvoss]

Petra, I just want to say, I think you are doing the right thing. You noticed a problem and you are getting help now before it escalates any further. The reason Otis has the problem really isn't nearly as important as the fact that you are doing all the right things to help work through that problem. Don't beat yourself up about it, just keep working with him.

Rita Jean, just because two dogs can eat out of the same bowl without fighting does not mean that either dog does not or cannot have an issue with resource gaurding. The item has to be of high enough value in the dog's mind to be worth gaurding. Food just may not be that valuable that warrants risking personal injury for that dog. The thing that catches most owners off gaurd about resource gaurding is that the dog will be fine with so many things and in so many situations until "all of sudden" they aren't because for whatever reason that thing at that time was in their mind worth gaurding. It works until they care more about having that thing.

[Quercus]

To add to what lvoss said, if things are changing in the dynamics of the pack, often a dog will start to guard things that they haven't before, just to make it clear to the other dogs where they think they stand regarding that particular resource. Often it isn't the dog with the highest status that does the most obvious guarding..it is often dogs in the middle, or dogs that are not confident with their status.

[tanza]

Well said Andrea.. and the more dogs you add to a pack, the more the dynamics change.. and it is usually really small changes that are very, very easy to miss even to the most experienced…

So, Petra, DO NOT beat yourself up over this... it happens....

To Rita Jean, as said, it works till it doesn't including free feeding... as in, would you free feed Human children? Pets/animals are no different. Structured feeding schedules set ground rules...

[Rita Jean]

Pat, my kids eat more or less when they want. If this makes me a bad mom o well. When I was at home we ate at 6:00 A.M. at Noon and 6:00 P.M. your one (1) min late your food is in the trash. I knew I would never raise my kids like that. Enough said as they say that's what makes the world go around we are all different and that is a good thing.

Rita Jean

[Nemo]

@lvoss:

The thing that catches most owners off gaurd about resource gaurding is that the dog will be fine with so many things and in so many situations until "all of sudden" they aren't because for whatever reason that thing at that time was in their mind worth gaurding. It works until they care more about having that thing.

I definitely agree with the "all of a sudden" type nature of resource guarding. Nemo has some guarding tendancies against other dogs now which I really didn't see much signs of early on. You don't always know what they consider "high value". Nemo went berserk on my beagle years ago over a dropped peanut. He would be fine with cooked chicken and lots of other things that you would think would be high value. It wasn't a behavior that escalated obviously over time, it just happened. But regardless now I watch them carefully and separate him and Zoni when they eat and even when we give them treats that could potentially cause an issue. And now I know what to look for. I definitely agree about the Language of Dogs DVD. Brenda Aloff's book is nice too.

[Basenjimamma]

just a update.

We went to the behavorist today and it went well. Otis didn't like going and kept on making very bark like noises..so funny..eventually we figured out he was seeing himself in a window reflection.
We are starting with feeding them in one area only as supposed to inside if it cold or outside if it is nice..She said we could feed in crates if we want to but make it one set place.
We are also starting in having them go to a specific spot, like their beds when we eat, no need to lock them up in crates just yet, she wants to see how he behaves if given this command, Moses will get the same treatment, and we are retaking obedience, even though Otis knows it well and follows through on most commands, a few he is not so good at, like come for instance, and she wants him to he very good at them so it gets to the point where we don't have to intervene, he simply knows not to touch certain items or come around the table when food is out or what have you.
She is very confident that we have gotten this early and that he should learn rather easily/quickly, so we'll see what happens.
I have also signed Moses up for ob class (again) so they are both on the same page and so are we, my hubby and I.
I know this won't be easy by no means, but feel confident that we are heading in the right direction..will keep you posted on how it goes..
Again, thanks for all your help, ideas, and insight..I love being part of this forum..

[nobarkus]

Very good job Petra! Consistency is the key. Keep us updated on how it's going.

[agilebasenji]

so much of things retraining the humans to new behaviors. i find myself sometimes backsliding on what i'm suposed to do.

glad to read things are looking up.

[tanza]

Great news Petra….. I am sure you will be able to resolve the issues...

[Patty]

It all seems very positive and hopefully you'll solve the problems with such good help.

[Basenjimamma]

We are still struggling with Otis and his unpredictable resource guarding, the other day he bit a friend of ours, more or less our dogsitter, so Otis knows him really well..
Otis and Moses got into it over something, don't even know what, and James tried to break it up, and got bit bad on his hand and fingers, the teeth even bit through two of his fingernails..either way, James knew not to try to break it up but his emotions took over and he did the wrong thing..he isn't mad/upset or anything but I am getting scared for our safety and more so for my kids safety.
Otis is scheduled for neutering party tomorrow morning..;) so I hope this will help as I am running out of options and more importantly time..not that I don't have time, but I am not willing to let this go on in our home much longer..
What should I do? Do you think neutering will help? What are my options if it doesn't?
He is doing better on the feeding and agression during those times, much better actually, but now it seems he is resourcing other things, like some toys, either the dogs toys or one that he got from the kids rooms..or shoes, now all of a sudden he is resource guarding shoes..is he reaching out to other things as he is now longer in control over the feeding tantrums he had?

Either way I am distraught and very saddened, I feel helpless..
Thanks guys