I cannot imagine committing to buy a puppy without seeing the animal and if possible the sire and dam. OTOH, a rescue (or adoption of an older dog) is a different thing. My last two Basenjis came to me sight unseen, and turned out to be wonderful dogs, but the breeders I got them from wanted to place their dogs in an experienced Basenji home, and I only paid the cost of getting the dogs to me. One came by air, one was personally transported to me by his breeder. If she hadn't been happy with what she found I expect she would have taken him back with her when she left. I also had to commit to return him if ever I couldn't keep him. Good breeders care about where their dogs end up.
Some *real* sighthounds
-
I feel the same way. Ribs showing with some of the breeds is one thing, but on some pics you can see the spine and hip bones pointing out. That's a bit to much.
But you often see that at dog shows. Not only with sighthounds. The last few times I went to a dog show, most of the staffords, dogo argentino's… also had that. Have been talking to some, and they do it just because some of the judges like it that way. They starve their dog a bit for a week or 2 to get that look for the show, and then start feeding them normal portions again after the show.
Not something I would do, but according to them, it's the only way to win a show...Voodoo, I agree with you regarding the hip bones showing. That just doesn't look healthy to me.
Also, regarding 'starving' the dogs for a couple of weeks to get that look, I think that is unhealthy. When you starve a dog, I would think more complex internal changes happen other than just the look. -
Unless an animal is working extremely hard, I don't think they should be "ribby". And I certainly don't like to see hipbones prominent! I used to walk a Greyhound for a disabled woman. This dog was athletic, but not thin. Her ribs could be felt and certainly seen when she exerted herself, but were not obvious otherwise, and certainly no protruding hipbones! If an animal is running from sunrise to sunset, it may be in extremely fit condition, but then the muscling will be more pronounced and normally the hip bones will not be prominent, to say nothing of protruding vertebrae! It is well known that race horses that are down in weight seldom win races! There is a reason for that. IMHO, show dogs can only be kept this thin by underfeeding them.
-
Don't forget that a Greyhound is a very different breed than the Azawakh or Sloughi. A greyhound is a sprinter, with more 'bulky' muscles, just like a Whippet. They won't show their hipbones as fast and prominent as a long distance runner, like the Azawakh or Sloughi, that have very flat muscles.
And I rather see a bit too much rib than dogs with too much fat. Certainly because an owner quickly thinks his/her dog is skinny.. when it isn't.. Lots of owners totally miss the fact that their dog can loose some pounds :S
Here a couple of Azawakhs that we met at the European Lure Coursing Championship
They show ribs as well, but in my opinion, they are not too skinny. And I don't think their owner will starve them to make them look like this.. because it wouldn't help with LC
I showed some pics of Tillo in the other thread, and a lot of Basenji people I meet think Tillo is too skinny when he looks like that.. I can't understand it :S
-
Isn't the reason the likes of the Sloughi and Azawakh are so thin, something to do with the way they store (or not store) fat?? I have a friend who breeds Salukis and I'm sure she told me this.
-
Here a couple of Azawakhs that we met at the European Lure Coursing Championship
They show ribs as well, but in my opinion, they are not too skinny. And I don't think their owner will starve them to make them look like this.. because it wouldn't help with LC
These look far better then the ones in your first post. These have muscles, the previous ones don't. They need to look skinny, that's the way they are, but there is a big difference in skinny and skinny. Here you also see hip-bones, but not pointing out as much as in the other pics. Same for the spine.
-
That's also because these one are standing still.. I know that the first Azawakh male in my first post is also a courser.. And he sure has nice musculature..
-
It's allways hard to tell from a few pics. But I usually see a big difference in dogs used for shows only, and dogs used for coursing (or other sports). Skinny isn't bad, if the dog has enough muscles to 'strenghten' his body. But if they don't have that, it isn't healthy for them and not nice to look at for me. Then I rather see pure show dogs a bit to fat, then as thin as some judges want them to be. Fat isn't healthy, but neither is to skinny.
Now, I don't know that many Sloughi's and Azawakhs. Those are pretty rare over here, even at coursing events. But guess you know Marein also Janneke? She has some Azawakhs and some Sloughi's (next to a lot of other sighthounds, mostly Afghans). Her dogs look good to me. Not to fat, but also not to skinny. Have to see if I can find some pics of them.
-
With Sloughis and Azawakhs there isn't that much of a difference between coursing and showing.. lot's of them are used for the same thing. And the ones that are 'only' being showed aren't kennel dogs that never see the outdoors. The dark red male in my first post is the same male as this one:
This for me is too thin:
Could also be the pic of course.. but it doesn't look ok from this point of view.
In september we will be going to a large Azawakh meeting in Germany. 100+ Azawakhs! I'll make sure to take pictures.. I can't wait to see differences in type and weight.. Would also really like to see pics of Marein's dogs. I do not know her.
-
Great photos! Thank you for sharing them. Is that fluffy puppy a powderpuff Chinese Crested?
Yes it is! Such a cutie!!
-
With Sloughis and Azawakhs there isn't that much of a difference between coursing and showing.. lot's of them are used for the same thing. And the ones that are 'only' being showed aren't kennel dogs that never see the outdoors. The dark red male in my first post is the same male as this one:
This for me is too thin:
Could also be the pic of course.. but it doesn't look ok from this point of view.
In september we will be going to a large Azawakh meeting in Germany. 100+ Azawakhs! I'll make sure to take pictures.. I can't wait to see differences in type and weight.. Would also really like to see pics of Marein's dogs. I do not know her.
Both dogs look far too thin to me
I have seen azawakhs that are covered - no bones showing. Not fat by any means, but well muscled with no bones prominent like these. And the ones your last post looked better, still a bit skinny for me but more covered. There is no reason for them to be skin and bone that I can think of… I personally would not keep any of my dogs in that condition whether its fashionable or not, if nothing else, over here a dog like that would guarantee a visit from the RSPCA!!! :eek:
-
To show the impact of a picture.. Tillo again
It's hard to keep weight on Tillo in the winter. So this is Tillo at 9.8 kg (21.6 pounds)He looks nice in this pic
And maybe too thin in this one
And to see some different weigths on Tillo
A couple of months later.. 10.1 kg (22.3 pounds)
Two months after that, 10.5 kg (23.2 pounds) (he became a Dutch champ that day ;))
And Tillo too fat, 11.5 kg (25.4 pounds), the first spring/summer we forgot to change Tillo's amount of food after the winter.. ggg… (so this was a 'before' compaired to the pics above)
-
Both dogs look far too thin to me
I have seen azawakhs that are covered - no bones showing. Not fat by any means, but well muscled with no bones prominent like these. And the ones your last post looked better, still a bit skinny for me but more covered. There is no reason for them to be skin and bone that I can think of… I personally would not keep any of my dogs in that condition whether its fashionable or not, if nothing else, over here a dog like that would guarantee a visit from the RSPCA!!! :eek:
I've seen Azawakhs that are more covered as well and I would try to 'fat them up' as well. But I can't say that all the Azawakhs in the show pics in my first post are too thin. And I still rather see this than the heavily overweighted dogs I see in some breeds, like for example the Labrador. Can't be good either..
-
I've seen Azawakhs that are more covered as well and I would try to 'fat them up' as well. But I can't say that all the Azawakhs in the show pics in my first post are too thin. And I still rather see this than the heavily overweighted dogs I see in some breeds, like for example the Labrador. Can't be good either..
Ah, the "too fat, too thin" argument. I will admit to preferring dogs on the thin side…...I don't like to see obesity. But if you have ever dealt with a serious illness, where the animal loses a lot of weight, being a shade too fat to begin with can literally be a life saver. I have more experience with horses in this area, but an animal that is thin to begin with doesn't have a lot to go on if it gets sick. JMHO.
-
I have a very sick labrador at the moment who is losing weight no matter how much we feed him up. He is currently being tested for EPI or cancer - those are the two options
He has lost over 12kg in about 4 months. He was never allowed to be fat, but he was well covered and healthy. I think if he had been kept very slim with bones showing he would be dead. As it is, we're struggling to keep enough weight on him to stop his ribs and hip bones showing… Its very upsetting to see a much loved pet reduced to that and I could never keep my dogs in that condition out of choice, it is not right. Labradors especially are designed to carry a little extra weight (not to be fat, but in comparison to a hound type dog) as they were used as gundogs, having to swim in freezing cold water - its how their bodies are supposed to be. I have googled, and have uyet to find anything advising that azawakhs (or any other breed) should be kept so thin, nor does the breed standard say anything about it so I wonder why its done? If you look at any wild dog, even they are not that thin unless they are sick so I cant think its just natural??BUT, I do agree that most in the first post look just fine, it was only a couple that i didnt like to see with such prominent ribs and hip bones.
-
I don't mean to offend anyone but many pet owners are so accustomed to seeing dogs who are overweight that when they see one in perfect weight and condition they think it is too thin.
That said, I do feel that some of the dogs pictured could stand to gain a tiny bit of weight.
-
Robyn, I agree. I think its very easy to for pet owners to plump up their dogs. That being said, one of the photos, to me, looked too thin. Just my opinion.
-
I have a very sick labrador at the moment who is losing weight no matter how much we feed him up. He is currently being tested for EPI or cancer - those are the two options
He has lost over 12kg in about 4 months. He was never allowed to be fat, but he was well covered and healthy. I think if he had been kept very slim with bones showing he would be dead. As it is, we're struggling to keep enough weight on him to stop his ribs and hip bones showing… Its very upsetting to see a much loved pet reduced to that and I could never keep my dogs in that condition out of choice, it is not right. Labradors especially are designed to carry a little extra weight (not to be fat, but in comparison to a hound type dog) as they were used as gundogs, having to swim in freezing cold water - its how their bodies are supposed to be. I have googled, and have uyet to find anything advising that azawakhs (or any other breed) should be kept so thin, nor does the breed standard say anything about it so I wonder why its done? If you look at any wild dog, even they are not that thin unless they are sick so I cant think its just natural??BUT, I do agree that most in the first post look just fine, it was only a couple that i didnt like to see with such prominent ribs and hip bones.
I'm really sorry to hear about your Labrador, Jess. I hope the vets will find the cause soon and I'm sending positive thoughts that he will get better.
I really do wonder if thin dogs have more problems or a smaller chance of survival if they get ill. Would be interesting to find out.. I don't really believe that a dog is designed to carry extra weight. If I look at Lab pics, a lot of them are way too fat for me. I like them like this:
Not like this:
-
I don't mean to offend anyone but many pet owners are so accustomed to seeing dogs who are overweight that when they see one in perfect weight and condition they think it is too thin.
That said, I do feel that some of the dogs pictured could stand to gain a tiny bit of weight.
I completely agree with this!
-
I agree with Yodeldog's statement too. This thread and the pictures have also been very informative about different types of "skinny" that fit each breed. I guess the thing is I haven't seen enough of the rare sighthounds with dry musculature to really know what is "normal." But I also think most people's perceptions of what is normal is based on other more common dogs like Labradors, retrievers, beagles, whatnot… though obviously these types of dogs have VERY different frames, not to mention functions! I have heard of greyhound owners, for example, whose neighbors have called animal welfare authorities on them because they think the dogs are being starved, when it's truly not the case. Then I guess there's also the way that our own experiences with weight and body perception affect the way that we see our dogs.
So long as our own dogs don't develop body image issues like children whose parents are constantly telling them they're "too fat" or "too skinny", etc...
-
I'm really sorry to hear about your Labrador, Jess. I hope the vets will find the cause soon and I'm sending positive thoughts that he will get better.
I really do wonder if thin dogs have more problems or a smaller chance of survival if they get ill. Would be interesting to find out.. I don't really believe that a dog is designed to carry extra weight. If I look at Lab pics, a lot of them are way too fat for me. I like them like this:
Not like this:
The last one is ideal, the one above that is too fat. The one with the frenchie is too thin (IMO) but the others are nice. You have posted two different types there, the top ones are the working ones (taller, finer, less heavily built) and the bottom ones are show type, but the black one is far too fat. If you consider the difference in their builds and conformation, the yellow at the bottom is not actually carrying anymore weight than the first three you posted - he has a nice waist and is not "fat".
They were bred to carry an extra layer of protective "fat" as they dont have the big, protective coats of breeds like the Newfoundland which were also used as water dogs, but they are not supposed to be fat
