Test Results

[caseeno8]

"Jagger" Karnaks Raven Rock N Rollin', my first and only basenji is probably clear/normal for fanconi syndrome. Just received results in mail yesterday and it really made my day to say the least.

Chris Battistelli
Pennsylvania

[Kipawa]

That is the BEST news! How old is Jagger? Was he from clear/clear parents or clear/carrier parents? We'd love to see more pictures.

[Basenjimamma]

Awesome news:)

[tanza]

According to Sally's site, he is from a clear Sire and IND Dam, who was from a clear sire (same sire as my Franie) out of an IND bitch.

[DebraDownSouth]

? IND… do they retest

Am I wrong because I just found this stating something I think is absolutely wrong...that IND will NOT be affected. Since there are "probable clear" who have indeed come down with Fanconi (Gronto's own dog for example), I do hope someone explains why I am wrong or this gets rephrased.

http://khanisbasenjis.com/fanconi.html

IND = Indeterminate, or Indeterminate between Probable Clear and Probable Carrier
(this dog will NOT become affected with Fanconi Syndrome)<<<

[tanza]

@DebraDownSouth:

? IND… do they retest

Am I wrong because I just found this stating something I think is absolutely wrong...that IND will NOT be affected. Since there are "probable clear" who have indeed come down with Fanconi (Gronto's own dog for example), I do hope someone explains why I am wrong or this gets rephrased.

http://khanisbasenjis.com/fanconi.html

IND = Indeterminate, or Indeterminate between Probable Clear and Probable Carrier
(this dog will NOT become affected with Fanconi Syndrome)<<<

This is not a misquote, this is directly from the U of Mo in their evaluation of the marker test. Remember this is how it was relayed to the public when the test first came out in 2007. And as far as I know, Dr. Johnson still stands behind this regarding IND's.

As already pointed out, we are seeing results that are inconsistent with the test results, but again, pointed out this is a Marker Test at this time.

[khanis]

@DebraDownSouth:

? IND… do they retest

Am I wrong because I just found this stating something I think is absolutely wrong...that IND will NOT be affected. Since there are "probable clear" who have indeed come down with Fanconi (Gronto's own dog for example), I do hope someone explains why I am wrong or this gets rephrased.

http://khanisbasenjis.com/fanconi.html

IND = Indeterminate, or Indeterminate between Probable Clear and Probable Carrier
(this dog will NOT become affected with Fanconi Syndrome)<<<

Please note there is only ONE dog that is said to be Affected that tested Clear. This is Gonto's dog.

There are only TWO dogs that test as Carriers but ended up spilling sugar, therefore were Affected. Both have since passed away to Fanconi Syndrome. One of these was mine and multiple tests prove she DID test as a Carrier. I am of the understanding that her DNA must have recombined, giving her the Carrier status, even though she was actually Affected.

We are to treat the IND as Carriers for breeding purposes. Since we do not have a definite assurance they are Clear, it is the wisest plan of action.

[tanza]

Ace and Diamond tested Carrier and are now affected, I don't think they have crossed the rainbow bridge?

[sharronhurlbut]

Good news on Jaggers results.

[khanis]

@tanza:

Ace and Diamond tested Carrier and are now affected, I don't think they have crossed the rainbow bridge?

Actually Pat, there was a data entry error.
When re-testing their original DNA, they are Affecteds.
New cheek swabs show them as Affecteds.

As I said, and this was confirmed with Jon over the past weekend, there were ONLY TWO Basenjis that tested as Carriers AND spilled sugar.
It would not have mattered how many times they were tested, their DNA still showed them as Carriers. Period.
It wasn't a human error in the lab. It is their funky DNA.

Neither Diamond nor Ace actually TEST as a CARRIER.
Their DNA shows Affected, which stands to reason they are spilling sugar.
Obviously it was their health that prompted the need for another test.

[tanza]

The results that they received were Carriers, Kathy, by their own statements (the owners)…. so I am sure that both owners considered them safe. We now know different and that strip testing is still need.

I am not knocking the test, only stating what is

[DebraDownSouth]

Okay so here is the ultimate bottom line. It doesn't MATTER if they RETEST and show as affected. Your site CLAIMS that a dog that tests as IND WILL NOT DEVELOP FANCONI. You don't put one word of warning that this statement ASSumes the test was correct, that the dog COULD develop it and it COULD be retested to discover it really is a carrier or effected. That is my concern. It is not accurate to say just having the test means anything absolutely.

[Kipawa]

For those who have companion basenjis (like me), regardless of what results we get back, we will test strip Kipawa monthly. It is such a small thing to do (the time involved). However, for breeders, getting back 'funky' results must really be a pain. Not because you have to run around with pee sticks, but because the unexpected results would impact your breeding program.

[sharronhurlbut]

Fran, it just breaks my heart to hear about quality breeders who have received test results that aren't correct. Awful for them, the folks who have the dogs and the dogs themselves. I say a prayer for those I hear of who have had this happen.

[tanza]

@sharronhurlbut:

Fran, it just breaks my heart to hear about quality breeders who have received test results that aren't correct. Awful for them, the folks who have the dogs and the dogs themselves. I say a prayer for those I hear of who have had this happen.

While I am sure no one would wish that on anyone, we need to keep in mind that this is not a direct test, it is another tool for breeders to try and make responsible decisions.

I hope that at the Nationals were Dr. Johnson is due to speak that we will get more clear information about the test and results, along with news about the continued search for the direct gene test.

[Kebasmom]

Jagger's Mom is strip tested monthly just like my girl that is a carrier….. Two of the pups from this litter are prob clear and one is a prob carrier....

[DebraDownSouth]

Pat, that's so true. What upsets me is the need to continue testing is not NEW information. I applaud this web info, but all I can think is… why wasn't she strip testing? WHY WHY WHY?
http://batcavebasenjis.zoomshare.com/3.html

[tanza]

@DebraDownSouth:

Pat, that's so true. What upsets me is the need to continue testing is not NEW information. I applaud this web info, but all I can think is… why wasn't she strip testing? WHY WHY WHY?
http://batcavebasenjis.zoomshare.com/3.html

Because people were lead to believe that if Carrier or IND or even Clear for that matter, strip testing was not necessary. It IS new information, really….. many of us, me included, felt with the information given that it was not necessary. Lessons learned...with the passing of time.

[DebraDownSouth]

Pat, are you saying that the official information said to stop testing? I mean, I looked at it over a year ago, back when it asked that only people with breeding stock submit. I saw nothing saying to stop strip testing. So I guess I am asking if it was misinformation spread among owners or BCOA or who?, or if the testing folks actually SAID it was accurate and made testing unnecessary? If so, I am both shocked and sad because they had to realize it might take several years to be sure if the linkage was at all reliable and they certainly had to know lab mistakes could be made putting dogs in danger EVEN if it was a near perfect test if done correctly. Continued strip testing just seems so basically logical to me.

[tanza]

@DebraDownSouth:

Pat, are you saying that the official information said to stop testing? I mean, I looked at it over a year ago, back when it asked that only people with breeding stock submit. I saw nothing saying to stop strip testing. So I guess I am asking if it was misinformation spread among owners or BCOA or who?, or if the testing folks actually SAID it was accurate and made testing unnecessary? If so, I am both shocked and sad because they had to realize it might take several years to be sure if the linkage was at all reliable and they certainly had to know lab mistakes could be made putting dogs in danger EVEN if it was a near perfect test if done correctly. Continued strip testing just seems so basically logical to me.

That is not what I said, I said that many people and breeders "assumed" and not correctly that if you have a Carrier or IND you didn't need to test… and even for Clears, it was said that you didn't need to test. What may seem logical to many, obviously didn't related to the general public... People were not misinformed... only not impressed that continued strip testing was needed.

I will add that thankfully all of mine came back as Clear... so it never dawned on me to keep strip testing and the ones I had at home were all over 10+ yrs.... my pups that were out there may have been under that age, but again, all were tested clear... so it never occured to me to have them stripped. Thankfully for me they are still fine and healthy... so as I say, live and learn.