:::Agressive at the park:::
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  • hello guys!,

    its been a while since ive posted, but ive ran into an issue lately with my Alpha pup Milosh.

    it seems as of lately Milosh has been obsessed with pokin' nippin a springer spaniel, (the sniffin, then the growl , then the side stare, and well…basenji snarl teeth . The springer owner immediately starts yelling and screaming loudly, iam already there on hand but after several times like this during a month she is ready to report me.
    It seems our time could be clashing a- The lady is not very firendly as it is, and i dotn think she will be willing to co-operate with me- "put you dog on a *****ing leash when im here."

    so, now when i see her coming i tend togo to the smaller area of the park. which will work- but Milosh n Zeus like to run and ,ost of their puppy clan is over at the large side. I started browsing the forums, for ideas and maybe a mesh muzzle maybe an option-to put on ONLY when the lady shows up with her springers.

    Milosh is a very active 4yr old and super curious which why sometimes it gets him into trouble. He responds to commands and he gets along pretty much with all breeds- just this one' springer' he tends to not listen to me. and to be honest i dotn want to deprive Milosh & Zeus of their park activities.

    heres the mussle i was looking at:

    http://www.petmountain.com/product/dog-muzzles/11442-503503/coastal-pet-best-fit-mesh-muzzles-black.html

    or, iam open to suggestions!

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  • @funnybunny:

    The springer owner immediately starts yelling and screaming loudly, iam already there on hand but after several times like this during a month she is ready to report me.
    It seems our time could be clashing a- The lady is not very firendly as it is, and i dotn think she will be willing to co-operate with me- "put you dog on a *****ing leash when im here."

    Unfortunately, as you are the one with the dog that is being aggressive, it is up to you to avoid confrontations (as you are doing). If this snarkiness should degenerate into an actual fight, it would not be good news. If you are going to try the muzzle, best to give it a go at home. He will likely hate it and try to get it off, so make sure it is adjusted in a way that he can't do that. A box muzzle might be a better answer, someone with more experience in this area will hopefully respond.

    It's funny how some dogs just take a dislike to a certain dog (and may generalize the dislike to all of that breed), but it's important to pay close attention in case he decides to get tough with others that he has previously gotten along with. A check of his thyroid levels might be a good idea.

    Since I have been on both sides of this situation at times, I can tell you it is no picnic to have someone else's dog pick on yours. You may feel the lady is being unreasonable, but until you have walked in her shoes I wouldn't be too quick to judge. I've had a dog of mine attacked, and as a result. I will do whatever it takes to deter an aggressor. If it gets hurt in the process, so be it. IMO, a dog should be under control of the owner at all times. If the owner does not have control, the dog should not be loose. You should be able to recall your dog, even with major distractions. Not easy with a Basenji, I know, and generally impossible once a fight has actually started.

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  • @eeeefarm:

    I can tell you it is no picnic to have someone else's dog pick on yours. You may feel the lady is being unreasonable, but until you have walked in her shoes I wouldn't be too quick to judge. I've had a dog of mine attacked, and as a result. I will do whatever it takes to deter an aggressor. If it gets hurt in the process, so be it. IMO, a dog should be under control of the owner at all times. If the owner does not have control, the dog should not be loose. You should be able to recall your dog, even with major distractions. Not easy with a Basenji, I know, and generally impossible once a fight has actually started.

    Oh, ive been there! so this is why iam even here on the forums seeking advice. Iam being very responsible. everyone at the park knows me and are a bit surprised at Milosh reactions toward this one dog.

    I posted that muzzle because i would only use it when she shows up. and i found the link here int he forums from someone who uses it. I will look into his thyroid level. thanks for the tip!

    as far as having control over him (Milosh) , i do.
    but the park is for them to run and let loose, if her dog dosent like being sniffed and starts to growl, i don't expect Milosh to take it lightly…If her dog cant handle a group of dogs beign social doin dog things ( polite butt sniffs) and the owner freaks them out by screaming, then, she shouldn't be taking them to a crowded dog park. imo.

    as ive said my pups are both well mannered- behaved.

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  • @funnybunny:

    …...if her dog dosent like being sniffed and starts to growl, i don't expect Milosh to take it lightly...If her dog cant handle a group of dogs beign social doin dog things ( polite butt sniffs) and the owner freaks them out by screaming, then, she shouldn't be taking them to a crowded dog park. imo.

    I guess the obvious question is whether she has an issue with anyone else's dogs? Is her dog reacting to others in a friendly way, or does it have a problem with every dog that tries to get personal? I would agree that if her dog can't tolerate other dogs she needs to rethink bringing it to the dog park, but if the issue is strictly between your dog and hers, that is another matter. (the easiest answer if that is the case is to work something out so you aren't there at the same time, but that implies a level of cooperation you don't seem to be getting. I would try going there without my dog and talking to her without the distraction of dealing with dogs that don't like each other. It is always hard to deal with someone who is in an emotional state!)

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  • I would NEVER under any conditions muzzle a dog at a dog park…. period... While you might think your Basenji is the aggressive one, are you sure... are you sure the other dog is NOT invading his/her space? Sounds to me like the other dog doesn't belong in the dog park. It is not your responsibility to muzzle your dog if it is the other dog causing the issue by what sounds to me like being a bully

    Back to the muzzle... while it might stop your from a possible bite... if attacked he/she had no WAY to protect itself.... not in a million years would I ever, ever use a muzzle in a dog park... but then again... I stay away from dog parks period

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  • First Basenji's

    @funnybunny:

    hello guys!,

    …. with pokin' nippin a springer spaniel, (the sniffin, then the growl , then the side stare, and well...basenji snarl teeth . is it your pup doing the growl etc or the spaniel??? Have you ever watched the spaniel around the other dogs in the park? does he employ social interactions with other dogs? or is it just with Milosh that he has trouble with? the key is the spaniel's attitude upon entry into the park.....
    .... super curious which why sometimes it gets him into trouble. He responds to commands and he gets along pretty much with all breeds- just this one' springer' he tends to not listen to me. and to be honest i dotn want to deprive Milosh & Zeus of their park activities. what other trouble does his curiosity get him into? is it with interactions with other dogs? or is he generally friendly? My Uzie boy is generally friendly, but he does get over roused up and excited and, yep, the nip at the butt or tail happens....no other dog likes it so I have to intercept and either remove him or the other dogs know not to play rough around him so nothing will go over threshold. He can be a handful! (They!!!)

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  • ok before the ranting about the muzzle goes any further:

    "NO MUZZLE FOR THE PARK"

    I inquire to a dog trainer and explained the situation. and i will NOT be muzzling Milosh in the park. will NOT.

    what i will do is leash milosh if he persists to start anything with the springer (a time out) - He also said it sounds like the owner of the springers really shouldn't be in a public park with her dogs acting as she does, it is pure normal for dogs to act that way and it sort itself out.

    obviously i know its not about dog fighting-and she does too, but she dosent like how milsoh initiates it.

    the trainer said muzzling him in the park could give him anxiety and get him more excited-and can couse a collapse!- so iam glad i inquired about the muzzle. now keep in mind Milosh is very highly strung and energetic which why the muzzle is not an option.

    i will also try and talk to the lady to find out what hours might work best to avoid each other in the park.= wish me luck with this one!

    thanks for the feedback!- keep u guys posted!

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  • Good to hear that you will not use a muzzle… even if you would have asked a trainer and they said, yes... I would still positively say NO.... never should be an option.

    I even have problems with lure coursing when some dogs are muzzled and some are not since it is optional... All should be muzzled.... like straight line or oval track racing... IMO. To have some muzzled and some not... makes it way to unfair to the muzzled dog if another dog were to come after them.

    And I agree, sounds to me like the Springer is the problem, not the Basenji

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  • @tanza:

    And I agree, sounds to me like the Springer is the problem, not the Basenji

    It doesn't read quite that way to me. If I am properly understanding the OP, the Basenji initiates the incident. I don't think the question has been answered as to whether the Springer is having issues with other dogs, or just Milosh. If it's a general problem with the Springer, then sure. But if there is only an issue when Milosh is present, the blame has to be at least shared, if not put on him. (I would concur about muzzles, although most Basenjis I have known are agile enough to take care of themselves when at a disadvantage…..assuming they perceive they are at a disadvantage!)

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  • @eeeefarm:

    It doesn't read quite that way to me. If I am properly understanding the OP, the Basenji initiates the incident. I don't think the question has been answered as to whether the Springer is having issues with other dogs, or just Milosh. If it's a general problem with the Springer, then sure. But if there is only an issue when Milosh is present, the blame has to be at least shared, if not put on him. (I would concur about muzzles, although most Basenjis I have known are agile enough to take care of themselves when at a disadvantage…..assuming they perceive they are at a disadvantage!)

    Obviously the springer has had issues in the past (ive been told by older park vets), which is why the owner is over protective and dosent like her springer socializing with hyper active dogs. I also feel one main reason could be they are trying to protect her as she starts to scream-dosent help matters much.

    just like my Zeus dosent like puppies all on his face i make it aware to the owner oh my Zeus isnt too friendly with pups and Zeus just hisses (like a cat) nothing more, and the owner of their pup isnt offended .

    this lady has had issues with her dog although hes also a bit older (6-7?) and one of her dogs has a hip problem -which makes her more sensitive when a dog rushes to her springers- still the fact remains the owner is very 'aloof' to discuss this and feel shes at the 'right' which she actually isnt .
    considering iam trying to solve this issue w/o her help. and rudely insults my attendance towards my dogs.

    yes, milsoh maybe hyper and aggressive when socializing, but that can be worked out by the dogs themselves supervised by their owners. not the other way around.

    ***a side note: ive found all her history by word of mouth. not her, she is not very friendly. unfortunately only rude comments have been exchanged.

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  • @funnybunny:

    Obviously the springer has had issues in the past (ive been told by older park vets), which is why the owner is over protective and dosent like her springer socializing with hyper active dogs. I also feel one main reason could be they are trying to protect her as she starts to scream-dosent help matters much.

    As in, the Springer has been attacked by other dogs and is fearful, or the Springer has done the attacking? ("issues" doesn't tell me much). Does the Springer attempt to socialize, or does it stay away from other dogs when it has a choice?

    Full disclosure, I am not a fan of off leash parks, because many people who use them do not have good control of their animals. Minor snarks can indeed turn into full on battles, as vets can attest. Sure, most dogs will "work it out", but fearful ones may bite in self defense, which may in turn initiate a fight. Some people use the parks as the only venue where they can legally allow their dog the freedom to run. If they prefer that their dog not socialize, and if they have control over their own dog, they should not be put in the position of having to protect it from others that are aggressive and out of control. (I do realize that this is likely an impossible goal, but IMO dogs should not be off leash unless they have a reliable recall, regardless of distractions.)

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  • well- my conclusion was that i will be avoiding this lady and her dogs. talking with her was nonconstructive and pointless - sad to say.

    i have alternative parks and places to take my babies. it just saddens me to see people like this who are unwilling to communicate when they are their voice for the pet.

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  • I'm only reading this from one viewpoint, but it seems obvious that the springer has the issue. I think that the best thing to do is to distance yourself and the dog. HOWEVER, please report this individual or let others know what has happened…..as someone who uses off leash dog parks...what happens when all the 'good people' leave is that you're left with a very dangerous dog park. It is the responsibility of everyone within the dog park to get rid of (as harsh as that sounds) any negative influences.

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  • @Timesthemyth:

    but it seems obvious that the springer has the issue.

    @funnybunny:

    it seems as of lately Milosh has been obsessed with pokin' nippin a springer spaniel, (the sniffin, then the growl , then the side stare, and well…basenji snarl teeth .

    Again, I am asking, how is this "obvious"? So far nobody has enlightened me about what the Springer is supposedly doing, other than being upset when another dog nips it in the butt. What am I missing here?

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  • Well, this is all assuming that Milosh is a well-socialized, emotionally healthy dog. If a dog is going after one dog, and not other dogs, then I would assume that the dog that is being 'gone after' is sending out inappropriate body language that we can't otherwise see.

    For example, I know my dog Beo is very well socialized. He gets along with most dogs and puppies…..so recently when he 'went after' (growling, lunging, extremely scary sounding) a 12 week old puppy....behavior out of character for him....then it's likely the other dog. [ Come to find out this puppy was separated at 6 weeks and acts extremely dominate…abnormally. Even my puppy acts cautious around him].

    Other dogs are able to pick up on body language that we can't. So, that was my assumption anyways. Could be totally incorrect. But….if Milosh gets along fine with other dogs and this one dog comes along, and he just targets it...there is something off about the dog. A emotionally unstable dog that sends out negative signals to other dogs shouldn't be in a dog park IMHO... really for their protection. I've seen how quickly they will get taken down by normally well-adjusted dogs.

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  • Which is why I queried (several times) the behaviour of the other dogs towards the Springer.
    @eeeefarm:

    I guess the obvious question is whether she has an issue with anyone else's dogs? Is her dog reacting to others in a friendly way, or does it have a problem with every dog that tries to get personal? I would agree that if her dog can't tolerate other dogs she needs to rethink bringing it to the dog park, but if the issue is strictly between your dog and hers, that is another matter.

    I have yet to receive an answer to my question.
    @funnybunny:

    Obviously the springer has had issues in the past (ive been told by older park vets), which is why the owner is over protective and dosent like her springer socializing with hyper active dogs.

    To me, this suggests there are no current issues with dogs other than Milosh. If that is the case, then the blame must fall to him or at the most be equally shared…...and in the eyes of the law the aggressor will be the guilty party, should something untoward occur. "Blame the victim" is not in style these days. Sounds way too much like "she was asking for it". Yes, dogs will generally sort things out, and dogs can send out bad vibes, but the bottom line is that whatever the reason, if your dog is perceived as provoking the problem (and if he is the one who approaches the other dog rather than vice versa, he will certainly be perceived this way), then ultimately you will be the one who will be considered responsible. Best to avoid that situation if you can.

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  • I think we can all agree that the 'aggressive' appearing dog is not always the aggressor. It's really hard to tell with out seeing it first hand. If multiple dogs have an issue with your dog though…..it's probably your dog. Regardless if your precious pooch was a rescue, or whatever, dogs don't think like that.

    If a pedophile was in a playground adult humans would gang up on that individual....I feel like dogs are the same in that respect. If they sense something wrong they try to fix the situation by taking down that bad presence. That is my dog through and through...sweetest thing you will ever meet UNTIL a dog that has issues comes along. If that happens it's all about protecting the humans....

    The fact that Milosh is described as an "alpha" is very telling. It's also very telling that the woman who owns the springer is perceived as rude by multiple people. The springer may just be picking up on negative energy from her, and is a perfectly sane dog. Hard to know..... but we can only offer advice based on the information given. For all we know the two were just playing normally and there is no problem.

    Regardless, NO ONE should bring a dog into a dog park with a muzzle on. If a dog truly 'bites' (nipping isn't really biting) then it should not be at the dog park. Period. Socialization classes are for that, not our free time. If you think your dog might be the problem; starting fights, bullying.....then please go to classes not the dog park.

    Someone brought a muzzled dog to the park the other day, and it did not stop the dog from showing aggressive behavior...just stopped it from biting..... and then of course all the dogs in the park (who were playing normally up until that point) jumped it. The energy changed 100% due to that one dog; as soon as it was gone things were fine.

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  • I spoke to a trainer. and she met with milosh, she said hes fine, not to muzzle him (which i wasn't anyways) and if it occurs again 'time him out' on the leash for 5min. till he calms down. and play with him after hes unleashed-repeatedly he will 'get it'

    and aside from the obvious that the springer and the owner are recluse at the park , speaks for itself. I wont peruse a solution with them any longer.

    I already have spoken to the park office and multiple people at the park and a trainer. and also here on the forums(although many don't agree here with my story).

    Milosh is a pretty healthy socialite and sour apples at the park wont stop us from having a good time.

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  • I spoke to a trainer. and she met with milosh, she said hes fine, not to muzzle him (which i wasn't anyways) and if it occurs again 'time him out' on the leash for 5min. till he calms down. and play with him after hes unleashed-repeatedly he will 'get it'

    and aside from the obvious that the springer and the owner are recluse at the park , speaks for itself. I wont peruse a solution with them any longer.

    I already have spoken to the park office and multiple people at the park and a trainer. and also here on the forums(although many don't agree here with my story).

    Milosh is a pretty healthy socialite and sour apples at the park wont stop us from having a good time.

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