Pet Store Puppies - Problem

[gbroxon]

On some of the other non-Basenji forums I belong to, I close my eyes and pray when someone comes on with a question about what kind of puppy to get. I always say to myself, "Don't anybody suggest a Basenji. Don't anybody suggest a Basenji."

Can you tell I hate what happens when a dog breed becomes "popular"? It especially bothers me with Basenjis (wonder why, LOL!?!?!). They just ain't anywhere near typical to what the general public expects from a dog. I hate to even imagine what would happen if there was a "101 Basenjis" movie made. (Please, Powers-that-be, don't ever let them remake "Goodbye My Lady.")

I know, I'm crazy! :p

[ChaseandZahrasmom]

Isn't funny how many not your regular dog things that the Basenji has that we cringe about but in a sick twisted way we adore? My friends with normal dogs will never get it and our "normal" dog has been corrupted by our B! LOL!

While I got Zahra from a pet store I do agree with you about the popularity thing. I just don't think that this is the dog for everyone and they are certainly more of a challenge than a lab.

I did my homework on the breed (not the puppy mills, I know better now) when my husband started talking about getting one I researched it online and became fearful from all that I have read. When I saw her in the pet store I thought there was no way this adorable thing could destroy my house. Right. I type this as I sit surrounded by shredded papertowls and two dog coated in glue from a mouse trap.

[vstripe]

Speaking of dogs becoming "popular". I met a woman at the dog park with 4 B's who feels like they are becoming the new popular dog. I was just wondering if people in other parts of the country feel that way or if its just an LA thing.

[vstripe]

I understand why people are so protective about B's. Although recently I met a man who had gone to basenji rescue and said he was given the cold shoulder when he said he never owned a basenji. He ended up buying from a breeder and now is totally in love with his basenji that he has had for a few years. I wonder are we being too cautious?
My other two cents (sorry bored tonight)…
I read so many articles in dog magazines that are quick to point out how B's are so hyper, distructive, chew everything, are so difficult/stubborn and hard to train. Just by what is written in magazines I would never want a basenji. Why are they portrayed so negatively!
My boy is soooo layed back and mellow he is totally sweet to my dog walker/sitter the vet and the groomer. He is great with kids people of all ages great with other dogs knows a handfull of tricks does not do weird things with toilet paper/trash can or destroy my house does not make a big deal about water doesnt mind when I wake him or move him when sleeping. He is awsome with my other small pets. He's just a mellow go with the flow kind of guy (can you tell I'm a proud dog mom). I guess what I am trying to say is I feel like people are so quick to point out the bad traits in basenjis lets focus on the good! I long for the day that people dont make a face at me and say "oh I heard those dogs are crazy"< yes I hear that alote, and instead say "oh I hear those dogs are wonderful pets".

[Duke]

@vstripe:

I understand why people are so protective about B's. Although recently I met a man who had gone to basenji rescue and said he was given the cold shoulder when he said he never owned a basenji. He ended up buying from a breeder and now is totally in love with his basenji that he has had for a few years. I wonder are we being too cautious?
My other two cents (sorry bored tonight)…
I read so many articles in dog magazines that are quick to point out how B's are so hyper, distructive, chew everything, are so difficult/stubborn and hard to train. Just by what is written in magazines I would never want a basenji. Why are they portrayed so negatively!
My boy is soooo layed back and mellow he is totally sweet to my dog walker/sitter the vet and the groomer. He is great with kids people of all ages great with other dogs knows a handfull of tricks does not do weird things with toilet paper/trash can or destroy my house does not make a big deal about water doesnt mind when I wake him or move him when sleeping. He is awsome with my other small pets. He's just a mellow go with the flow kind of guy (can you tell I'm a proud dog mom). I guess what I am trying to say is I feel like people are so quick to point out the bad traits in basenjis lets focus on the good! I long for the day that people dont make a face at me and say "oh I heard those dogs are crazy"< yes I hear that alote, and instead say "oh I hear those dogs are wonderful pets".

I agree totally. I hadn't ever heard of this breed until after we had Duke in the house 4 mos. (He was abandoned) We brought this 12 week old whipper-snapper home determined to keep him. I wouldn't want this breed to be "popular" in the sense of the word, but it would be nice if the breed were known. i.e. the Jack Russell (Parsons) terrier is a known breed typed "hyper". Knowing that, I never in a million years wanted that type of breed. But, alas - I have that type in the Basenji breed. The positive characteristics about Basenjis are only known to the ones who adore and love them. My family couldn't imagine why I wanted another dog like Duke. (we just added a B-mix puppy into our family). They've only seen Dukes disposition when he was a 6-7 mo old pup. They haven't lived with him to discover his positive quirky side - the side that made me fall in love with him. That side is much bigger than the hyper.

[Quercus]

<>
That is great! But it is kind of unusual. I am not sure how old your Basenji is, but that is *really unusual if he is under three years old. I understand you rescued your dog, so if you ask the group that you rescued him through, I think you will understand why we don't want the general public to say "these dogs are wonderful pets" The Basenji *could be advertised as the perfect dog....they don't bark, they don't smell, they don't shed much, they are 'hypoallergenic', and they are a smallish dog with a bigger personality. That sounds great to a lot of people who don't really want a dog or one person in the family wants one, and the other doesn't. "oh, you won't even notice he is here, he doesn't bark, he doesn't smell, and he cleans himself!' So these people buy a puppy, and go thru all the normal puppy stuff, plus all the relentless basenji stuff. And as everyone assures them the destruction and the screaming in the crate will get better with age, it doesn't. And then maybe the dog starts challenging them as he reaches adulthood. They learn to cope with his "moods" and then they have a baby...the dog is threatened and nervous of the baby...bye, bye dog.
I tell people, we try to scare you away, and if you are *still interested, maybe you are a good match for a Basenji. And, I won't start telling people any differently, because I want to make sure they are FULLY aware of what they *could be getting into. Some Basenjis really *are the perfect dog...but the majority are not the type of dog that someone who wants an *easy dog is looking for.
Hopefully you have or read thru the forum and realize how many problems there are with dog/dog interactions in Basenjis, personal space issues, waking while sleeping, destruction, crate issues. These are issues that can be dealt with a lot of training...but most people don't want a dog that is a "fixer upper". I don't mean people like us, people that ended up here....we like a challenge
I love it when people admire my dogs...they always ask about them, and when I give my warning, they are shocked because my dogs are acting adorable and sweet. My family, on the other hand, knows my dogs very well...and they often say 'that seems like an awful lot of work'...why not just have one sweet lab?

[bellabasenji]

I do enjoy "educating people" on this breed, as Basenjis are not popular in WV. I will tell people all about the history, characteristics (positive and possibly negative), colors, and temperment. I always say how good Bella is but point out that early socilization is a factor in that. She is so good with people and other dogs! I also tell people that they need a lot of patience since this is a strong willed breed. I also tell them a good sense of humor is a must!

[Quercus]

<_>

I thought I would put this in a separate post Magazines, and their like, are known to generalize. I would say the above description is not accurate mainly because Basenjis are NOT hyper, nor are they hard to train. Basenjis can be busy, but it is always with a purpose…not like JRs...perpetual motion machine. And Basenjis are REALLY easy to train using positive reinforcement techniques...what is hard is to get them to comply when they don't see anything in it for them. Or when they are focused on something other than you. I think magazines use these words because they feel the public will understand them.

More appropriate description of a basenji would be 'independant thinker, who wants to be part of the family, and will show his displeasure at being separated. Needs a human family who is comfortable setting boundaries, and giving gentle structure. Positive reinforcement training a must. Never reliable off lead. Needs tall, secure fence. '

How is that? ;)_

[Quercus]

@bellabasenji:

I do enjoy "educating people" on this breed, as Basenjis are not popular in WV. I will tell people all about the history, characteristics (positive and possibly negative), colors, and temperment. I always say how good Bella is but point out that early socilization is a factor in that. She is so good with people and other dogs! I also tell people that they need a lot of patience since this is a strong willed breed. I also tell them a good sense of humor is a must!

Oh, yes, I forgot that point…sense of humor...and ability to laugh at oneself:)

[nomrbddgs]

I love my B's, all 3 of them! But, they are a challenge and you always have to be one your toes. Most people don't have the patience for them and expect them to 'behave' and get made when they don't, and always blame the dog for the trouble they have initially created. I find age isn't a factor for them. When you think they're past all the destructiveness, willfullness, and stubbornness, they come up with something new. Expect the unexpected. I tell some people about Basenji decoration techniques and they think I'm nuts to have one never mind three. But I love them and would never consider not having at least one….two.....more???

[StellaGirl]

OK as we all know i got Stella from Petland in Cleveland.I can tell you what happens to the puppys that are not bought. Hunte Kennel Corp> ,or Quality Dog the two comps. that Petland gets puppy from will take back the puppys and ship them to other stats to flea markets if they are not sold after 1 -2 weeks they are put down. I have also work for the APL in S. ohio and we tried to get both hunte and q d closed but they are just to big. You know i say never buy a dog or a cat from a pet store but what about all the other pets that are in there. I have seen live Rats thrown in to freezers to be killed while they are healthy and alive pet stores make me sick! But i am still using them to get my dog toys and bowls and stuff. if any one has any ? on hunte or Quality Dog (QD) please e mail me or pm me i have lots of info on both that i cann tell you .

Thanks for all your help w/ my Stella and reading this

Shannon

[Quercus]

<_>

What is APL? And yes, Hunte is big..and actually operating completely legally, and cleanly. Ethically? I guess that depends on where your ethics lie…I think it may be time for domestic "pets" to be separated from dometic "livestock" so that dogs and cats cannot be treated in the same manner as cattle and pigs...but that is a whole 'nother ethical argument

The only way to shut this industry down, at this point is make it so that people DON'T buy from pet stores (I do mean stores that sell dogs and cats here). Even supplies, the money still goes in their pocket. If we educate the public about how to find puppies, kittens, cats and dogs, we can end mass pet production. Even if people have to turn to irresponsible backyard breeders, that IMO is better than mass puppy producers. At least a lot of backyard breeders take good care of the breeding stock, unlike the mass prodcuers.

Anyhow, that is absolutely disgusting about the rats in the freezers....that should be reported, as I am SURE that is not condoned by the management...or at least, Gawd, I hope not!_

[StellaGirl]

Andrea the APL is the Animal Protective Leauge. And the rats were done by the owners othe the store a another reason i had to leave. I have called Peta and the dog warden i just dont know what to do. My hands are tied. My husban says my heart is to big for me and i cant save everything, and i know that. I just do what i can. Oh by the way i rescue wild animals and my be just loves the baby squarils <how ever="" you="" spell="" it="">The sad thing about Petland in Cleveland heights is that the 2 owners and i was realy good friends and now i see how they are w/ the animals they tell me " It's just stock I can get more" I started at petland the day they opened jan 16th of 06 the 1st two weeks we were open we had 63 dogs dieI should have known. as of last week my friend still works there the dead dog tally is 250! I cant see how she does it. i have had dogs i have brought home cause they were sick when i worked at the pet store that have died in my arm or over night in my house i still cry over those puppys im not a vet but they made us take them home or they would stay at the store in those cages my pet rats HAVE better cages so do my other animals so to keep harping on this its just been on my mind since i got Stella my B.</how>

[lvoss]

@Quercus:

The only way to shut this industry down, at this point is make it so that people DON'T buy from pet stores (I do mean stores that sell dogs and cats here). Even supplies, the money still goes in their pocket. If we educate the public about how to find puppies, kittens, cats and dogs, we can end mass pet production. Even if people have to turn to irresponsible backyard breeders, that IMO is better than mass puppy producers. At least a lot of backyard breeders take good care of the breeding stock, unlike the mass prodcuers.

Here in Northern California there are very few pet stores that sell dogs and cats. Part of the reason is that the news media here used to run lots of segments on puppy lemon laws, pet stores, and puppy mills. I remember one story where they talked about a pet store owner who was selling her golden retrievers at her store. Her female was dysplastic and almost every puppy produced was dysplastic and needed hip replacements to live without pain. The puppy buyers got together and sued her for the cost of the hip replacement at $2000/ joint. People here seem to be more aware of where pet store puppies come from.

[lvoss]

@vstripe:

I read so many articles in dog magazines that are quick to point out how B's are so hyper, distructive, chew everything, are so difficult/stubborn and hard to train. Just by what is written in magazines I would never want a basenji. Why are they portrayed so negatively!

Because as Andrea says, if you read all the potential negatives and you are still interested you are less likely to give up the dog in the future. Basenjis can be active, do require regular exercise, are not 100% reliable off leash, love to chew, are incredibly persistent about getting something they want, and can require more personal space than other breeds. Not all basenjis will have all the traits but you don't know what combination you will get. My experience is people will either love the breed or hate the breed with very little middle ground. I require all people thinking about getting a dog from me to visit with my dogs and encourage them to visit with other people's basenjis too so they can see the variety of personalities and traits in the breed.

[lvoss]

As for the person being turned down by rescue. Most rescues are very picky about their placements and some are quite inflexible about their requirements. 3 of my 5 puppy buyers had bad experiences with basenji rescue. One of those is a family I helped place a rescue basenji with 5 years ago and now has one of my puppies. One of the others was turned down because he was a college student. This same person visited my house 4 times so that he could meet my requirement that all people in the house meet the breed and agree to having the dog. But it is not just rescue, I also had 2 puppy buyers that admitted to having been a bit turned off by other breeders. One of them between the bad rescue experience and the other breeders had actually decided they were going to look for a different breed but didn't want to cancel their visit with me. The bad experiences with breeders centered around requirements that the puppy be shown and no explanation about how or why the breeder would select which puppy went to which home.

I also know that some people that have contacted me very well could have ended up getting dogs from BYBs. Some were inflexible about my requirements that companion puppies be spayed/neutered, that I do not let people just come over and pick whatever puppy they want, and I screen homes before placing people on a waiting list. For some people they consider all of this intrusive and just want to buy a puppy like they would a gallon of milk.

[StellaGirl]

I also know that some people that have contacted me very well could have ended up getting dogs from BYBs. Some were inflexible about my requirements that companion puppies be spayed/neutered, that I do not let people just come over and pick whatever puppy they want, and I screen homes before placing people on a waiting list. For some people they consider all of this intrusive and just want to buy a puppy like they would a gallon of milk.
When i got my Vizsla from my breeder i had to wait and she came and looked at my house and my other dogs, she did all kinds of stuff. It did not bother me one bit im glad she did i know i was getting a good dog and if i am paying 1,000 for a dog i want it to be a good one. Also he will be the 1st dog i have ever shown i cant wait. I dont know if i can do a show w/ my B once i get her fixed . but i dont care she and my Vizsla are my kids since i lost my baby when i was 5 mnths preg and now i cant have kids so my dogs are my kids

[Quercus]

<<my experience="" is="" people="" will="" either="" love="" the="" breed="" or="" hate="" with="" very="" little="" middle="" ground.="">>

That actually hasn't been my experience. I meet lots of people that really like a lot of things about the breed, but realize they just aren't a good match for their lifestyle. I think everyone I have ever met loves the way they look. The only people that I have met that have preconceived notions about basenjis being "bad" are other dog people ;)</my>

[lvoss]

I guess I should have clarified a little. People who come to meet my dogs and spend enough time with them to see their quirks usually either love them or really don't like them. People who see them in passing admire many qualities about them and recogonize they are not the dog for them. But people who have lived with them have a very strong response one way or the other.

[Duke]

I think the general population does not know what a Basenji is. The people who call Basenji breeders know or have an idea what it is or think they'd like to have one. Some people just want to "rescue" a dog, which is what I did. I thought Duke was a little mutt. There was nothing about him that I recognized as being a type of mix. Some people see the Basenji in the window at the mall and buy it because it's little and cute. (the pet shop & puppymiller's cash in quick) Then the buyer learns from experience if this is the dog for them. In many cases, it's not and the pet shop pup ends up needing to be rescued. If more people knew what Basenjis are, decisions about acquiring and screening wouldn't be as difficult as it seems to be. IMO the Basenji Breed clubs might want to think about a strategic public relations campaign. (get a Basenji on a TV show or in a movie like the JRT on Frazier)