Dew C;aws

[tanza]

@Benkura:

I think this post is really interesting. It really shows the difference between US breeders & UK breeders. I also think it is unfair to call breeders who leave dewclaws on BYBs! I have 4 Bs and only one has no dews. I have bred a litter and left the dews on as I see no reason for removing them. I won't be removing them in future either! As Basi says it is likely to be made illegal to remove dew claws in the UK.

Yes, I agree about dogs born other then the US… however in the US, it is still standard practice to have dew claws removed, so in the US 99% of puppies that have dew claws have come from a Puppy Mill or BYB

[nkjvcjs]

@Benkura:

I have 4 Bs and only one has no dews. I have bred a litter and left the dews on as I see no reason for removing them.

Do your B's use their dewclaws?

I totally understand that dewclaws have become a simple, visual way to distinguish between a breeder who has put a lot of work and money into a litter, and a breeder who has not.

The AKC standard says "Dewclaws are usually removed" which would support breeders who want to be successful in the conformation ring removing dews. Do internationally bred B's who still have dews win in conformation?

If you had asked me before I got Katie, I would have said, definitely take them off. No question. I had never seen a dog use them before Katie. Now I am not sure where I stand, which is why I am trying to learn.

Does anyone have any thoughts on the article I linked to? The vet who wrote that article is the same one who wrote "Early Spay-Neuter Considerations for the Canine Athlete" Which has gotten a lot of attention lately.

Has anyone ever had or heard of carpal arthritis or wrist problems in one of their dogs? I assume coursing would put a ton of pressure on the wrist, so if veteran coursers with no dews are running for 7 or 8 years and not having wrist issues, then I would assume it to be a rare problem in B's.

-Nicole

[tanza]

I have never known a B to have "wrist" issues due to having dew claws removed. But I have seen especially coursing ripped and injured B's that still had dew claws…. since there have recently been many breeders that have imported from overseas (and exported overseas).. that we are seeing more even in the US with dew claws since it is not legal to have them removed and yes they win in conformation. Of course the ones that are exported, have had them removed one of course being Millie..... who is a pretty top winning B in Europe

[lvoss]

All of my basenjis have had their dew claws removed. My 11 year old is still coursing and has no issues with his wrists. My 8 year old is also coursing with no problems and has been in the ASFA Top Twenty for the last couple of years. I know other veteran coursers who doing well without signs of issues. I will also say that as a breed basenjis hold up a whole lot better than other breeds. I know many dogs of other breeds who have recurring issues and many are retired before they reach veteran age.

I got Nicky a chiropractic adjustment at 9 years old because he was dropping his tail. The chiropractor couldn't believe he was 9 years old and it was his first adjustment ever. He only needed two minor adjustments and he hasn't been dropping his tail since.

[Benkura]

My Bs use their dews. The 3 that have them find it much easier to chew on a bone for example than the one who has had them removed.

I treat them like all the other claws and clip them from an early age so the Bs are used to it. The one B with no dews HATES having his claws cut - maybe because of the trauma of having his dews removed?? Who knows?

As for the showring, 'Chance' my new champion has his dews and his mother - she has 2 CCs - and his brother Trouper - he has one CC. I don't think it makes much difference in the UK.

Friends of mine have only just stopped coursing their dogs (due to age) and they have their dews and have not experienced problems.

[tanza]

My personal opinion is that I would rather have them removed…. but that said, if it became normal practice in the US to leave them, I would not have a problem with it... same as if I got a pup from overseas that had them. Of course it is one more "claw" to keep trimmed...ggg, but at least on a short haired dog you can see them...

[nobarkus]

Mine still has his. My others had them removed. I will just have to keep it trimmed.

[etzbseder]

Medjai still has his dew claws. I haven't payed much attention to if he uses them or not, but when he cleans his eye goup, that might be easier. He hasn't had any issues with them running around at the park, playing with dogs, digging, or doing anything else.

[agilebasenji]

Re performance dogs and removal of dewclaws:

Digital, my brindlewonderkid, had his removed. He is 12.5 years old and still active in agility. (although now he is doing a lower jump height) I would guess I've averaged about a weekend a month at an agility trial for the last 10 years. (yes, 10 years, i can hardly believe it myself, but we did start competing in 99.) Add to that training time (which has slowed over the past few years). And he has been an active coursing dog (muliple best in field dog). In fact, he and Jet the tri-ing ran Mother's Day weekend. Sort of a second puppyhood if you will. He ran twice, enjoyed himself and the next day he was out in the yard playing with the malinois. I expected to see some stiffness, but no. I also ran him one fun run in Shawnee 3 or 4 weeks ago. Both coursing and agility put a lot of strain on the pasterns and I haven't seen any sign of soreness or arthritis in Digital or Jet.

Jet is 11.5 and has also done coursing and agility, but not quite to the extent of Digital. His dewclaw was not totally removed and he did have to have surgery on it last year, but it does not seem to bother since.

Both dogs started getting joint suppliments around 7 or 8 years of age as a preventative measure.

I do know that several people who lure course dogs with dewclaws are careful to wrap them before running the dog. I also have heard the argument that the "thumb" is an important accupunture point and that the dewclaw is useful when the dog is running full out. BUT, I also have a friend who was out hunting once and a dog got it's dew ripped off, all the way up the leg and the dog bled out before they got it to the vet. That's hearsay, so you may or may not want to believe it, but based on my own dogs, I'd have say removing the dewclaws has NOT be detremental to their performance.

[noodle]

I had my puppies dew claws removed at 4 days old. Unfortunatley, the vet went in too deep with one of them. As a concequence the toe next to where the dew claw would have been did not grow correctly. It was a complete nightmare, caused many sleepless nights and ruined a potential show dog. I have to say I have learned a lesson the hard way and will not be having them removed again.

[tanza]

@noodle:

I had my puppies dew claws removed at 4 days old. Unfortunatley, the vet went in too deep with one of them. As a concequence the toe next to where the dew claw would have been did not grow correctly. It was a complete nightmare, caused many sleepless nights and ruined a potential show dog. I have to say I have learned a lesson the hard way and will not be having them removed again.

Wow…. I have never heard of that happening... I have seen case where they were not removed totally and they grew back...

[moetmum]

I had my pups dew claws removed but I had to talk my vet into doing it, its against their policy, if I ever had another litter, which is highly unlikely, on reflection I wouldn't do it again, there are quite a few over here who still have their dew claws, they all seem to be ok.

I don't think that all breeders that leave them on are backyard breeders its more of an ethical decision for some.

I am really sorry Noodle that you had such a horrible experience, I have never heard of that happening before.

[irena]

I have never heard about removing dew claws. All our basenjis (and also all Czech basenjis) have their dew claws and use them, for example for chew how Benkura said. I have never heard that some basenji had problem with dew claws.

[Borbasuk]

Ezri still has her dewclaws. She's the first one I have had with them. Her breeder is not a show person and when her vet didn't want to do it she didn't argue. Ezri has very neat small ones that sit close to her leg; I have always kept them knocked back very short and I don't think judges ever notice them (she does have lovely feet, maybe the two go together). On the other hand she never uses them to hold or chew things as others have noticed theirs doing.

[Maya]

Maya doesnt have hers and from a purely cosmetic point of view, i think the legs look so much cleaner without them. If i ever had a litter i would have the dew claws off.

[Borbasuk]

It does depend on the dog, some might have rather large and noticeable ones; Ezri's are very small and neat and I don't think her legs look any less clean with the claws on than my others do without them.
My preference would also be to take them off but it's doubtful if we will be permitted to do so much longer.

[Maya]

@Borbasuk:

It does depend on the dog, some might have rather large and noticeable ones; Ezri's are very small and neat and I don't think her legs look any less clean with the claws on than my others do without them.
My preference would also be to take them off but it's doubtful if we will be permitted to do so much longer.

I certainly hope we can :eek:

With basenjis it might just be down to the breeders personal preference as to whether they take them off or not, but with pugs the majority of good breeders do because they have the risk of causing eye injury. Like basenjis, pugs tend to wash their faces with their paws - large eyes and dew claws dont go well together in that situation :rolleyes: I've heard of a lot of pugs scratching eyes with dew claws - not nice!

[basi]

@Borbasuk:

It does depend on the dog, some might have rather large and noticeable ones; Ezri's are very small and neat and I don't think her legs look any less clean with the claws on than my others do without them.
My preference would also be to take them off but it's doubtful if we will be permitted to do so much longer.

I agree with that. Belle has really neat ones but I have seen some really ugly ones while showing abroad. I have to say Belle never uses them for anything, maybe because they are so close to the leg they are of no use i don't know as never had one with them before. I had a discussion with my vet here about them, and they no longer remove them and have heard of other vets saying the same thing, so I think it will come that they will no longer be allowed to be removed.

[Borbasuk]

@Maya:

I certainly hope we can :eek:

So do I, but I fear it's only a matter of time.

I was a little concerned when I found out that Ezri had not had hers off, but she was two weeks old by then and nothing to be done about it; as it has turned out I've been reassured by how much they are noticed (i.e. not at all) and that they have been no trouble.

[tanza]

So, here is a question… what are the rules regarding dogs that have cropped ears and/or tails for showing in Europe if they come from the US? For some reason I seem to remember hearing that they can not show in some parts of Europe? Or all parts? While I do not like ear or tail cropping and glad that our breed is not cropped, I wonder since it is still common practice in the US what happens if they (or can they) go to Europe to show.

And I agree, I think the leg looks much cleaner without the dew claws... again, that is personal opinion.... I could deal with it either way, but prefer having them off.