I cannot imagine committing to buy a puppy without seeing the animal and if possible the sire and dam. OTOH, a rescue (or adoption of an older dog) is a different thing. My last two Basenjis came to me sight unseen, and turned out to be wonderful dogs, but the breeders I got them from wanted to place their dogs in an experienced Basenji home, and I only paid the cost of getting the dogs to me. One came by air, one was personally transported to me by his breeder. If she hadn't been happy with what she found I expect she would have taken him back with her when she left. I also had to commit to return him if ever I couldn't keep him. Good breeders care about where their dogs end up.
Some *real* sighthounds
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Here a couple of Azawakhs that we met at the European Lure Coursing Championship
They show ribs as well, but in my opinion, they are not too skinny. And I don't think their owner will starve them to make them look like this.. because it wouldn't help with LC
These look far better then the ones in your first post. These have muscles, the previous ones don't. They need to look skinny, that's the way they are, but there is a big difference in skinny and skinny. Here you also see hip-bones, but not pointing out as much as in the other pics. Same for the spine.
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That's also because these one are standing still.. I know that the first Azawakh male in my first post is also a courser.. And he sure has nice musculature..
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It's allways hard to tell from a few pics. But I usually see a big difference in dogs used for shows only, and dogs used for coursing (or other sports). Skinny isn't bad, if the dog has enough muscles to 'strenghten' his body. But if they don't have that, it isn't healthy for them and not nice to look at for me. Then I rather see pure show dogs a bit to fat, then as thin as some judges want them to be. Fat isn't healthy, but neither is to skinny.
Now, I don't know that many Sloughi's and Azawakhs. Those are pretty rare over here, even at coursing events. But guess you know Marein also Janneke? She has some Azawakhs and some Sloughi's (next to a lot of other sighthounds, mostly Afghans). Her dogs look good to me. Not to fat, but also not to skinny. Have to see if I can find some pics of them.
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With Sloughis and Azawakhs there isn't that much of a difference between coursing and showing.. lot's of them are used for the same thing. And the ones that are 'only' being showed aren't kennel dogs that never see the outdoors. The dark red male in my first post is the same male as this one:
This for me is too thin:
Could also be the pic of course.. but it doesn't look ok from this point of view.
In september we will be going to a large Azawakh meeting in Germany. 100+ Azawakhs! I'll make sure to take pictures.. I can't wait to see differences in type and weight.. Would also really like to see pics of Marein's dogs. I do not know her.
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Great photos! Thank you for sharing them. Is that fluffy puppy a powderpuff Chinese Crested?
Yes it is! Such a cutie!!
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With Sloughis and Azawakhs there isn't that much of a difference between coursing and showing.. lot's of them are used for the same thing. And the ones that are 'only' being showed aren't kennel dogs that never see the outdoors. The dark red male in my first post is the same male as this one:
This for me is too thin:
Could also be the pic of course.. but it doesn't look ok from this point of view.
In september we will be going to a large Azawakh meeting in Germany. 100+ Azawakhs! I'll make sure to take pictures.. I can't wait to see differences in type and weight.. Would also really like to see pics of Marein's dogs. I do not know her.
Both dogs look far too thin to me
I have seen azawakhs that are covered - no bones showing. Not fat by any means, but well muscled with no bones prominent like these. And the ones your last post looked better, still a bit skinny for me but more covered. There is no reason for them to be skin and bone that I can think of… I personally would not keep any of my dogs in that condition whether its fashionable or not, if nothing else, over here a dog like that would guarantee a visit from the RSPCA!!! :eek:
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To show the impact of a picture.. Tillo again
It's hard to keep weight on Tillo in the winter. So this is Tillo at 9.8 kg (21.6 pounds)He looks nice in this pic
And maybe too thin in this one
And to see some different weigths on Tillo
A couple of months later.. 10.1 kg (22.3 pounds)
Two months after that, 10.5 kg (23.2 pounds) (he became a Dutch champ that day ;))
And Tillo too fat, 11.5 kg (25.4 pounds), the first spring/summer we forgot to change Tillo's amount of food after the winter.. ggg… (so this was a 'before' compaired to the pics above)
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Both dogs look far too thin to me
I have seen azawakhs that are covered - no bones showing. Not fat by any means, but well muscled with no bones prominent like these. And the ones your last post looked better, still a bit skinny for me but more covered. There is no reason for them to be skin and bone that I can think of… I personally would not keep any of my dogs in that condition whether its fashionable or not, if nothing else, over here a dog like that would guarantee a visit from the RSPCA!!! :eek:
I've seen Azawakhs that are more covered as well and I would try to 'fat them up' as well. But I can't say that all the Azawakhs in the show pics in my first post are too thin. And I still rather see this than the heavily overweighted dogs I see in some breeds, like for example the Labrador. Can't be good either..
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I've seen Azawakhs that are more covered as well and I would try to 'fat them up' as well. But I can't say that all the Azawakhs in the show pics in my first post are too thin. And I still rather see this than the heavily overweighted dogs I see in some breeds, like for example the Labrador. Can't be good either..
Ah, the "too fat, too thin" argument. I will admit to preferring dogs on the thin side…...I don't like to see obesity. But if you have ever dealt with a serious illness, where the animal loses a lot of weight, being a shade too fat to begin with can literally be a life saver. I have more experience with horses in this area, but an animal that is thin to begin with doesn't have a lot to go on if it gets sick. JMHO.
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I have a very sick labrador at the moment who is losing weight no matter how much we feed him up. He is currently being tested for EPI or cancer - those are the two options
He has lost over 12kg in about 4 months. He was never allowed to be fat, but he was well covered and healthy. I think if he had been kept very slim with bones showing he would be dead. As it is, we're struggling to keep enough weight on him to stop his ribs and hip bones showing… Its very upsetting to see a much loved pet reduced to that and I could never keep my dogs in that condition out of choice, it is not right. Labradors especially are designed to carry a little extra weight (not to be fat, but in comparison to a hound type dog) as they were used as gundogs, having to swim in freezing cold water - its how their bodies are supposed to be. I have googled, and have uyet to find anything advising that azawakhs (or any other breed) should be kept so thin, nor does the breed standard say anything about it so I wonder why its done? If you look at any wild dog, even they are not that thin unless they are sick so I cant think its just natural??BUT, I do agree that most in the first post look just fine, it was only a couple that i didnt like to see with such prominent ribs and hip bones.
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I don't mean to offend anyone but many pet owners are so accustomed to seeing dogs who are overweight that when they see one in perfect weight and condition they think it is too thin.
That said, I do feel that some of the dogs pictured could stand to gain a tiny bit of weight.
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Robyn, I agree. I think its very easy to for pet owners to plump up their dogs. That being said, one of the photos, to me, looked too thin. Just my opinion.
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I have a very sick labrador at the moment who is losing weight no matter how much we feed him up. He is currently being tested for EPI or cancer - those are the two options
He has lost over 12kg in about 4 months. He was never allowed to be fat, but he was well covered and healthy. I think if he had been kept very slim with bones showing he would be dead. As it is, we're struggling to keep enough weight on him to stop his ribs and hip bones showing… Its very upsetting to see a much loved pet reduced to that and I could never keep my dogs in that condition out of choice, it is not right. Labradors especially are designed to carry a little extra weight (not to be fat, but in comparison to a hound type dog) as they were used as gundogs, having to swim in freezing cold water - its how their bodies are supposed to be. I have googled, and have uyet to find anything advising that azawakhs (or any other breed) should be kept so thin, nor does the breed standard say anything about it so I wonder why its done? If you look at any wild dog, even they are not that thin unless they are sick so I cant think its just natural??BUT, I do agree that most in the first post look just fine, it was only a couple that i didnt like to see with such prominent ribs and hip bones.
I'm really sorry to hear about your Labrador, Jess. I hope the vets will find the cause soon and I'm sending positive thoughts that he will get better.
I really do wonder if thin dogs have more problems or a smaller chance of survival if they get ill. Would be interesting to find out.. I don't really believe that a dog is designed to carry extra weight. If I look at Lab pics, a lot of them are way too fat for me. I like them like this:
Not like this:
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I don't mean to offend anyone but many pet owners are so accustomed to seeing dogs who are overweight that when they see one in perfect weight and condition they think it is too thin.
That said, I do feel that some of the dogs pictured could stand to gain a tiny bit of weight.
I completely agree with this!
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I agree with Yodeldog's statement too. This thread and the pictures have also been very informative about different types of "skinny" that fit each breed. I guess the thing is I haven't seen enough of the rare sighthounds with dry musculature to really know what is "normal." But I also think most people's perceptions of what is normal is based on other more common dogs like Labradors, retrievers, beagles, whatnot… though obviously these types of dogs have VERY different frames, not to mention functions! I have heard of greyhound owners, for example, whose neighbors have called animal welfare authorities on them because they think the dogs are being starved, when it's truly not the case. Then I guess there's also the way that our own experiences with weight and body perception affect the way that we see our dogs.
So long as our own dogs don't develop body image issues like children whose parents are constantly telling them they're "too fat" or "too skinny", etc...
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I'm really sorry to hear about your Labrador, Jess. I hope the vets will find the cause soon and I'm sending positive thoughts that he will get better.
I really do wonder if thin dogs have more problems or a smaller chance of survival if they get ill. Would be interesting to find out.. I don't really believe that a dog is designed to carry extra weight. If I look at Lab pics, a lot of them are way too fat for me. I like them like this:
Not like this:
The last one is ideal, the one above that is too fat. The one with the frenchie is too thin (IMO) but the others are nice. You have posted two different types there, the top ones are the working ones (taller, finer, less heavily built) and the bottom ones are show type, but the black one is far too fat. If you consider the difference in their builds and conformation, the yellow at the bottom is not actually carrying anymore weight than the first three you posted - he has a nice waist and is not "fat".
They were bred to carry an extra layer of protective "fat" as they dont have the big, protective coats of breeds like the Newfoundland which were also used as water dogs, but they are not supposed to be fat
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Jess I am so sorry to hear of your labrador..hoping answers are found and treatment is effective.
I have to agree with Robyn as well..it is the same with babies..we are so used to seeing and associating plump/really fat babies with health that when you see a baby at ideal weight it is often said to be to thin..hmmm, the curse of the Western World..
I love the sighthounds sleek bodies and apperance, but yes, they can get to be tooo skinny and I don't like that either…and good muscule tone is highly important, not only for looks but also for sustainability, whether coursing or showing or just living the home life, if that makes any sense at all. :).
Moses is a sight hound, being that he is a portuguese podengo grande..he is very very muscular and has an extremely healthy appetite :)..meaning if he doesn't get fed what he thinks he needs, he will serve himself..usually healthy snacks like some fruit out of the fruit bowl (on the counter) or a raw egg out of the coop..;)..
We have the luxury of having his brother Fiz not far from here so we see him from time to time and he is very different in his body, very thin and not at all as muscular, he shows in obedience and rally, something Moses doesn't, Moses simply lives the happy hunt-for-deer and an occasional bunny kind of life and he thrives on Podengo-900's. I don't know which one would be preferred as far as in conformation (we did a fun match a year and half ago, were Moses won), but since they aren't recognized yet by AKC we have to wait and find out..although I know my favorite ;), partial that I am..haha
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The Sloughis, Salukis and Azawakhs come from Africa which is probably as far as the origins of the Labrador (Canada) than you get.
As Janneke said a greyhound is all about sprint muscle - the limit of their ability to run is because they would overheat if they needed to do prolonged activity as muslce produces heat when being used - even in Ireland and UK, not known for their temperatures above 20 when rabbits/hares would be in the fields for hunting. My ex-coursing greyhound mix would find a puddle in the coldest of days after a sprint to cool herself down.
The Azawakhs, Salukis and Sloughis need to be able to hunt in much hotter temps, mid to high 20s and probably more, therefore they cannot have either fat layer or the rounded muscle of the greyhound as they would suffer from muscle meltdown, even after a short chase, let alone an extended hunt.
Therefore their physiology has evolved to have the sparest of muscle (minimal heat generated, and maximum heat dissipated when exercising), which in turn means they can never get the well-covered look of our temperate climate breed dogs.
I would be devastated if we in the West change the most basic characteristic of these breeds simply because we don't like the look of it, either because its different compared to our temperate climate breeds, our perception of what is healthy has become so distorted because we are used to seeing fat as normal or we are too lazy to educate ourselves about what is different. I can well appreciate that these dogs do not appeal to everyone but surely that is no reason to change them?
I think some of these dogs that were thought 'too skinny' were immature which is why their bones are more prominent, they've yet to get their full muscle, sparse as it is, which adds shape.
Also I hate to see a fat layer on any dog - muscle yes, fat no. The fact that some folks starve any dog before a show just shows their ignorance, and laziness in not getting the dog into proper fit condition and using 'short cuts' to get the desired 'well muscled-look'. Rather than get the 'look', they should get the real thing! Their dogs would be much happier too I'm sure.
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I so agree with Jaycee. In my opinion many people are too involved in changing dogs to fit the show ring. Some of the Azawakhs posted appear too thin to me but I wouldn't give an opinion without actually seeing them in the flesh and knowing their ages too. Having said that there seem to be owners who don't understand and think that starving a dog gives it the correct outline not realsiing that it's all in the function and muscle is what counts.
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I think the dogs must be seen individually, our Chaffie is looking "normal to thin" I don't like completely thin.
Buana, looks much heavier BUT you can feel his ribs as good as Chaffies ribs.
If I post a picture of Buana, you would say, he have to loose (some) weight. But if you feel him, he should not loose much more weight.A picture is nice for a small opinion but you have to see them for the complete opinion.
From the first pictures, I really don't like the very thin dogs.
And I totally agree, people are so used to fat dogs!
If a dog is really too fat, nobody will speak up in the street (I can't resist telling the owners ), but when we walked our Podenco (really not to thin) everybody had something to say…
