Could you give me your ideas on my dog

[dmcarty]

The picture that Pat posted above of the 2nd bitch you can see some of what we call 'fill' in front. because the front is where it should be and not set too far forward she has some chest - a front set too far foward will NOT fill in it is a structural flaw. In Africa one would wonder about the function of the front set that far up. Less room for lungs and less correct functionality of the front for reach.

Nice examples you provided Pat

[khanis]

Have you asked your breeder to give you some constructive criticism of her? That is the place to start.
Go to the EBC puppy practices… seee how she does.
She is a puppy, let her grow up and have the breeder look at her when she is a year and then 1.5 years old and see how she is looking then....
are you planning to show her?

[Ducati457]

Kathy I was the lady there at the Bremerton Show… You looked at her pedigree she's out of Dune's Pleistocene Hera, and Moonlight N Amber's Crash Bandicoot... The lady in Alaska... I do plan to show her... When is the EBC Puppy Practice? I'll look on the website to see if I can find information

[nomrbddgs]

Okay then, here's my opinion:
From what I can see, I like her head structure. I think her muzzle should be a bit shorter though, maybe 1/2 inch. I can't really tell unless you can get a top picture of her head. She has a nice solid topline. I like her tail curl, but I find the tail set a WEE bit low IMO.

She has a lot of white which will throw some things a bit off. Her neck length seems good (maybe a little long), but with the amount of white coming down the shoulder it gives the impression of a longer neck. You should be able to get a nice arch in the neck though.

The white on her upper elbows may give the impression of her throwing them out. Her upper forearm is a little short so she 'may' throw her legs out. (Windmilling) Her brisket is a bit small, but she is a puppy. She needs a chance to fill out a bit more.

It is harder to tell from pictures than seeing in person as you said, she didn't want to pose. I could be totally wrong by what I see in the pictures. So I would take it with a grain of salt and just love her up.

Her ears a large, but she may grow into them somewhat.

She's pretty square and she does have a nice hip and shelf. I can't see how her feet are splayed, but her front nails seem a little long which will give the impression of bad feet as well. Her back feet seem nice and tight, but again, I really can't tell from the pictures given.

Let's go back to her head. I can't really see the wrinkles in the pictures definitively. So I'll tell you what I see. I don't see side wrinkle, which we are losing in the breed. If you take another head shot, use bait or something she's interested in to prick up those ears! (Yeah, I definitely know it's not easy) And brighter lighting.

Overall she presents a nice picture. But again, I do tend to pick things apart and am brutal. She will grow a bit over the next two years and become more solid and fill in more IMO. She is a puppy and they tend to present a different picture now than in a year or two. If you are going to show her, she should do okay. I would tend to move her a bit slower because of the white and the elbows, but I also haven't seen her move either.

Also, please remember, everyone has a picture of what they like to see in a dog/bitch. My taste differs from someone else's. I'm still learning that although some people don't like my one bitch, she's a lot better than what I previously thought. This is really hard, but some people's opinions, especially those close to you, are not always the best ones.

[Basenjimamma]

As a strickt B lover and owner, I think she is beautiful. I too, like the ears larger rather than too small/

[dmcarty]

re: short upper arm - what typically goes with that is something that the dogs WILL NOT GROW UP OR OUT OF - that is the front assembly is too far forward - you will never have decent front fill but a hollowed our or cathedral front - there is WAAAAAAY to much of that in the ring now so if you have that and you see I'm on the judging panel - don't bring it to me please - it makes me very sad.

I would suggest that should anyone get the opportunity to attend a basic canine structure and anatomy workshop - take the time to go - it will help train your eye to look at what's under the skin.

[sharronhurlbut]

I have found that my basenji breed club is nice to share what I should watch for when we are sittling ring side.
They do it in a quiet manner, pointing out good fronts from those that need improvement.
Its very helpful to see the dogs move and get the clue as to what we should be watching.

[tanza]

@dmcarty:

re: short upper arm - what typically goes with that is something that the dogs WILL NOT GROW UP OR OUT OF - that is the front assembly is too far forward - you will never have decent front fill but a hollowed our or cathedral front - there is WAAAAAAY to much of that in the ring now so if you have that and you see I'm on the judging panel - don't bring it to me please - it makes me very sad.

I would suggest that should anyone get the opportunity to attend a basic canine structure and anatomy workshop - take the time to go - it will help train your eye to look at what's under the skin.

I agree…. and straight shoulders... way to much of that in the breed too...

And you might want to get the book The Basenji Stacked and Moving by Robert Cole. Another good thing is to get the DVD's from the Nationals and look at the dogs showing from puppies to Veterans....

[nomrbddgs]

I still think it's a good learner dog. Dukati457 will learn movement, structure, how to compensate for certain things that we see and can certainly guess what will happen, how to move the dog, etc. There are many things we are losing in the breed. What we are gaining are the straight shoulders, straight back leg, stop, almond eye, side wrinkles and chest. (to name a few) Some of overexaggerated the shelf as well. I have a bitch with an overexaggerated shelf, no stop, length, among other things. The more I go along, the more I learn as well.

[Quercus]

@nomrbddgs:

I still think it's a good learner dog. Dukati457 will learn movement, structure, how to compensate for certain things that we see and can certainly guess what will happen, how to move the dog, etc. There are many things we are losing in the breed. What we are gaining are the straight shoulders, straight back leg, stop, almond eye, side wrinkles and chest. (to name a few) Some of overexaggerated the shelf as well. I have a bitch with an overexaggerated shelf, no stop, length, among other things. The more I go along, the more I learn as well.

Arlene,

You mean we are losing stop? or we are getting too much?

I have never heard someone describe an overexaggerated shelf…same as I haven't heard of someone describe over angulated front..... I need a pic

[tanza]

@Quercus:

Arlene,

You mean we are losing stop? or we are getting too much?

I have never heard someone describe an overexaggerated shelf…same as I haven't heard of someone describe over angulated front..... I need a pic

I agree, I have never seen an overexaggerated shelf or front… Rear, yes and easy to spot because the front doesn't match the rear....

[nomrbddgs]

Andrea, here is what I consider losing the stop and an overexaggerated shelf.

This is my Damisi

You can definitely see the shelf is rather large. I always say she has lots of junk in her trunk!

Damisi Stop

I don't know how well you can see this Andrea, but it's a sloping stop. It kind of slopes into the muzzle instead of actually have a difinitive stop. I call it a banana head.

The next is of Shadow's stop. I don't know how well you can see it because of the black, but it's a definite stop.

Shadow is only going to be 6, but because of the trauma of his pain from his pinched nerve, he is already greying.

Here's a lighter picture of Shadow, I don't know if it will help.

Dukati457 all of this talk and pictures are just something to keep in mind when looking at ANY Basenji. The best advice I can give you is to (if you can manage) get to a BCOA National and look at the dogs there. You will know what you like eventually.

[sharronhurlbut]

These photos are very helpful. Thanks for sharing them.

[Quercus]

IMO, her shelf is nice…but she could use a little extra second thigh (I think that is term); it looks like the steep angulation in her lower leg doesn't compliment the nice angle of her pelvis.

I see what you mean about her stop...but from the side it looks nice. Luna's head was like that too...obvious stop from the side, but from the front, or oblique angle, it looked strangely smooth...I like the name banana head Her head looks a little domed, rather than flat on top...maybe that is giving the impression of no stop?

[Quercus]

@Quercus:

IMO, her shelf is nice…but she could use a little extra second thigh (I think that is term); it looks like the steep angulation in her lower leg doesn't compliment the nice angle of her pelvis.

I see what you mean about her stop...but from the side it looks nice. Luna's head was like that too...obvious stop from the side, but from the front, or oblique angle, it looked strangely smooth...I like the name banana head Her head looks a little domed, rather than flat on top...maybe that is giving the impression of no stop?

This was regarding Arlene's pics.

As far as Jazz…I think she is a decent bitch, and you should give it a shot to show her. As you know, it is hard to judge from pics alone...movement is so important. Depending on where you are, it might be difficult to finish her.

She also is very young, yes? So she will most likely grow into her ears. She has some faults, but nothing glaringly terrible, IMO. Also, IMO..she has more white than I would like to see on a show dog, and as Arlene mentioned, where her white is, might hurt her more than how much there is, because it exaggerates her short upper arm. But I would definitely give it a shot, if you are interested in showing. There are scads of nice and supportive people in your area, so give it a try

[nomrbddgs]

@Quercus:

IMO, her shelf is nice…but she could use a little extra second thigh (I think that is term); it looks like the steep angulation in her lower leg doesn't compliment the nice angle of her pelvis.

I see what you mean about her stop...but from the side it looks nice. Luna's head was like that too...obvious stop from the side, but from the front, or oblique angle, it looked strangely smooth...I like the name banana head Her head looks a little domed, rather than flat on top...maybe that is giving the impression of no stop?

I don't know Andrea, if you take her apart, her body is rather nice-in pieces. Her body does not match her legs. But take them away from each other and they are okay. Second thigh? Please explain, as I have never heard this before. Take note Dukati457-we are both learning something new here!

Yes, I hate the head. It is domed, which definitely hurts her-It's a Mankia head, which I don't like. It should be flatter. As someone else stated, if you can get one of Robert Cole's books, it goes through each section of dog.

Yup, Banana head!

[Benkura]

Also, please remember, that whatever anybody says about your/their dog - There Is No Such Thing As A Perfect Dog!!!!!

Give showing a go. It can be lots of fun, especially making new friends etc. But be warned, showing is addictive and expensive, it gets under your skin!
Have fun with her.

[nomrbddgs]

That's why I said to go ahead and give it a go too! Dukati457 will learn soooo much! And will soon be wanting another evil little devil-er, ahh, I mean, umm Basenji!

[Quercus]

@nomrbddgs:

I don't know Andrea, if you take her apart, her body is rather nice-in pieces. Her body does not match her legs. But take them away from each other and they are okay. Second thigh? Please explain, as I have never heard this before. Take note Dukati457-we are both learning something new here!

Yes, I hate the head. It is domed, which definitely hurts her-It's a Mankia head, which I don't like. It should be flatter. As someone else stated, if you can get one of Robert Cole's books, it goes through each section of dog.

Yup, Banana head!

I had to search a little for a good pic of second thigh, also called lower thigh, and also bend of stifle:

http://www.blog.cousinsweb.co.uk/2007/05/06/dog-anatomy/

Does Robert Cole call it banana head? I have his book, and studied it in detail, but it has been years since I looked at it IMO, it definitely is one of the best references around.

[Quercus]

@Benkura:

Also, please remember, that whatever anybody says about your/their dog - There Is No Such Thing As A Perfect Dog!!!!!

Give showing a go. It can be lots of fun, especially making new friends etc. But be warned, showing is addictive and expensive, it gets under your skin!
Have fun with her.

Also, remember that so much of it is opinion. If we all agreed on what the standard meant, all Basenjis would look exactly alike, and probably be terribly inbred…so room for variation is a good thing!