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Basenji ribs - to see or not to see?

Basenji Health Issues & Questions
  • @tanza:

    There was a bitch showing up here a couple of years ago that was very, very thin…. I thought the same thing... the comments were that she eats like a horse but runs it all off... funny thing was, she was on the road with a handler and really no place to run, so to speak.....

    Who was the bitch? Did you get a catalog?

    I would be wondering about exocrine pancreatic insufficiency (EPI). I don't believe it is common in Basenjis, but my sister had a GSD with the problem. She ate and ate, had huge loose stools, and could not gain weight. Unfortunately she died of bloat before they figured out what her problem was….

    I did find a thread on here that tells of a Basenji with the condition:

    http://www.basenjiforums.com/showthread.php?t=7053

  • Saba, thanks for investigating! I hope something comes out of your inquiries… maybe it's a long shot.

    Janneke, those pictures are helpful. The one of the Azawakh in particular is in line with other Azawakh pictures I've seen. Somewhere I recall a breed description of Sloughis describing their musculature as similarly "dry" (Wikipedia says that too). At any rate, I don't get to see many of those breeds to compare! =) As for Tillo, while he has some visible ribs, he's always struck me as a brawny, athletic dog -- his muscles are clear and he looks great.

    I just checked out Google translate's version. I am very amused by the literal translation of "shellfish raw guitar dogs." But yeah, you can actually get a sense of some of the article.

  • @curlytails:

    Debra, I read and speak Chinese.
    Sorry for the shocker re: pictures in the article, guys…

    I am impressed. Chinese looks so hard.

    Shocker? No, just sad. Someone posted a pic on Facebook with a dog with its throat cut (it lived but the picture was horrific). That was really unnecessary imho.

    @Janneke:

    My absolute favorite breed (in looks) is the Azawakh..
    Tillo (or any other basenji) for me, looks perfect when you can see the ribs as soon as they starts to move,

    I had never heard of Azawakh before. Impressive looking dogs! But I googled them and most look healthy, muscled, thin but not emaciated. I could get used to that. :)
    Yes, Tillo looks perfect.

  • Tanza, I don't know, and no..I did not get the catalog, will try to find out who it was though.

  • @Basenjimamma:

    Tanza, I don't know, and no..I did not get the catalog, will try to find out who it was though.

    Not important. The catalog with the results will be on Onofrio site soon.

  • I was told at the dog show this past weekend that my dog could drop a pound or two and he would do better for showing. Because he is a hound he should have a more defined tuck. The dogs I was showing against looked thin….like you could see their ribs...they were puppies though, but I thought my boy was at a really nice weight. So now I am a little confused too.

  • @krunzer:

    I was told at the dog show this past weekend that my dog could drop a pound or two and he would do better for showing. Because he is a hound he should have a more defined tuck. The dogs I was showing against looked thin….like you could see their ribs...they were puppies though, but I thought my boy was at a really nice weight. So now I am a little confused too.

    The pictures of Tillo show an adult male dog of perfect condition and weight. Sometimes puppies might be a bit thin or even a bit fat depending on their growth cycle.

  • We have had Bs for over 34 years. We have bred our own, shown our own or had them from a show breeder and have always had lovely conformations, sleek, ribs just showing when in dead runs across the yard. Now we are slaves to our rescue Kell, all 40.6 lbs of him. Our girls are 17 1/2 lbs and 18 lbs. Kell is 5 inches taller at the should than they are, a much heavier frame. His conformation is just rotten, his tummy does not tuck up into a waist at all, there are muscles on him that look like they are double the size they should be. He gets 1/3 cup of dog food plus 2 tbsps, Taste of the Wild Venison/Bison or fowl, and that is exactly what the 2 light weighs get with the exception of the additional 2 TBSPs. He gets the exact same number and type of treats they get for going into their crates. You can see his muscles on his rear and front shoulders. He has the widest chest of any B we have ever had. He is fast, he wears both the girsl out with his antics. He is 19 months old now and still a very BIG puppy. Duane says we need to get him a tummy tuck to get him a waist. He just has lots of loose skin around his waist. And pardon me, but he has the smallest penis I have ever seen on a dog his size. But for all the conformation faults, if we could insert his disposition into all Bs, they would all be love buckets. He adores being petted, talked to, and he almost always answers us back when we talk to him.

  • ROFLMAO, that is so much the Wimauma dogs. Horrible looks, HUGE giant monsters, and omg personalities to die for. I stretched Arwen, who is 24 pounds, and then Cara, who is about 35 pounds. Neither fat, but Cara's reach is over a foot more than Arwen–- she is about 3 to 4 inches taller and a good 4 inches longer. I told her the other day she was a giant and my husband said "Well she can't be TOTALLY PERFECT! She is perfect in every other way!"

    Well no, she has no tuck, she is higher in the rear, floppy ears, light eyes and one drifts out. A vision of beauty she isn't, but I have rarely met a sweeter dog of any breed.

    On dogs... sigh. I like to be able to almost see a rib on a Rottie, but for the show, they want them definitely overweight. Muscles but over weight.

  • I wish Spencer's ribs wouldn't show. His backbone and butt have gotten bony, too. He eats well and takes vitamins and supplements, but he's just gotten thin. The vet thinks he looks good for his age, but I think he looks like a skinny little old man. I guess that's what he is. Sigh.

  • How old is Spencer? and have they done any other tests on him?

  • Spencer will be 14 this fall. He has Fanconi, so we have a vet check, bloodwork and urinalysis done every 4 months. We got "normal" (for him) results back this month, and he was negative for worms. The vet thinks he looks good, but he's starting to lose muscle mass and I think he looks bony.

  • Diggie goes swimming once a week to help build muscles. (he'll be 15 in december) it has helped, much to Digital's dismay

  • Those Basenjis are way too thin. The Sloughi is a bit thin too but the angle of the photo may be making it look worse than it is. When you get up close to them or run your hand over them, many sighthound breeds will have noticable hipbones. The thin coats and lack of body fat is the reason. The Azawahk is one of the most noticable and it really shows up in photos. Afghans are also prominant.

  • Way too thin! I believe that is beyond a cultural preference.

  • Ok I have been doing a bit of digging, but I have to be honest in that Im bitterly disappointed in the lack of responses Ive had. I think I might have sent out about 30 odd emails, all over Australia, and I have only got about 5 back, (including a very sarcastic one :confused:), most of them just wishing me good luck :mad: :mad: :mad:…

    Anyway I havent been able to get a lot of info. One person thought they knew who it may have been, but just as I was going send them an email, I got an email from the 1st person, saying that the timeline was wrong, and these 2 dogs would be progeny of the exports...

    So that leaves me slightly jaded, but not a lot clearer... In saying that Curlytails has given me another lead or two to follow, which I will get on to shortly. Thank you Curlytails for the info you found, I will chase up some of the exhibitors, (hope to get a response :(, ) and post anything I find out here...

  • Thank you for your detective work, Saba. I think it's a hard "case," but I do think that if I were the original breeder of these dogs, I would want to know what happened to them. Even as a lover of the breed, it makes me feel sad and helpless to see those pictures. I certainly can't jump on a plane to fetch those dogs, and I don't reasonably expect the original breeder to, either. But if it serves as an eye-opening example of what happens when you don't keep in touch with your puppy people, then maybe some good will come out of it…

    Meanwhile, just as you posted this, Saba, I received an e-mail from someone who was able to do more thorough detective work. They found the Malaysian Basenji owner's Rottweiler kennel, and there's full contact info there, including e-mail. I will leave you more info.

    I would like to send him an e-mail myself, but I have to think about what to say. I get angry whenever I look at that article and those pictures, but I don't think I would get very far if I just went in there guns blazing. The welfare of those two Basenjis is what concerns me. If they are sick, I hope they are getting medical attention. If they are not being fed, maybe there's a local animal welfare agency I can contact. I know there are cases like this all over the world, every day, and many far worse. It just appalls me that someone can call themselves a "dog expert" and a "top kennel," yet have dogs in such condition -- and PROUDLY display them for the press!

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27 Jul 2011, 17:47

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    @jengosmonkey That is a very interesting link. My girl suffered none of the possible side effects. No lethargy, listlessness, weight gain and her shape remained immaculate till the day she died. But she no longer suffered from IBS.
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    I too am sorry for not seeing this thread sooner and hopefully the poster will return. My Basenji had some teeth removed and the vet prescribed Carprofen as the follow up antibiotic. My Basenji turned out to be allergic to Carprofen which caused her liver to fail. I went through the same scenario you are describing. She gradually quit eating over the course of several days and then her water consumption started to go down. The eating had me worried since she had an excellent appetite upon return from the vet and the final purging of the anesthesia from her system. Nevertheless, her condition started to degrade. I followed her outside and watched her urinate. Her urine was a very bright yellow. I suspected then a liver issue. Once back inside she was shivering - off to the vet we went. LIver panel blood work up showed very high on specific indicators for failing liver. Vet prescribed Denamarin (containing SAM-e and silybin). SAM-e helps protect liver cells from cell death and aids in cell repair and regeneration. The Vet also started fluid injections. Fluid injections were everyday for two weeks. My Basenji showed a remarkable response to the fluid injections becoming much more her normal self even after the first day. She hated the injections and I could hear her cry when receiving them at the vet (believe me that will tear you up). But she was doing better and she (me) were going to have to tuff this out. Also a different antibiotic was prescribed to prevent liver infection during recovery. The Denamarin comes in dosages based on weight (medium for us). It is the size of a large human like solid oblong vitamin pill. Instructions want you to give it on an empty stomach and preferably not to cut it or place in something similar to a pill pocket however you can if necessary. My Basenji would not take that size (can't blame her). Cutting and disguising it did not work either. I was frantic and got the SAM-e in powder form. I couldn't slip her that either. All though some folks had success with peanut butter and liverwurst. I finally after three days had to have the vet pill her along with her fluid treatments. A week later another blood sample and her liver panel indicators were coming down. The pilling would last for a month and it took two people to get the pill down her. The important part is - she fully recovered from the liver failure. She is 13 1/2 yrs old. My experience after having 5 Basenjis is that the breed is sensitive to medications (anesthesia also). Many of the medications work just fine in most other breeds and mixes. The vet, if not that experienced with the Basenji, must be cautioned. Mine was not. Before accepting any medication have the vet go over any contraindications with you and to double check their resources for potential side effects when dealing with Basenjis. They may switch to something else if a medication has a bad track history with Basenjis. Know what to watch for should your Basenji start to react in a non-positive manner. The poster did not indicate if there were medications in play when the dog started showing degenerating conditions. I sincerely hopes this helps in some way and helps other Basenji owners
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