Let me in or I'll poop

[tanza]

I agree totally with Andrea…. her suggestions are right on... IMO

[luzmery928]

yeah I have my doubts about the trainer because well he isn't even a real trainer just "knows alot about dogs", and he didn't mention anything about positive reinforcement but he is affordable and can sort of guide us towards something. The thing is that Champ is already 1 year old and we have tried all the suggestions about his mouthing and he just dosen't stop, although the spray bottle does seem to help for a while. I am going to call the guy today and speak to him about my concerns and see if he's willing to work with our ideas and if not then we'll just be hitting this forum alot more often

[jys1011]

I ditto Andrea…I think there's a HUGE difference between people "know" & "love" dogs & have "had dogs" all their life giving advice vs. someone who is a "trained" professional. One who is familiar with behavior & reactions of a wide range of dogs not just the one's they've owned.

I had to go through a couple of trainers to really find one that I liked & was comfortable with. I also READ A LOT of books to find what I thought was best for my dogs. Check out the www.dogwise.com website. They have lots of great books there. I can recommend an author…Patricia Mcconnell who is not a trainer but an animal behaviorist. She's written great books & I believe she also has one on puppy training.

IMO I also think it takes time for dogs to "unlearn" a behavior. According to your posts you've only been working on his nipping for maybe a week or two. Unfortunately it's going to take a lot longer for Champ to learn what you want him to do.

Good luck

[luzmery928]

We have actually been working with our B for about 1 month. We've only had him for almost 2 months. I know it takes time and we are giving it time but I would have at least expected the last month to have shown some improvement on his nipping. Thanks for the resource I am in the process of receiving the B hand book that was also recommended by a forum member and will look up your recomeendation. Maybe with the crate Champ will also learn some more control over all not only with the potty.

[luzmery928]

I also wanted to start Champ in the basic training offered by petsmart but was wondering if I should wait until we work on the nipping and potty first or we can do it at the same time

[Quercus]

I didn't realize that Champ is a year old. That definitely is older than the average age for seeing these kind of problems. Usually play biting runs its course by the age of 6-8 mos or so…after that if you are still seeing a lot of biting, the dog has often learned to use his mouth to get what he wants.

It is really hard to diagnose, and give good suggestions over the internet. But I would seriously, seriously look into finding a good trainer or behaviorist. I am concerned that what you are describing as play biting, or nipping might actually be aggression. It might be more expensive than the guy who you contacted, but it could very well be worth it to you and this dog in the long run.

[luzmery928]

Well I really don't think it's agressive (I'm not an expert though) but what the guy said was that he is unusually immature for his age and he was probably taken from his mom too early so no mommie to teach him the basics of nipping. I do believe this is like as if he was still a pup and in that nipping stage. He dosen't growl, show he's teeth or close his jaw when he's nipping. Well now the guy offered to come to my home to help and at no cost so we'll give it a try. We only started with the water spray this weekend and will also buy the bitter apple and see how that goes. I'm definetly going to start crating him this weekend (yes I caved in but now I realize it is best for us all).

[Quercus]

What is he doing, and what are you (or whoever he is interacting with) doing when he is biting? For instance, are you just petting him, and he starts, or are you playing with him with your hands, then he starts, or are you trying to keep him from doing something, or taking away something he has snatched?

[luzmery928]

Let me give you the run down…When my daughter comes home he jumps at her and nipps her anywhere...If she plays, he'll play nice but might start nipping if he gets really excited..he'll jump up and nip. When we pet him, he dosen't usually nip but might start licking then he'll start the nipping. If someone new comes into the house he'll jump up and nip. But he dosen't nip if lets say we take away a toy, carry him, nothing that to my experience would fall under the aggressive category. Even if we pull something away from him, he won't nip at us per say but will kind of nip to just play

[Quercus]

Yep sounds like inappropriate play. Definitely try the Bitter Apple spray on your arms. And I *would put him in his crate for five minutes or so when he gets wound up like that. Give him a stuffed bone, or kong, anything that entertains him. It is more like a time out, than a punishment. It helps the dog calm down.

Another thing that helps is find a way to interact with him in a constructive way (like clicker training) and then engage him in that BEFORE he starts to nip. He nips because he wants your attention. If you give him your attention while playing by YOUR rules, you will both win

I would definitely sign him up for some classes ASAP…try to find one that uses treat training, as I doubt you would be able to engage this type of dog with any other type of training. You will both enjoy it, and I think it will help him focus.

[luzmery928]

Well I had mentioned to the guy who is gonna help us out with Champ that I wanted to take him to basic training at petsmart but he said different training might confuse Champ…Is this true?

[Quercus]

Well…..if the training theories are REALLY different, then maybe...but more likely it would confuse you The trainers at PetSmart have to go through at least SOME training, whereas the guy you are talking about may not have. It doesn't sound like this guy's techniques are so out there that you wouldn't be able to use exercises from both places and take what you like, and leave what you don't.

Does this guy use treats to train?

[luzmery928]

He only came once and didn't do much training but play and admire Champ. Yeah I know what are we paying for. But now he's gonna do this, no fee, and will show us about crate training, walking and using the citrus collar for the nipping. We will see more this Sun. when the introduction has now been done and the real "trianing" can begin.

[Quercus]

Weellll…..you get what you pay for Honestly, don't let him do anything to your dog that you are uncomfortable with. Anyone can call themselves a dog trainer, and sometimes owners are too embarrassed to say 'stop doing that to my dog'. But you have to be your dog's advocate, and protector. Some training methods can, and do make behaviors worse that people were trying to fix.

[Duke]

@luzmery928:

Let me give you the run down…When my daughter comes home he jumps at her and nipps her anywhere...If she plays, he'll play nice but might start nipping if he gets really excited..he'll jump up and nip. When we pet him, he dosen't usually nip but might start licking then he'll start the nipping. If someone new comes into the house he'll jump up and nip. But he dosen't nip if lets say we take away a toy, carry him, nothing that to my experience would fall under the aggressive category. Even if we pull something away from him, he won't nip at us per say but will kind of nip to just play

Well here's my 2 cents and mind you I'm not a professional trainer either. The behavior Champ is having with your daughter sounds like the exact same "crap" my Duke would do to my son (8 yrs old) last year. This forum wasn't around when I was going thru this. But here's what I did, based on advice I got from Jean Skaggs. She really knows Basenji behavior. I told my son to just get up and walk away slowly. No eye contact, no verbage, no interaction or even a reprimand. Otherwise, the basenji is being rewarded with even negative attention. If they get nothing for bad behavior, they get no attention-reward, and stop the behavior. Only desireable behavior should get them attention-reward. He's been in tears over this and I didn't like to see my boy mad and frustrated. I've had to remind-remind-remind my son of how to handle Duke's crazy behavior. I've even had to teach his visiting friends.

You might want to follow some nipping advice I got from Ms. Skaggs that is listed on the Basenji Companion link: http://basenjicompanions.org/tips/aggression/nipping.html
Jean's approach for nipping worked like a charm for us. Everyone had to be on deck for this to work.

Good luck with this one.

[luzmery928]

@Quercus:

Weellll…..you get what you pay for Honestly, don't let him do anything to your dog that you are uncomfortable with. Anyone can call themselves a dog trainer, and sometimes owners are too embarrassed to say 'stop doing that to my dog'. But you have to be your dog's advocate, and protector. Some training methods can, and do make behaviors worse that people were trying to fix.

Oh no, you better believe noone will be doing anything that we are not comfortable with. We will be present throughout his entire training/playday (I think the guy is doing this more for his own entertainment/research). We'll give him a trial basis since he can help with some details we might be over looking. But no Champ is our priority and we won't be embarresed if it means the best for our B

[nomrbddgs]

@luzmery928:

Oh no, you better believe noone will be doing anything that we are not comfortable with. We will be present throughout his entire training/playday (I think the guy is doing this more for his own entertainment/research). We'll give him a trial basis since he can help with some details we might be over looking. But no Champ is our priority and we won't be embarresed if it means the best for our B

Just have to say, if you're not comfortable with him from the outset, don't give him a test drive. You could end up with a more messed up dog than you started with. There are lots and lots of good trainers out there-go with someone you're comfortable with.

[luzmery928]

Thanks Duke for this respond since I have not read threads concerning older kids and B's. I am definetly going to check that link out. My daughter is so frustrated by his behavior. We were trying to figure out y he is this way with her and thought maybe it had to do with the fact that she did not spend alot of time with him and he wanted to play nut yeaturday when she came home from school it was unbearable for her so she had to go in her room and well he peeded and pooped because he was left alone. So then I thought maybe it's because he thinks he's her owner since we play and cuddle with him and she is often doing her own thing (teenagers) so last night we all layed in bed together and he was left on the floor. Eventually he was allowed on the bed and they played for a while, he tried the nipping but eventually gave up and layed doen right on her chest. Oh by the way our little Champ no longer responds to the water bottle. He has realized it is just water and can be licked off so now HE LIKES IT!!!AGHHHH…tonight I'm stopping at a pet store for some bitter apple.

[luzmery928]

@nomrbddgs:

Just have to say, if you're not comfortable with him from the outset, don't give him a test drive. You could end up with a more messed up dog than you started with. There are lots and lots of good trainers out there-go with someone you're comfortable with.

Believe me I lost sleep because of this and my thought were no I don't want to use him. Although this is also due the fact that I was against crating (He will be bringing a crate with him) but my husband seemed to like him and he was recommended through the rescue so we'll wait and see. I would like to think that I know my B by now so I'll definelty be looking for any signs he might not be comfortable as well. Thanks for your concern and I will be sure to stop anything before it gets to the point of causing any negative response from my B and from us.

[nomrbddgs]

Crate's are fine,try not to be too uptight. (If they're crate trained properly) The trainer should be putting something in the crate to distract him when he's in there. (maybe a kong toy with a little bit of peanut butter stuck way up inside. This works as distraction for most dogs but not all. If he has severe anxiety this probably will not work.) If the trainer just throws him in there without trying distraction-get rid of him-he's not there to help your dog. Just to let you know, most dogs will eventually think of the crate as a den. (I say most because even though I am a trainer and a behaviourist my female B still poops in her crate and then disposes of it. She hates the crate!! That's does not mean she is not crated when I need her to be. She is crated when we travel, at dog shows, and in hotel rooms for the most part. I don't let her get her way all the time!)