Crate training

[sanjibasenji]

Size is key for crate/potty training, and cover it at night. Small crate or reduce available space of a large one.

At 4.5 months, Sanji is potty trained and now sleeps with us. But sometimes we have to step out and leave him in the crate. Glad we crate trained him at night and crucially, for naps during the day when he was younger and not potty trained.

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[RugosaB]

I used the next size bigger Med/L (at the time I bought them, the med was not available in this area.)

[tanza]

@sanjibasenji - Wire crates are better then these............... you can cover them with a blanket, but when I got my first Basenjis 35+ years ago I did use the plastic kennels... hated them... use wire crates ever since. That said crate training for any pup regardless of the breed is an important thing. And if the pup is going to be in a crate at night, it needs to be in the place where you sleep

[enquiring_mind]

Thank you all for the help.

@Zande yes, UK based. Good memory.

I've ordered this one, 30inch, got tray at the bottom and I've ordered a matt to make it soft for sleeping too.

If he grows out of it I'll pass this on to another and get bigger but hopefully this will do at first for the very least.

[Zande]

@enquiring_mind Mine are 34 inch, but of course, I have two Basenjis, although I have always had this size, just multiple crates.

I wish I could have found mine on Google for you because the double tray is much better. It is like a lining to the tray which, when the tray is slid out, comes out and allows cleaning, but when in place, lifts the dog out of lying in the actual tray. And you can get bedding in Jollyes which fits perfectly.

Don't forget to get a coop cup. A water holder which fits into a ring clipped to the side of the crate and allowing the dog access to fresh water. This is especially necessary in the car for any length of trip.

Make friends with you local Jollyes, you will find loads of things there that you can see before you buy.

Don't forget to let me have the pup's data although it will be in the Breed Record Supplements. They only come in 4 times a year. I probably have all Ilona's information in already though.

[JENGOSMonkey]

@zande Something like this one perhaps?

https://www.chewy.com/midwest-double-door-collapsible-wire/dp/175770

[Zande]

@jengosmonkey No, because the lining of the tray sits in the tray and is no higher than the edge of the tray. I need to get out there with a camera. Anyway, it is not a metal tray - heavy duty plastic.

Just noticed something interesting - the number of crates that their adverts claim are useful for puppy training but which are OUT OF STOCK. Is this for the same reason shares in dog-food and dog-supply firms are through the roof ? Pandemic Puppies ?

[enquiring_mind]

@jengosmonkey the dog in that advert is floating 🤣

[sanjibasenji]

@tanza
I have both. Use the smaller plastic in the car. The wire is too big and bulky for that. I'm not sure about having the crate where one sleeps until they are potty trained, for two reasons. One, they need to get used to being by themselves for situations that require it, and two, it's convenient at night to have it near the door so the pup doesn't pee or poo in your hands on the way out. The first month is the worst, getting up every couple of hours...

[tanza]

@sanjibasenji - You should pick them up and carry them out... until they are older and can hold pee/poo, not let them figure out how to get outside. At night I wake them and take them out, carry out and then carry in back to the crate. And yes the first couple of months are the hardest and you miss sleep... but wake them up and carry them out. Don't expect them to hold it and walk outside... puppies are used to getting up and going potty, not holding it. Remember that when with the litter they have Mom to clean up after them...
And honestly I don't agree that at night they should be by themselves... the need to be with their human...

[JENGOSMonkey]

🐇@enquiring_mind Completely agree. Reminds me more of a rabbit hutch than a dog crate. 🥕 🐇

[sanjibasenji]

@tanza said in Crate training:

@sanjibasenji - You should pick them up and carry them out... until they are older and can hold pee/poo, not let them figure out how to get outside. At night I wake them and take them out, carry out and then carry in back to the crate. And yes the first couple of months are the hardest and you miss sleep... but wake them up and carry them out. Don't expect them to hold it and walk outside... puppies are used to getting up and going potty, not holding it. Remember that when with the litter they have Mom to clean up after them...
And honestly I don't agree that at night they should be by themselves... the need to be with their human...

I agree with all, except last sentence. If one doesn't teach them to sleep alone at night and during the day, it'll be a problem down the road when they have to be left alone. They may develop separation anxiety. My sense is that the basenji, and some other breeds, don't do well alone. The sooner they learn to spend some time alone, the less difficult it will be for them later when they have to be alone. Our work in this regard I believe has paid off. At first we were catering to him. He was training us. Then we followed the advice of our training pro, and began leaving him in the crate at night down stairs from our room. It was tough at first. But we stuck it out and within a few weeks he was going into his crate voluntarily. If we hadn't, it'd be really hard on him when we have to leave him in there for 2-3 hours when we can't be home.

[Zande]

@tanza Actually I have never had a puppy pee on me while being carried out to empty. They seem to realise from a very early age where they are headed when woken at dead of night. They hold it until they are outside and then unleash the floodgates.

[eeeefarm]

@sanjibasenji said in Crate training:

If one doesn't teach them to sleep alone at night and during the day, it'll be a problem down the road when they have to be left alone.

That hasn't been my experience at all. The ones that were always kept close to me at night from the get go never gave me any grief when I left them alone. The two I adopted as adults that had not been close to their humans at night were my separation anxiety dogs......go figure.

[Zande]

@eeeefarm Not that difficult to figure. The ones who had had closer access to you at night had more confidence and could, therefore, tolerate being on their own. The adults with separation anxiety had probably never been given that confidence.

[tanza]

@zande - Exactly Zande, I carry them out... never had one pee either when being carried out... letting them try and figure it out at a young age, yes....

[sanjibasenji]

@Zande
@tanza
@eeeefarm

Curious how your experience runs contrary to the positions of professional trainers on crate training. I have yet to encounter any that advise sleeping with a puppy. Maybe I've overlooked them... All I can say is that their training techniques have worked for us and trying to sleep with Sanji prior to potty and crate training was not.

[Zande]

@sanjibasenji I'm sorry but I had to laugh out loud ! My opinion of professional trainers is, in any case - use them on other dogs, keep them well away from Basenjis !

But what trainer can add up the years of experience of breeding, rearing and owning a pack that @tanza and I have ? Its probably approaching 80 years ! 39+ for me and I forget how many for Pat, almost that number I think. @eeeefarm hasn't bred litters of puppies like we have, but she also has vast experience with Basenjis and between the three of us we can offer at least 90 years.

But you follow your trainer by all means, if it suits you. We will all three continue to give the same advice, based on years with this wonderful breed.

[eeeefarm]

@sanjibasenji, I can't resist....."the only thing two professional trainers can agree on is that the third one is doing it wrong!"

I agree with Zande and Tanza, who have years of experience with the breed. I doubt many trainers have any, or at best limited, experience of Basenjis. However, the bottom line is what works for you.

Personally I have never consulted anyone about training dogs, although I have read a few books. The wisest I have ever read are those by Chuck Eisenmann, but he was in a class by himself. I saw him once in Toronto. His dogs understood everything he said and acted on his suggestions that were made in a conversational tone, no matter how complicated his instructions. True magic!

[tanza]

@sanjibasenji - There are good trainers and "not" so good trainers... some consider all breeds the same and train them the same... but in my opinion not true. I have always had my Basenjis in the same room as we sleep in... never an issue when we were not home and we worked outside the home so every day they were home alone. As I have said before, I was lucky that I could set up the house that they had access to the yard (12' privacy fences and locked gates, with a doggy door, house set back from the street). But knowing that we did work that was taken into consideration when getting into a breed and how to arrange the house. That said if you can't set up the home to give them space and you have to crate during the day... they must be with you in the evening/night time, not again confided to a crate. Too much crate time is a real issue, again in my opinion. In the breed for 30+ years, breeding and raising litters...