Let me in or I'll poop

[luzmery928]

Well I had mentioned to the guy who is gonna help us out with Champ that I wanted to take him to basic training at petsmart but he said different training might confuse Champ…Is this true?

[Quercus]

Well…..if the training theories are REALLY different, then maybe...but more likely it would confuse you The trainers at PetSmart have to go through at least SOME training, whereas the guy you are talking about may not have. It doesn't sound like this guy's techniques are so out there that you wouldn't be able to use exercises from both places and take what you like, and leave what you don't.

Does this guy use treats to train?

[luzmery928]

He only came once and didn't do much training but play and admire Champ. Yeah I know what are we paying for. But now he's gonna do this, no fee, and will show us about crate training, walking and using the citrus collar for the nipping. We will see more this Sun. when the introduction has now been done and the real "trianing" can begin.

[Quercus]

Weellll…..you get what you pay for Honestly, don't let him do anything to your dog that you are uncomfortable with. Anyone can call themselves a dog trainer, and sometimes owners are too embarrassed to say 'stop doing that to my dog'. But you have to be your dog's advocate, and protector. Some training methods can, and do make behaviors worse that people were trying to fix.

[Duke]

@luzmery928:

Let me give you the run down…When my daughter comes home he jumps at her and nipps her anywhere...If she plays, he'll play nice but might start nipping if he gets really excited..he'll jump up and nip. When we pet him, he dosen't usually nip but might start licking then he'll start the nipping. If someone new comes into the house he'll jump up and nip. But he dosen't nip if lets say we take away a toy, carry him, nothing that to my experience would fall under the aggressive category. Even if we pull something away from him, he won't nip at us per say but will kind of nip to just play

Well here's my 2 cents and mind you I'm not a professional trainer either. The behavior Champ is having with your daughter sounds like the exact same "crap" my Duke would do to my son (8 yrs old) last year. This forum wasn't around when I was going thru this. But here's what I did, based on advice I got from Jean Skaggs. She really knows Basenji behavior. I told my son to just get up and walk away slowly. No eye contact, no verbage, no interaction or even a reprimand. Otherwise, the basenji is being rewarded with even negative attention. If they get nothing for bad behavior, they get no attention-reward, and stop the behavior. Only desireable behavior should get them attention-reward. He's been in tears over this and I didn't like to see my boy mad and frustrated. I've had to remind-remind-remind my son of how to handle Duke's crazy behavior. I've even had to teach his visiting friends.

You might want to follow some nipping advice I got from Ms. Skaggs that is listed on the Basenji Companion link: http://basenjicompanions.org/tips/aggression/nipping.html
Jean's approach for nipping worked like a charm for us. Everyone had to be on deck for this to work.

Good luck with this one.

[luzmery928]

@Quercus:

Weellll…..you get what you pay for Honestly, don't let him do anything to your dog that you are uncomfortable with. Anyone can call themselves a dog trainer, and sometimes owners are too embarrassed to say 'stop doing that to my dog'. But you have to be your dog's advocate, and protector. Some training methods can, and do make behaviors worse that people were trying to fix.

Oh no, you better believe noone will be doing anything that we are not comfortable with. We will be present throughout his entire training/playday (I think the guy is doing this more for his own entertainment/research). We'll give him a trial basis since he can help with some details we might be over looking. But no Champ is our priority and we won't be embarresed if it means the best for our B

[nomrbddgs]

@luzmery928:

Oh no, you better believe noone will be doing anything that we are not comfortable with. We will be present throughout his entire training/playday (I think the guy is doing this more for his own entertainment/research). We'll give him a trial basis since he can help with some details we might be over looking. But no Champ is our priority and we won't be embarresed if it means the best for our B

Just have to say, if you're not comfortable with him from the outset, don't give him a test drive. You could end up with a more messed up dog than you started with. There are lots and lots of good trainers out there-go with someone you're comfortable with.

[luzmery928]

Thanks Duke for this respond since I have not read threads concerning older kids and B's. I am definetly going to check that link out. My daughter is so frustrated by his behavior. We were trying to figure out y he is this way with her and thought maybe it had to do with the fact that she did not spend alot of time with him and he wanted to play nut yeaturday when she came home from school it was unbearable for her so she had to go in her room and well he peeded and pooped because he was left alone. So then I thought maybe it's because he thinks he's her owner since we play and cuddle with him and she is often doing her own thing (teenagers) so last night we all layed in bed together and he was left on the floor. Eventually he was allowed on the bed and they played for a while, he tried the nipping but eventually gave up and layed doen right on her chest. Oh by the way our little Champ no longer responds to the water bottle. He has realized it is just water and can be licked off so now HE LIKES IT!!!AGHHHH…tonight I'm stopping at a pet store for some bitter apple.

[luzmery928]

@nomrbddgs:

Just have to say, if you're not comfortable with him from the outset, don't give him a test drive. You could end up with a more messed up dog than you started with. There are lots and lots of good trainers out there-go with someone you're comfortable with.

Believe me I lost sleep because of this and my thought were no I don't want to use him. Although this is also due the fact that I was against crating (He will be bringing a crate with him) but my husband seemed to like him and he was recommended through the rescue so we'll wait and see. I would like to think that I know my B by now so I'll definelty be looking for any signs he might not be comfortable as well. Thanks for your concern and I will be sure to stop anything before it gets to the point of causing any negative response from my B and from us.

[nomrbddgs]

Crate's are fine,try not to be too uptight. (If they're crate trained properly) The trainer should be putting something in the crate to distract him when he's in there. (maybe a kong toy with a little bit of peanut butter stuck way up inside. This works as distraction for most dogs but not all. If he has severe anxiety this probably will not work.) If the trainer just throws him in there without trying distraction-get rid of him-he's not there to help your dog. Just to let you know, most dogs will eventually think of the crate as a den. (I say most because even though I am a trainer and a behaviourist my female B still poops in her crate and then disposes of it. She hates the crate!! That's does not mean she is not crated when I need her to be. She is crated when we travel, at dog shows, and in hotel rooms for the most part. I don't let her get her way all the time!)

[Duke]

@luzmery928:

Thanks Duke for this respond since I have not read threads concerning older kids and B's. I am definetly going to check that link out. My daughter is so frustrated by his behavior. We were trying to figure out y he is this way with her and thought maybe it had to do with the fact that she did not spend alot of time with him and he wanted to play nut yeaturday when she came home from school it was unbearable for her so she had to go in her room and well he peeded and pooped because he was left alone. So then I thought maybe it's because he thinks he's her owner since we play and cuddle with him and she is often doing her own thing (teenagers) so last night we all layed in bed together and he was left on the floor. Eventually he was allowed on the bed and they played for a while, he tried the nipping but eventually gave up and layed doen right on her chest. Oh by the way our little Champ no longer responds to the water bottle. He has realized it is just water and can be licked off so now HE LIKES IT!!!AGHHHH…tonight I'm stopping at a pet store for some bitter apple.

If the scenario with your daughter is similar as it was with my son - it is likely because he gets attention from her. (even negative attention = reward to basenji) My guess is she responds to his behavior like my son did possibly with pushing and anger with words and eye contact?? Basenji thinks "If I nip, I get attention." (reward). If your daughter paid no attention when Champ nips, say she comes home, hangs up coat and sits at kitchen table with her books and ignores Champ. Champ goes away. Give him a few minutes of being good leaving her alone, then ask her to give Champ a nice hello and pet. If he nips again - same routine, no attention. I had to remind my son repeatedly to do this routine because his first instinct to being nipped is to retaliate with aggression. There are many training tips on the Basenji Companions website.

[luzmery928]

Yeah well Champ dosen't give up. She's done the ignoring but he dosen't stop. Only option is to go in her room. I mean he'll even start taking her books if she's doing homework. Maybe a baby gate will help in this case since he can't get to her but still see her. We can use it as a time out.

[luzmery928]

Nomrbddgs…yes I completly agree about the toys, distraction, in the crate. This is something I am going to discuss with the guy when he comes Sun. I'm not gonna allow for him to tell me what to do only on his terms. We will work together. I have finally come to accept the crain..well at least enough to work with it and am glad to know that not all dogs like them and this is o.k. I just keep telling myself it is good for us all and hey I'm sure my daughter dosen't like all our rules but we do what's best.

[spitfirekrl1]

Does anyone reading these strands think that this might be a dominant behavior? Like Champ is trying to win dominance over the daughter? Our B did this with my son (who is 7) for a while until we practiced some things that teaches the dog is not the dominant one over ANY human in our house. It almost sounds like the same scenario.

[spitfirekrl1]

Along with no-bite methods, of course. Which we just held her snout firmly and told her no bite and stopped play which worked for us.

[luzmery928]

yes I believe it's also a dominance behavior with him (I don't like that word it seems ike he's being aggresive) but anyway I also held held snout when he did this (also hard to do-that B is quick)and he tested me again and I did it again except this time he let out a yelp but I don't think I hurt it at least I hope I didn't. Two yelps and he stopped the nipping. But see we are not playing with him so we ignore but he keeps it up. Is my B the only one with sharp teeth, cause these nips hurt and because they hurt it's nearly impossible to ignore.

[Duke]

Well, if the water bottle doesn't work anymore, how about coins taped inside a tin can that you throw down on the floor. It is supposed to startle them and change thinking direction. Otherwise, somewhere in this forum was a suggestion to use those caps that you buy at carnivals, especially if you don't want to keep getting up. You just throw them on the floor and they make a loud pop sound. Sorry luzmery928, I'm all out of ideas. Please don't try an idea and give up too quickly - choose one that seems workable from the start and stick with it for atleast week. Also, get bossy and make everyone in the house follow your rule on it. Good luck!

[luzmery928]

thanks. Well I'm now moving on to the bitter apple and that can idea sounds good. I will update.

[Quercus]

I want to make sure you understand you don't spray the bitter apple at the dog…you put it on whatever the dog is trying to chew on

And just to be perfectly clear...ignoring the behavior means silently GET UP, leave the puppy. If you just stay where you are, yes, he will continue to bite.

And, no you aren't the only one whose puppy teeth hurt like heck. My husband just got bit on the nose because he decided to cuddle an excited puppy next to his face??? why...I don't know!

[luzmery928]

Well thanks for telling me that cause I thought the bitter apple was used like the water spray. (Noone worry I would have read the instructions before use). Well them I guess I better buy the family size so we can bathe in the stuff. I do think the gate will work well with the nipping so we can get up and seclude him from us, like a time out.