I don't know if you feed your dog before you walk him, but if you don't, you might find walking him first early morning, after waking up will take care of this issue. My boy basenji won't even eat until he has "done" his business.
Same in the afternoon. Walks will empty them and make them hungery.
Well, so much for drugs…..
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I absolutely agree about the not fawning after arrival and near departure. But I don't understand about the rest...so if he is to get no attention..what did you do when he swiped the pancake? Do you speak to him to tell him not to do something? Or does "no attention" just mean no doting and fawning? My interpretation of "no attention" was you act as if he doesn't exist.
If "no attention" means when he screams in a crate or xpen, I ABSOLUTELY agree with that! -
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That sounds ideal! One sign of a good trainer, is someone who is willing and open to changing the plan if it isn't working
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I absolutely agree about the not fawning after arrival and near departure. But I don't understand about the rest...so if he is to get no attention..what did you do when he swiped the pancake? Do you speak to him to tell him not to do something? Or does "no attention" just mean no doting and fawning? My interpretation of "no attention" was you act as if he doesn't exist.When he took the pancake, I quickly grabbed it away w/out saying a word. Just grabbed it and tossed it into the trash.
A few minutes later I'd left the room -- the infamous "just for a moment" -- he jumped up and took the spatula. Now, he's always been a counter-surfer, but not usually this determined. THAT coupled with the fact that he brought the spatula right to my feet to start to chew, makes me believe that this may be the attempt to get attention that she'd warned about. Again, I just picked up the spatula and tossed it in the sink. I didn't say a word, didn't tell him, "no", nothing. Just retrieved the spatula and returned to working in the kitchen. He stood there for a sec, then went to lie down.
When he tries to chew on something he shouldn't, a snap of the fingers is pretty much doing the trick, thus far. I imagine that will be less effective as we move through, at which point I will use words, only touching him as necessary to move him away, etc. -
When he took the pancake, I quickly grabbed it away w/out saying a word. Just grabbed it and tossed it into the trash.
A few minutes later I'd left the room – the infamous "just for a moment" -- he jumped up and took the spatula. Now, he's always been a counter-surfer, but not usually this determined. THAT coupled with the fact that he brought the spatula right to my feet to start to chew, makes me believe that this may be the attempt to get attention that she'd warned about. Again, I just picked up the spatula and tossed it in the sink. I didn't say a word, didn't tell him, "no", nothing. Just retrieved the spatula and returned to working in the kitchen. He stood there for a sec, then went to lie down.
When he tries to chew on something he shouldn't, a snap of the fingers is pretty much doing the trick, thus far. I imagine that will be less effective as we move through, at which point I will use words, only touching him as necessary to move him away, etc.
That all sounds good….maybe you are going to make a believer out of me
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poor baby-keoki….they are just like children.
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The more I read this thread, the more I think that Nala was very similar as a puppy and young dog. We "gave in" and let her sleep in our bed and it still took years before she stopped messing her crate (and quite honestly, she still gets upset in her crate if in for longer than she thinks necessary, LOL).
My hat is off to you, JM…and my heart goes out to you. I know Keoki will come around. -
When I went to an animal behaviorist at UC Davis here in CA to try to get help for Max, she told me that basenjis were her most difficult separation anxiety patients to deal with. Fortunately, his case was pretty mild. I think any info you post here on your experience will be very helpful for a lot of people. Thank you for "forum schooling" us in addition to your "home schooling"
You know, I've had a few people say to me that this "separation anxiety" or wariness of uncomfortable or unfamiliar situations is common in Basenjis and/or they are somewhat predisposed to it because of the primitive nature of the breed. And I've been questioned essentially as to why I don't just accept that and leave him be.
My question is – is "the breed is pre-disposed to that" behavior a real reason to NOT try to work them out of it, at least to the degree that they can function in a healthier way? I realize they are primitive, haven't been pets long etc. but at the same time they do need to function HERE in THIS world where they find themselves.
I'm NOT saying we should try to "work out" the natural, beautiful, quirky behaviors of the Basenji {or any breed}, but why not those behaviors or quirks which make their lives unpleasant for THEM?I LOVE that Keoki can be a real pain-in-my-ass, what I don't love is that HE panics at times and cannot cope with situations that he really SHOULD be able to cope with.
The kind of timidity and uncertainty he displayed when left to his own devices in an unfamiliar situation {vs having me direct his every step} would have gotten him killed if he were in the wild. It was not a cautious investigation of the environment, it was an emotional meltdown. Once we released him from the leash and walked across the room, he was done for.
There was no one else there, besides the behaviorist {he's not normally afraid of strangers or even strange places.....as long as he is leashed}, no other dogs present, no threat of any kind, except that we weren't holding on to him.
He doesn't behave that way at the vet {agained, leashed to me}, [he actually likes the vet's office] or anywhere else. ONLY when physically unattached from us. Then he tried to physically attach himself, like super-glue. He wouldn't even venture out the four or five feet necessary to pick up a beef tendon from the floor, that was no where near the behaviorist!I can accept a degree of separation anxiety, but this seems extreme to me.
So far the lack of attention doesn't seem to be traumatic to him. He's pretty much doing all his normal stuff – tossing his toys around, "fighting" with Jazz, dozing by the fire, getting under my feet, etc. After his few little attention getting attempts yesterday, he's actually settled down a lot. {The behaviorist did say to expect that behavior to continue through the weekend, so we'll see if he has anything else up his sleeve!}. He's just a lot calmer as he moves about the house.
{It's about killing the kids, though, who DESPERATELY want to pet their puppy!
, but they all seem to grasp the process and are doing their very best to remember}Oh -- not sure if I ever gave a run-down on this woman's credentials, and it may give an idea why I am so confident in her ability to assess the dog accurately and prescribe an appropriate treatment plan:
Her mother is a long-time breeder of Norwegian elkhounds, and she {behaviorist} has over 20 yrs of show-handling experience. Her behavior-specialty is predators and she has worked with orcas, lions, and has lived with wolves. There's no way for me to know the number of dogs she's worked with over the years, but my best guess would be that the number would be in the thousands {even if she only worked with 2/week, over the course of 15+ yrs that'd be 1500 dogs -- I'm not sure how long she's been doing behavior therapy, and I'm sure she's worked more than 2 dogs a week!}
Anyway, that was a tangent, wasn't it?
I'm not sure what got me going, LOL, or even what my original point was. Hmmm, I think I'll just post and let it go....... -
JazzysMom, I am so impressed with your dedication to this problem. Keoki is very lucky to have such a loving family. I don't think what your asking for is to much for any dog to comply with. He will get it in time. I think boys are more needy anyway
I believe there is no 100% right way to do anything for every dog. You have a good start and a dedicated breeder and behaviorist to help you through this. And you can always vent here.
Your in our thoughts!! Good Luck.
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Okay, So Keoki sleeps now in an ex-pen, no crate. The pen is set up so it's probably 6 ft. by 2 ft. Jazzy's crate sits right next to it so he can see her.
Gypsy has slept on a large pillow just outside the pen. I always try to make sure that there is enough space between Gypsy's bed and the kennel, so that none of her pillow sticks into the pen. There's not a lot of room, though, as you can see from the photos.Today the whole family went to soccer; we were gone about 2 hours. I left Keoki in the pen with four stuffed toys, a rawhide chew, and a cow kneecap to chew on.
I had {apparently foolishly} put his night-time pillow on top of the ex-pen. The pen is 3 ft tall.
TWO HOURS.
Somehow he managed to pull Gypsy's pillow through the teeny tiny squares of the ex-pen. He also got to the pillow atop the pen and shredded it from below.
See photos.Surely, two hours for an almost 9 mos old puppy shouldn't be too much to ask w/out returning to THIS level of destruction, esp. given that he had LOTS in his crate to keep him busy. Now, poor old Gypsy has no bed.
I don't know that it's worth buying any more beds for any of the dogs until we get this problem with Keoki solved.
IMG]http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n135/JoNell_63/Keokisx-penwithpillow.jpg
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I should explain – it appears that Keoki pulled the cover of Gypsy's bed -- if you look in his pen, it's brown-striped and blue -- into his pen somehow off of the stuffing, most of which remained outside the pen. ??? This was a large pillow, intact, and he managed to pull the cover off around the stuffing.
When I cleaned it up, it completely stuffed a 39 gallon trash bag. LOL{I know Gypsy didn't tear it up as 1} she has never torn bedding, and 2} when we got home she wasn't even in the room anymore. She tends to wander out rather than stay in the room w/the others, esp. when Keoki is having fits. She's too old to tolerate his screaming and whining and will simply walk away }
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Well…it isn't to much to ask of a 9 mo old puppy that isn't crate phobic. It doesn't really matter how much stuff you put in to entertain him (he isn't bored); or if the other dogs are near him or not (he isn't lonely). He is angry, or maybe freaked out, or terrifed to be in his crate. Judging by how you said he responded to being ignored (didn't bother him too much), I doubt he is even freaked out about the family leaving...he is freaked out by being closed in a crate. And that IS pretty common with Basenjis.
QUOTE]I guess I thought the fact that he is now in a 6x2' wire pen would have helped with the crate-phobia.
He ran right in, and didn't seem to mind while I was putting the clips on to close it all up. I didn't hear any fussing while I was getting my shoes on to leave the house, etc., which we used to hear quite loudly.And he's been sleeping in the pen pretty well -- he's only fussed a few minutes one night. The other four nights have been peaceful.
Oh well, live and learn!:rolleyes:
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Well…that all sounds like improvement
Maybe he didn't shred because he was freaked out...but because it is what he enjoys doing most It really is like a big experiment with dogs like this. You kind of find what works, and what you can tolerate to live with
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A woman on another list used one a couple of years ago and thought it helped with thunderstorms. I believe she simply used an ACE wrap, not too snug, around the torso and shoulders.
I am fortunate that none of mine have anxiety issues, as we live in "the thunderstorm capitol of America".Anne in Tampa
