Dew C;aws

[agilebasenji]

Re performance dogs and removal of dewclaws:

Digital, my brindlewonderkid, had his removed. He is 12.5 years old and still active in agility. (although now he is doing a lower jump height) I would guess I've averaged about a weekend a month at an agility trial for the last 10 years. (yes, 10 years, i can hardly believe it myself, but we did start competing in 99.) Add to that training time (which has slowed over the past few years). And he has been an active coursing dog (muliple best in field dog). In fact, he and Jet the tri-ing ran Mother's Day weekend. Sort of a second puppyhood if you will. He ran twice, enjoyed himself and the next day he was out in the yard playing with the malinois. I expected to see some stiffness, but no. I also ran him one fun run in Shawnee 3 or 4 weeks ago. Both coursing and agility put a lot of strain on the pasterns and I haven't seen any sign of soreness or arthritis in Digital or Jet.

Jet is 11.5 and has also done coursing and agility, but not quite to the extent of Digital. His dewclaw was not totally removed and he did have to have surgery on it last year, but it does not seem to bother since.

Both dogs started getting joint suppliments around 7 or 8 years of age as a preventative measure.

I do know that several people who lure course dogs with dewclaws are careful to wrap them before running the dog. I also have heard the argument that the "thumb" is an important accupunture point and that the dewclaw is useful when the dog is running full out. BUT, I also have a friend who was out hunting once and a dog got it's dew ripped off, all the way up the leg and the dog bled out before they got it to the vet. That's hearsay, so you may or may not want to believe it, but based on my own dogs, I'd have say removing the dewclaws has NOT be detremental to their performance.

[noodle]

I had my puppies dew claws removed at 4 days old. Unfortunatley, the vet went in too deep with one of them. As a concequence the toe next to where the dew claw would have been did not grow correctly. It was a complete nightmare, caused many sleepless nights and ruined a potential show dog. I have to say I have learned a lesson the hard way and will not be having them removed again.

[tanza]

@noodle:

I had my puppies dew claws removed at 4 days old. Unfortunatley, the vet went in too deep with one of them. As a concequence the toe next to where the dew claw would have been did not grow correctly. It was a complete nightmare, caused many sleepless nights and ruined a potential show dog. I have to say I have learned a lesson the hard way and will not be having them removed again.

Wow…. I have never heard of that happening... I have seen case where they were not removed totally and they grew back...

[moetmum]

I had my pups dew claws removed but I had to talk my vet into doing it, its against their policy, if I ever had another litter, which is highly unlikely, on reflection I wouldn't do it again, there are quite a few over here who still have their dew claws, they all seem to be ok.

I don't think that all breeders that leave them on are backyard breeders its more of an ethical decision for some.

I am really sorry Noodle that you had such a horrible experience, I have never heard of that happening before.

[irena]

I have never heard about removing dew claws. All our basenjis (and also all Czech basenjis) have their dew claws and use them, for example for chew how Benkura said. I have never heard that some basenji had problem with dew claws.

[Borbasuk]

Ezri still has her dewclaws. She's the first one I have had with them. Her breeder is not a show person and when her vet didn't want to do it she didn't argue. Ezri has very neat small ones that sit close to her leg; I have always kept them knocked back very short and I don't think judges ever notice them (she does have lovely feet, maybe the two go together). On the other hand she never uses them to hold or chew things as others have noticed theirs doing.

[Maya]

Maya doesnt have hers and from a purely cosmetic point of view, i think the legs look so much cleaner without them. If i ever had a litter i would have the dew claws off.

[Borbasuk]

It does depend on the dog, some might have rather large and noticeable ones; Ezri's are very small and neat and I don't think her legs look any less clean with the claws on than my others do without them.
My preference would also be to take them off but it's doubtful if we will be permitted to do so much longer.

[Maya]

@Borbasuk:

It does depend on the dog, some might have rather large and noticeable ones; Ezri's are very small and neat and I don't think her legs look any less clean with the claws on than my others do without them.
My preference would also be to take them off but it's doubtful if we will be permitted to do so much longer.

I certainly hope we can :eek:

With basenjis it might just be down to the breeders personal preference as to whether they take them off or not, but with pugs the majority of good breeders do because they have the risk of causing eye injury. Like basenjis, pugs tend to wash their faces with their paws - large eyes and dew claws dont go well together in that situation :rolleyes: I've heard of a lot of pugs scratching eyes with dew claws - not nice!

[basi]

@Borbasuk:

It does depend on the dog, some might have rather large and noticeable ones; Ezri's are very small and neat and I don't think her legs look any less clean with the claws on than my others do without them.
My preference would also be to take them off but it's doubtful if we will be permitted to do so much longer.

I agree with that. Belle has really neat ones but I have seen some really ugly ones while showing abroad. I have to say Belle never uses them for anything, maybe because they are so close to the leg they are of no use i don't know as never had one with them before. I had a discussion with my vet here about them, and they no longer remove them and have heard of other vets saying the same thing, so I think it will come that they will no longer be allowed to be removed.

[Borbasuk]

@Maya:

I certainly hope we can :eek:

So do I, but I fear it's only a matter of time.

I was a little concerned when I found out that Ezri had not had hers off, but she was two weeks old by then and nothing to be done about it; as it has turned out I've been reassured by how much they are noticed (i.e. not at all) and that they have been no trouble.

[tanza]

So, here is a question… what are the rules regarding dogs that have cropped ears and/or tails for showing in Europe if they come from the US? For some reason I seem to remember hearing that they can not show in some parts of Europe? Or all parts? While I do not like ear or tail cropping and glad that our breed is not cropped, I wonder since it is still common practice in the US what happens if they (or can they) go to Europe to show.

And I agree, I think the leg looks much cleaner without the dew claws... again, that is personal opinion.... I could deal with it either way, but prefer having them off.

[basi]

@tanza:

So, here is a question… what are the rules regarding dogs that have cropped ears and/or tails for showing in Europe if they come from the US? For some reason I seem to remember hearing that they can not show in some parts of Europe? Or all parts? While I do not like ear or tail cropping and glad that our breed is not cropped, I wonder since it is still common practice in the US what happens if they (or can they) go to Europe to show.

And I agree, I think the leg looks much cleaner without the dew claws... again, that is personal opinion.... I could deal with it either way, but prefer having them off.

I can only speak for Germany but you can't show a dog that has had it's ears cropped and only dogs that are used for hunting in accordance with German law for the protection of animals, can be shown with docked tails.

[JISGARD]

@noodle:

I had my puppies dew claws removed at 4 days old. Unfortunatley, the vet went in too deep with one of them. As a concequence the toe next to where the dew claw would have been did not grow correctly. It was a complete nightmare, caused many sleepless nights and ruined a potential show dog. I have to say I have learned a lesson the hard way and will not be having them removed again.

Poppy still has hers and I do not think they detract in any way, we as most breeders in the past used to remove them ourselves from our litters, but I would not do it again if we every bred in the future.

The main problem I have seen with them is where they have not been cut deep enough leaving part of the joint.

[Borbasuk]

You can't show cropped dogs, full stop. The rules for docked dogs are a little complex so I pulled this off the KC website:

Docked Dogs

Dogs which were docked before 6th April 2007 (28th March for shows held in Wales)

If your dog was docked either in the UK or in a foreign country before 6th April 2007 (28th March for shows in Wales) then it may compete at all Kennel Club licensed events.

Dogs which were docked on or after 6th April 2007 (28th March for shows held in Wales).

If your dog was docked on or after 6th April 2007 (28th March for shows held in Wales and irrespective of where it was docked) it will not, under the law, be permitted to be shown at any show in England or Wales where the public are admitted on payment of a fee.

However, if your dog was legally docked either in the UK or in another country on or after 28th March/6th April 2007, you will be permitted to compete with it at:

(a) all shows held in Scotland

(b) all shows held in Northern Ireland

those shows held in England and Wales where the public do not pay to be admitted.

Shows where the public are admitted on payment of a fee

All shows which charge the public for admission must state this on the show schedule and entry form - but you should check carefully whether or not your dog is eligible before entering.

[Borbasuk]

@JISGARD:

The main problem I have seen with them is where they have not been cut deep enough leaving part of the joint.

I haven't had this happen to me but have heard from others that have. One of mine has a very long and wide scar from pad to pastern joint, fortunately on dark skin and it doesn't show.

I am actually very much against dew claw removal being banned, not because of anything to do with Basenjis or the show ring, but because I remember my neighbour asking me to go round and cut her Shih Tzu's nails when her vet (not mine I am pleased to say) who usually did them was on vacation. I asked if she had dew claws; Debbie said no. Well, I looked, and not only did she have them but they had grown right round into her leg. It was one thing that the owner hadn't noticed that she had dew claws. That the vet she had been paying large wodges of cash to cut the nails for her hadn't noticed either was really rather shocking.

[Lovelace]

I didn't even think to look? Any idea what dogs have them for? Probably for holding prey in the wild?

[tanza]

I totally agree about long haired dogs and dew claws… people don't even look or check them... and there are so many stories about them growing around and back into the leg.... at least on a short haired dog you can see them...

[Patty]

In my opinion it is cruel to remove the toe. I have never removed my dog's dewclaws and never will as they are a useful appendage to them when holding anything (such as bones). When running flat out they go down onto that toe (remember that it is not just a claw that is removed but the whole toe). I can appreciate that if the nails were not cut there is a possibility that they would grow too long but have never experienced that. The same is true of the other nails they could cause a painful foot were they not clipped.

It is a painful procedure (my vet who is also an experienced breeder of once normally docked dogs tells me that it is more painful than docking the tail). I would never put my puppies through the experience.

In my years of showing I have never had a judge comment on the dew claws and my dogs have not knowingly been penalised.

They have always lived quite a natural life and travelled through all sorts of terrains (including dense bush and forests) without any damage.

I appreciate that many have different opinons and it would seem that in the USA it is the norm as it is in the UK to have the dew claws removed. I think that our KC may be on the way to banning the removal of dew claws which seems to me is a logical move since they have banned tail docking.

I have had one instance of a damaged dew claw but also my present old bitch has only three toes on her hind leg because she badly injured it while climbing a 6 foot panel.

[tasha]

@basi:

They do feel it but it doesn't last long.
IMO it is much kinder for them at 3 days to have them removed rather them tear them while an adult and have them removed and try to heal.

Amen to that!

Our dog Buddy who is an all American mutt kept ripping his nails off of his dew claws and the vet finally said 'let's just remove them'. Not only were all those incidents painful for him, having them removed was very hard on him. It was painful and after the bandages came off you could tell that he was a very sad that his toes were gone.

Corky on the other hand came from a pet shop who got him from a byb, still has his.

Before anyone slams me, we are reformed and have fostered puppies and made up for our pet shop buying mistakes.