"I would worry puppy buyers might end up with expectations their basenjis will respond similarly to yours with very little effort or foundation, all based on behaviors they see in your dogs, obtained via the e-collar. When their basenji does not respond to their naive attempts at training and they turn to the e-collar for help and the dog does not respond as expected; i.e. they shut down, become hyper-vigilant, reactive/aggressive or quake in fear waiting for the next shoe to drop - then what?"
Your key words are all obtained via an e-collar…is that not rather presumptuous on your part? Seriously, have you ever watched me train, even seen my basenjis perform, every privy to anything? No, you really are not. So, a simple statement like that is misleading to those who might read it. Were you malicious, perhaps not and that is only for you to know, but misleading nonetheless, and that is not exactly friendly or responsible. You have no idea what the collar is used for with my basenjis and if you would like to find out, ask those who know or come find out for yourself but please do not try to present what you think I do to anyone else without at least doing your due diligence. If you want to know what I do, have the courage to put your boots on and run with my dogs but please do not write misleading statements about me. I will happily take you out and show you anything you want to see. Perhaps it might not be so bad after all; we both might learn something.
ABSOLUTELY NO TRAINING is done with an E-collar with our basenjis. It is for recall only in dangerous situations. The dogs when hunting will go after anything at times. Unlike a native African, if I can stop my basenji from running headlong into danger, I will. My older male Axel has a thing for bobcats and Phoenix wants deer...both dogs will hunt these animals and try to kill them if possible and they can be so wrapped up in what they think they can do that they cannot get themselves out of a bad situation. The first time I went to an e-collar with Axel was when he went after a fox and was gone for several hours. I do not care what anyone says....an e-collar is great if one wants to let a basenji run as free as possible and mine are free all of the time when we are out.
"I certainly can not see the need to fix something that has seemingly been working for hundreds of years and that something is the ability to work and hunt alongside their canine counterpart, without need of any artificial aid - sans a gourd bell around their neck or groin. If it can work for them, surely it can work for any one of us. And no, I am under no grand delusions they click/treat train their dogs or do not use correction based/physical means but for you to imply, Jeff that a shock collar is the only way to get the best out of a dog, makes me pause and think - how is it native populaces, without the benefits higher westernized education/training methods, can find a way to work alongside their dogs and we say its near impossible?"
"And really - the whole point being - native people do NOT have a choice, therefore they must find a way to be successful, which is much harder IMO, then slapping on a shock collar and compelling a dog to do ones bidding."
Your argument here does not take into account the amount of dogs killed and wounded in action in Africa and I am sure there have been many. Natural selection and skill will determine the survivors and they in turn will create better, more cunning hunters that can survive better. These skills are prized by the locals...they are largely ignored by the pet owner here. I have never run with an african basenji in the field as much as I would like to, but I have hunted dangerous game with lots of dogs in the US to include Basenjis. It is not easy and it is not safe. It is dirty, dangerous, and often bloody work. When hunting dangerous game, the tables can be turned on the hunter very quickly and easily. Dogs get hurt and killed here with all of the technology and skill we have, it still happens. The dogs love the hunt more than anything in the world and will sometimes run headlong into death without hesitation. I am all for natural selection and letting dogs be dogs, but I am not willing to watch my hunting basenjis get mauled or killed by boar, mountain lions, coyotes, or bobcats. Furthermore, if I can stop them from running across the highway while chasing one of these creatures or escape being run over by a car...I will "shock" them until the stop and I do not care what anyone says about it.
I use the collar to keep the dogs from getting into trouble and I have never implied or told you that I use the to get the "best" of of a dog. You are presumptuous due to your emotional connection to the matter.
And by the way, if you could feel your "shock collar" on a low setting, you bought a bad one and how much you paid for it is irrelevant. I know every brand of equipment out there very well; most are not good. Again, a high end collar such as Dogtra 280 or 2300 is imperceptible to a human at its low settings. The better collars are on a rehostat with micro adjustments not big jumps. The vibration feature, not shock, is used 99% of the time. If stimulation is necessary, level of 25-50 work on most dogs. The feeling of that is similar to the electrical simulation devices used in physical therapy.
For what it is worth and I really want to end the collar drama here because it is so distracting...we train working dogs and obedience but none of the skills are learned with the E-collar. There is no need. Not only that, any negative reinforcement for a positive job is an oxymoron from any perspective and we just do not do it. The E-collar is used to control bad behavior and for recall in bad situations. We deal with many dogs that have drive the average person cannot imagine and they can have really bad tendencies. The e-collar can be a necessary component but not always. If you want to publicly debate this...let's go elsewhere.
"Per the OFA you started out great with Axel - getting his CHIC (fanconi, hips, eyes, elbows, patellas and thyroid), then you kind of fell behind the eight ball with Aru (eyes and fanconi only prior to her litter) then even less with Kaden and Phoenix (fanconi only (at this time) for their litter)"
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As for my testing of this litter and as I have stated before...all plans were to do the right thing but the timing Phoenix went into heat while we were gone training at it could not be helped. We had planned to breed her but not at the time it happened. There is no excuse and I said that before, too. I am trying to do the right thing and have asked questions about what is safe during pregnancy. I am aware of all testing but not what could be done during pregnancy, that was new and I wanted advice. I think that was the responsible thing to do and it would be nice to get some credit for it. What seems to have happened is even though I explained the situation, the lack of testing is being used to make it look like it was purposeful and meant to deceive.
Phoenix was seen today by our vet and she will have patella done, hips later as well as Thyroid. Kaden is getting the fully Monty tomorrow.
As far as what we are doing with trying to produce a need for something that was not there before. I am not trying to convince you or any basenji person of the need for a detector dog. However, you have to admit that it is interesting and that is really why I bring it up. Phoenix is going to have five pups and there are no plans for more. If this program goes on, it will probably not be us doing it. Five puppies does not require a huge marketing scheme and I really don't need to sell them. If these pups go to work the basenji community will have very little to do with it but I was excited to tell the Basenji community about it.
Do you not like the idea that we can do something with the basenji because of some of their very unique traits? Does it really matter if it is not for a basenji owner? What if what is done here saves lives one day? Could that not be something to be happy with and of value? There is a very real need for an inconspicuous, nimble, and silent dog that is very careful about how it approaches things in the explosives detection field. Do you not agree that the traits I just mentioned could be attributed to our basenjis? I thought so and decided to get the nose and work drive for humans to go with it. Those traits can be seen vary reliably at seven weeks old. This is the age we test all of our working dogs at and we have never made a mistake. We pick a lot of puppies, too. I am quite certain that anything I test at seven weeks will be a mini mirror of what it will be as an adult. Hopefully, I have more than one or two pups that test well.
My initial draw to the basenji was the ability to hunt because it is one of my passions. What I found was that basenji hunting traits have been severely watered down in the United States. Very few people hunt their B's and I really don't think any breeding has been done with hunting in mind. Agility and lure do not count. The dog is touted as a hunter by many in the basenji world who abhor hunting and a general fancy that does not even recognize it as a field trial. That is a shame, in my opinion. This is one thing that I would like to see change. I did pick the best traits I could from show lines to come up with two hunters. Of all the pups tested from two litters, their were only two. That would not be the case if it were another field line of dogs I was testing. I bred those two in hopes of getting a better hunter and I did. But out of that litter, I only had two and picked one. Kaden was tested and chosen to take it one more step and I hope we have it. Is it guaranteed? No, is it probable that their will be better hunters than before, I think so.
In my opinion, I think we need to maintain hunting traits in the US dogs by recognizing those traits and breeding for them. If we do not, the American Basenji will NEVER be a hunting dog and should not be touted as one.
Please do me a big favor: If you really want to know what we do, come and find out for yourself. I do not want to fight with you or anyone else, but I will not roll over for misinformation.
