@donc - Not true that breeders traditionally breed for conformation only. Breeders (responsible breeders) breed for health, temperament and conformation. Health/temperament is at the top of the list. Breeders do of course look for certain conformation but that does not exclude Health & Temperament.
Can anyone recomend great stud dog with excellent everything?
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I am trying to build on my knowledge of the great stud dogs with excellent hips, clear eyes, Fanconi clear, normal tyroids, etc. who also happen to have awesome conformation and temperament. I would love hearing people's personal oppinions on the subject knowing very well each dog should be matched case by case.
It usually means a lot when a breeder recomends a different breeder's dog. Especially when it comes to temperament. People can advertise health and show results but to really know about temperaments, it helps when other people recomend a certain individual or bloodline. I would like this thread to stay positive and to focus about the good things to say about certain dogs. If you have something nice to say I would love to hear it!!! Don't be shy!!!! (no put-down please, let's have some good clean fun and learn)
I will start… I really like Lise Durlot's american stud Versace in France. He is the 2010 World Winner but I don't know anything about his temperament. I also love Penda Taji's Tri-Umphant One in California, I have only heard great things about him so far. I hear great things from these kennels in Sweden: Faraoland, Bulldobas, Elegant Elephant but in general I hear there are many more great breeders in that country. Finish breeders also have a great reputation. Norway is building great reputation as well, by the way, I saw the most stunning black bitch in Lithuania that came out of Kennel Chagma in Norway. All I can say is WOW. I am seeing some lovely breeding programs in Australia. Your turn!!!!
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The thing is, it depends on what you are looking for. Just a list of those studs I am sure everyone can help with. BUT the great stud depends on what you are breeding it to.What's really nice is with a less common breed, so many of the breeders here will have put their hands on dogs. That's always a help! Interesting to see the dogs and look at them too. Great topic!
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In the US three of the lines that has great impact is Reliant, Patton, and Serengeti as far as conformation and temperament. They of course are gone now and with all three we have seen Fanconi, however with the DNA test now, many of their offspring and great offspring can be used so that we don't lose the genes of those lines.
Again, I think lines more then the dog itself.
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Its been posted that breeders should beware of the "popular" stud when it comes to breeding.
I don't breed or show, but don't you want to look for a sire to help with the areas to be inproved in the bitches line? -
Its been posted that breeders should beware of the "popular" stud when it comes to breeding.
I don't breed or show, but don't you want to look for a sire to help with the areas to be inproved in the bitches line?Totally agree. Would love to dig out uncommon great lines!!!! The more great stuff we have to choose from, the better we can fix in order to improve.
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In the US three of the lines that has great impact is Reliant, Patton, and Serengeti as far as conformation and temperament. They of course are gone now and with all three we have seen Fanconi, however with the DNA test now, many of their offspring and great offspring can be used so that we don't lose the genes of those lines.
Again, I think lines more then the dog itself.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge!!!! I will go investigate those lines further. I did hear great things.
I red Sweet William had a significant impact eventhough he was a carrier. Finding clear specimens with perfect health of that line might be a good thing.
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Ok here is a Buldobas (in Sweeden) young dog i like (Half american (has Penda Taji's Tri-Umphant one in there my favorite), half Australian), I hope he turns out with excelent health, trainability and temperament. Go check him out! http://www.basenji.fi/voittajagalleria/Bulldobas_Cream_And_Sugar.htm
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The thing is, it depends on what you are looking for. Just a list of those studs I am sure everyone can help with. BUT the great stud depends on what you are breeding it to.What's really nice is with a less common breed, so many of the breeders here will have put their hands on dogs. That's always a help! Interesting to see the dogs and look at them too. Great topic!
I totally agree with digging-up great specimens of the less common bloodlines. That is so important to promote genetic variety. That is what I hope many people can contribute to in this forum. If we all work together towards betterment of the whole breed, the breed will benefit from it.
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Please also remember the dogs that aren't Fanconi clear. They may have lots of other excellent (health) qualities to add to the breed. Bloodlines and diversity will be lost too soon if we only use 'clear' dogs all the time.
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@Sanda:
Thank you for sharing your knowledge!!!! I will go investigate those lines further. I did hear great things.
I red Sweet William had a significant impact eventhough he was a carrier. Finding clear specimens with perfect health of that line might be a good thing.
While he is a Carrier, that is no reason not to use him as long as you are using a Clear Bitch, so I would not get stuck on just looking for a "clear" of those lines. Of course if you had a Carrier Bitch, then obviously that would be the way to go. Same as my feelings about using an Affected Male… while I personally would never use an Affected bitch, I would use an affected male to a clear bitch. We have the knowledge now with the DNA Marker to avoid producing Fanconi, there is no reason not to use these dogs. Sweet William carries the lines of Serengeti and Jerlin (Patton) and has produced some very nice offspring.
Bulldobas Cream And Sugar is Jerlin(Patton), Reliant, Serengeti with another well known line, Arubmec and on the bottom so very nice old Aussie lines.
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Please also remember the dogs that aren't Fanconi clear. They may have lots of other excellent (health) qualities to add to the breed. Bloodlines and diversity will be lost too soon if we only use 'clear' dogs all the time.
Exactly… as the saying goes, "Don't throw the baby out with the bath water"
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Please also remember the dogs that aren't Fanconi clear. They may have lots of other excellent (health) qualities to add to the breed. Bloodlines and diversity will be lost too soon if we only use 'clear' dogs all the time.
I got chastised a couple times last year for using a carrier male on my clear female. The people were really mean to me. This one breeder tore a strip off of me.
I hate conflict so this year I picked a clear male for my clear female. I am glad to see though that there seams to be concensus that a carrier to a clear is fine. Obviously some will not agree but if most agree that is usually a sign that it is proper practice.
Yes I would love to add some Sweet William to my lines. He is not in my lines at all. Will investigate his sons and the sons of his daughters more closely. It all takes so much time to go through all of them!!!!! But it is fun!
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Exactly… as the saying goes, "Don't throw the baby out with the bath water"
Agreed
I was just taken back by the aggressive nature of some breeders on the subject. 
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Well those are, in my opinion, wearing blinders. What better way to make the gene pool even small?
That said, as long as you are testing the babies so that their status is known and as long as in placement you always know exactly where the carriers are and that they are not being used irresponsibility, again, I find nothing wrong with using Carriers (dog and bitch) or Affected males.
What are your bloodline?
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Well those are, in my opinion, wearing blinders. What better way to make the gene pool even small?
That said, as long as you are testing the babies so that their status is known and as long as in placement you always know exactly where the carriers are and that they are not being used irresponsibility, again, I find nothing wrong with using Carriers (dog and bitch) or Affected males.
What are your bloodline?
Agreed
My bloodlines are in random order:
Astarte's Sultan Siete With Pips
Penda Taji's Tri-Umphant One
Berimo's Roustabout
Reveille Tried And True
Khamsin Berimo Asante Ibura
Taji's Cinnamon Swirl
Proudlaan Kipenzi of Taji
Arubmec's Traces Of Taji
Astarte's Miss Wilda With Pips
Tukaloh-Kazanya Smooth As Ice
Arubmec's Roadrunner
Tukaloh's Whisper Softlii
Astarte's High Sienna
Escapade's High Five
Kazor's Jazzy Jezebel
Ahmahr Nahr's African Dancer
Astarte's Osiris CKC
Astarte's Takes A Stance
Candu's Playing With Fire
Kazor's Vyveeka of Astarte
Astarte's Roxy Roxanne
Sukari's Steven Spielbark
Kazor's Jazzy Jezebel
Jazzeta's Classic Twix
Jazzeta-Jerlin Double Stuff
Jerlin's Giza Baruti
Taz's Dazzling Jazzamine
Hello Caramello of Jazzeta
Chautauqua's Beowulf
Taz's Dazzling Jazzamine -
When I think of bloodlines, I don't think of individual dogs but rather the breeder's line. It looks like you have an assortment of dogs behind yours rather than particular line or specific blending of lines. Is your goal to use an assortative breeding strategy, matching like type? Or are you hoping to develop a true line?
My foundation is mostly Kenset with Serengeti and older Arubmec (going to mostly Pero) lines. I took that foundation and outcrossed to Tamsala and Avongara. The last two litters that I have bred have been crossed back to the lines of my foundation. When I look at outside sires, I look for ones that will have these lines or their foundation lines behind them. It is not always easy to find and there are many old lines that are dying out as newer people to the breed seek the well known or big winning dogs. I don't breed so much that I will ever really have a true line of my own but I do hope that my breeding program helps to provide others working with similar lines so options for their breeding programs just as theirs provide me with options.
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Im interested in learning more about all this. I have to admit I don't understand very well what you mean. For example, when you say your foundations is mostly Kenset with Serengeti and older arubmec .. What dogs were these?.. If I can look them up then I can figure out what you mean. There are so many dogs in any pedigree, what defines a "line"?
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Not sure why posted in "random" order, easier to just give the dog's sire and dam….
And as lvoss said, which is the same as I have said, look at lines, not dogs.
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If your girl is Amahr Nahr's Just Call Me Madam, then I would say your lines are primarily Astarte and Taji, with some Jerlin
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Im interested in learning more about all this. I have to admit I don't understand very well what you mean. For example, when you say your foundations is mostly Kenset with Serengeti and older arubmec .. What dogs were these?.. If I can look them up then I can figure out what you mean. There are so many dogs in any pedigree, what defines a "line"?
The line is the dogs in a backward progression, particularly if their are multiple dogs from the same breeder. Eventually all of our lines go back to the same dogs, pretty much. But it is the dogs that are close up in a pedigree that tell you more than the dogs that are way back. You usually can't really know anything too specific about a dog by talking about the lines, but you can get a general idea of how old the lines are. Someone who has a lot of knowledge about a breed can have some insight into the quality of the dogs based on lines.
