BIG problems with Jack…

[Duke]

Hmmm - makes me think that Jack's behavior with OTHER people may be a his way of protecting the pack - warning others to stay away from the baby and newest member. Maybe he instinctively knows the baby's life depends on pack protection. I don't know - that seems to be the way dogs behave in the wild.

[youngandtired]

I agree 100% with you Duke, it appears that Jack is protecting his pack! I would always watch closely when he is near the baby, just knowing he is still adjusting to the new pack member. I hope he continues on his way to loving this member the same. When my son was a toddler my cat would walk around the yard with him (I was with my son also), and when my son would stop my cat would lay down and wait for him to move again. He watched after him even when we were in the house and never a scratch did he get.

[sharronhurlbut]

My girl basenji has always been good with kids, from bab's in arms to toddlers.
My boy, however is good with babies, but once they start creeping and crawling, he is NOT.
We know that and make sure we have baby gates up with the grandkids come visit.
It's just smart to protect both the dog and baby from trouble.
Do be careful with this…dogs don't mean to "hurt" but they can.

[Quercus]

I just want to point out, that it doesn't really matter why Jack is biting people…just the fact that he is willing to go to that level IS a threat around children. Some people are willing to acknowledge and manage this threat...but it should never be assumed or taken for granted that the dog won't bite a family member. Dogs like this bite when they get angry, or scared, or threatened, or irritated...and that does happen MORE with little kids in the house, than without.

[tanza]

@Quercus:

I just want to point out, that it doesn't really matter why Jack is biting people…just the fact that he is willing to go to that level IS a threat around children. Some people are willing to acknowledge and manage this threat...but it should never be assumed or taken for granted that the dog won't bite a family member. Dogs like this bite when they get angry, or scared, or threatened, or irritated...and that does happen MORE with little kids in the house, than without.

Well put Andrea….

[Capt_Jack_our_Basenji]

went to the vet today. we discussed Jacks issues in detail. and the vet says i CAN call a behaviorist, but its expensive and to him personally its not worth it. He thinks Jack is adjusting to the changes and is just protective of the baby and that we should wait it out but if he bites the baby then we should sell or offer him to BRAT or put him down…SO as a family we have decided to keep working with Jack. Take percautions when guests are here (caged mussle) and do ALL we can to help him feel more confortable around strangers and the changes. Hes been stressed i can tell, and VERY full of energy (thank god for my husband who WEARS Jack OUT everyday!! LOL) so hes buring off the bottled up energy. Jack had to get some medicine for the hot spots he has been making all over himself...so poor lil Jackers is going to be in his caged mussle alot for the next few days. but thank GOD Jack doesnt mind wearing it at all...lol. WELL we will keep ya posted and THANKS for all the support!!

[tanza]

@Capt_Jack_our_Basenji:

went to the vet today. we discussed Jacks issues in detail. and the vet says i CAN call a behaviorist, but its expensive and to him personally its not worth it. He thinks Jack is adjusting to the changes and is just protective of the baby and that we should wait it out but if he bites the baby then we should sell or offer him to BRAT or put him down…SO as a family we have decided to keep working with Jack. Take percautions when guests are here (caged mussle) and do ALL we can to help him feel more confortable around strangers and the changes. Hes been stressed i can tell, and VERY full of energy (thank god for my husband who WEARS Jack OUT everyday!! LOL) so hes buring off the bottled up energy. Jack had to get some medicine for the hot spots he has been making all over himself...so poor lil Jackers is going to be in his caged mussle alot for the next few days. but thank GOD Jack doesnt mind wearing it at all...lol. WELL we will keep ya posted and THANKS for all the support!!

Sorry, but I would never go to that Vet again…. And wait to just see if he bites? and then Sell, give to BRAT, or PTS? That is no answer, sorry... you would be much better off placing him now, IMO....

[renaultf1]

I'm actually surprised that in the litigious society that we live in today that any vet would make the recommendation to wait and see if the dog bites the child. Wow. :eek:

[tanza]

And while I understand a financial situation about getting a behaviorist, like a few others have said, they have done it for a very small price… honestly IMO, you are not being fair to Jack or to your family... the present of the hot spots are a big indication that he is totally stressed (as you said) and I would venture to guess that things will not get a whole lot better....and if he bites it will be because he is placed in a stressful situation and knows no way to get himself out of it, be it right or wrong...

[Quercus]

It does seem strange that the vet would suggest waiting for the disaster before rehoming the dog. Particularly in light of the dog clearly being stressed enough to have hot spots.

On the other hand, I have been in the situation of having to make this decision. We decided to keep the dog (Ivy), because for us, we would not rehome her, knowing that she will bite without much warning. But we have put a TON of work into managing her every move, behavioral modification, and making sure Ethan is always safe. Ivy is the reason that I went from knowing how to train dogs, to learning how to modifiy problem behaviors in dogs. I had to learn a lot, very quickly, and luckily I had great access to mentors and teachers. This project (biting dog living with kids) is something I would not recommend to ANY client. It isn't something to be taken lightly, or without a committment to learning as much as humanly possible about dog behavior (and child behavior).

It is important to keep in mind the balance of the human's desire to keep the dog in the family vs. the dog's happiness with the situation. Sometimes what we want for the dog, is not at all what the dog would choose for himself.

[Capt_Jack_our_Basenji]

So youre saying i should just get rid of Jack? Because i cant afford the behaviorist?(i did my research and called around its either too expensive or too far away) And i think i miss spoke about the Vet he said IF Jack does bite we should get rid of him (sorry)hehee…i should re read what i write before i finally post, again, sorry. Oh and hes been getting hot spots as long as we have had him...he has four spots right now...but hes had hot spots before...
I honestly am trying to do my best with Jack and this unfortunate situation. it would be so hard for me to pass him off because of this. Poor Jack was already given up before, thats how we rescued him...I dont feel at ALL that he is going to bite me or the baby. Im around him all day, and i can tell he is just being protective of the baby around strangers. Of COURSE if he does start to become violent beyond growling, then ill have to re consider my options. but i REALLY dont want to give up on JAck, we LOVE him, he was our first baby...and he really is a WONDERFUL dog, hes just going thru a tough transition and we are here helping him thru it, and i dont want to abandon him unless it is the LAST resort...THANKS for all your responses and support and opinions...I really needed people who could relate to our little situation!! Thanks

[Quercus]

<>
I thought you said he actually bit people since the baby came home?

[Quercus]

I can suggest some good books, for less than $20 each, that will help you learn about your dog. Let me know if you are interested.

[Vegas]

Please, for jack's sake, correct the behavior before it becomes a problem.

Crate train, if you havn't already.

Be the alpha. The times of feeling sorry for jack are over. If you don't correct the problem now, at best you face a liklihood of having a crotchety 12year old jack that has to be put down for biting a child simply because he was irritated, and it was never really a corrected behavior.

This, my friend, is not an untravelled road.

Your vet obviously knows nothing about basenji behavior. I personally have had brat dogs that bit, and bit hard. With help of a behaviourist, and yes, some prayer, my boy Taz has gone over 2 years bite free.

Curiousity: How much for the behaviorist?

[sharronhurlbut]

Oh, honey, I can tell you love this dog. You will NOT Like this post..I am sorry.
I have to be the voice of reality.
IF Jack bites someone or your child BRAT And NO other rescue group can take him.
The hospital whoever he bites badly, will need medical help will make a report and then this will be TOTALLY out of your hands.
So, please, make sure this doesn't happen.
Use a crate, with nice chewies when folks come over.
Make sure you are always with the baby and Jack.
Again, I am very sorry….but IMO, getting someone in the house to check out Jack's behavior is going to be less expensive and stressful, than if the authorities come in.
Maybe you could ask your folks for $$$ to help you pay for this.

[Capt_Jack_our_Basenji]

I wish my parents could but they are going thru a divorce…so...Actually Jack responds REALLY well to the Alfa dog "training" Positive guidence has NO effect on him at all and a tap on the nose or on the butt doesnt either, i think thats because he was abused before. But if I growl at him when hes too close when im eating, he walks away. and when hes being bad, (like tearing into the bathroom trash a loud "hey" or "No Jack" works, and he tucks his tail and goes to his bed and lays down. He has bittin one person (before the baby) our neighbor Steve it was a nip that almost got his skin (he got his shirt) and when my mom (a dog trainer) tried the "alfa dog" approach while she was eating she growled at him and he growled back then she went to grab him by the hackles area and he went to bite her, he missed...but that was days after the baby and i were home and my mom and granma were there (strangers to him). Jack cant be crated unfortunatly, we will bite and paw at the bars of the cage until he makes himself bleed...so thats why we use the caged mussle when strangers are here...he is doing better...i just dont know even if i can afford a behaviorist some day, if it will be able to help...i need the Dog Whisperer!!!!! yeah....im going to email him, lol...I have been doing my own research too on basenji behavior as well. But trust me we are doing something about it...we are NOT taking it lightly. We will just see...

[Capt_Jack_our_Basenji]

Oh and it costs (cheapest in our area and there are only two places) is 100$ an hour!!

[BasenjiDiva]

I'm not going to offer you any advice because I don't really have any and I'm a new basenji owner and a novice when it comes to their quirks. I just want to say I feel really really sorry for you having to go through this and having your joy over the birth of your first child dampened. I really hope that things work out well for you both, your darling new son, and the dog you also love. I will say that our first dog loathed our first child when she was born. He never tried to harm the baby but it was quite clear that he would assist any intruder who might have been willing to kidnap the little interloper! He learned to live with the baby (and her 2 siblings that came along later) and the children learned early on to just leave the dog alone. The dog was really cranky immediately after each child was born but eventually settled down. When the 3rd child was born, he was so upset that he developed horrible diarrhea. I swear, every time the dog looked at me and the baby, he pooped! :eek: I had a belly full of stitches from a c-section; a new baby; a 5 and 7 year old; a husband in the Army who was out in the field; I wasn't allowed to drive yet; AND we were living in Germany far away from either family. I really had neither the time or patience for canine dramatics! I finally took a bottle of Kaopectate and a syringe and every time the dog pooped, I squirted kaopectate into his mouth. His poop actually turned white from all the kaopectate!! He finally decided the baby was there to stay and he might as well give up the diarrhea warfare!

I sincerely hope that things settle down for you and that Jack settles down. Good luck.

Pat

[Capt_Jack_our_Basenji]

Thanks Pat!!

[Barklessdog]

I have to agree with the others, if you find a nice home for Jack now, it just might be the best for all involved. It might save Jacks life if he does bite and has to be put down.

The real problem is going to be when the baby becomes a grab happy wobbly toddler and grabs jacks tail, stares him in the eye- which WILL result in biting

I think no one here thinks you would be a bad owner by finding Jack a new home.

$100 an hour?

We all need to become dog trainers! Business must be good for people to drop that kind of money