Let me in or I'll poop

[jys1011]

Andrea..hey if I ask for advice I absolutely take it to heart especally the good stuff

Thanks for the compliment..I've been doing quite a bit of reading! And practicing!!

[luzmery928]

O.k here's the update on the trainer..Well he's not really a trainer but knows alot about dogs. (he was referred to us by the rescue agency) Anyway he thinks Champ is unusually imature for his age and feels the excessive nipping and the nipping in his favorite area-bobbies, is due to him maybe being seperated from his mom too early. He wants us to crate train him but he says to put him in the crate with no toys, blankets bed or anything. (This I find very harsh). Also he says we should keep him crated when pple come over the house. (I'm not happy about that either). That' sll for the potty training. Now for the nipping, he suggests a citruis collar. It is like a shock collar but instead of shocking, it realeases a strong smell that the gods dont' like.
O.k I was unable to sleep last night just thinking of these methods and would really like some feedback concerning these trainng methods. I don't want to do the wrong thing and cause any probelems for our B

[dmcarty]

Hmmmm - lots of times you have nipping puppies because they were removed from mom too early and she would have corrected that kind of behavior. So what would mom do if she were nipped by her puppy.

Growl at puppy and probably mouth the puppies head. Now I'm not recommending biting your dogs head but a firm hand on the head with a growly noise from whomever is getting nibbled on is probaly a good idea.

I always recommend keeping a dog especially puppy crated or away when lots of people come over for a variety of reasons:

1 - if they don't close the door quick enough the pup could be gone.
2 - not everyone is a dog person and may have different expectations of what a dog should be doing and correct the dog in a different way that would be appropriate.
3 - too much stress

[luzmery928]

yeah that sounds right, now what about being left in the crate without any toys, bed, blankets, etc?

[gbroxon]

I've only heard of citrus collars that are used to control barking; the barking sets off the shot of citrus. Are there ones that can be remote-controlled? In other words, how does the nipping set off the citrus blast?

I'm not sure of his reasoning in leaving the pup in a bare crate. Did he explain why he thought it was a good idea?

[luzmery928]

No. I will ask him but I'm not sure a bare crate will help. How will he want to be inside if I don't keep him comfortable. The collar is remote control

[Quercus]

I would say that if you aren't comfortable with the advice the trainer gave you, then find another trainer.

My guess is that he suggested a bare crate because if the dog urinates in it, he will have to sit in it. Personally, I don't crate train that way. My experience has been that for a while, some puppies urinate in their crate…eventually they grow out of it. But I am very tolerant for cleaning up puppy pee and poo I do line the crate with newspaper so it absorbs any liquid...but the important part is that a puppy really should be taken outside at most every couple of hours to become housetrained...if you don't or can't do that, it will take longer to house train a dog.

As far as citronella collar for nipping...I don't think it would be effective. I think it is far more effective to disengage with the puppy..it sends and immediate message of "I won't play with you when you put your mouth on me". If it is true puppy mouthing, it will get better as the puppy grows up. If it is some bratty temper tantruming, then if you don't deal with it, it will get worse.

You really need to find a good, positive reinforcement trainer...I think that will help you. Somewhere, maybe this thread? there is a link to the American Pet Dog Trainer website, most of the people listed there are well educated in positive training techniques. For even more certification, look for a trainer with the CPDT (Certified Professional Dog Trainer) title. You can also google CCPDT, and find a listing of these trainers there.

[tanza]

I agree totally with Andrea…. her suggestions are right on... IMO

[luzmery928]

yeah I have my doubts about the trainer because well he isn't even a real trainer just "knows alot about dogs", and he didn't mention anything about positive reinforcement but he is affordable and can sort of guide us towards something. The thing is that Champ is already 1 year old and we have tried all the suggestions about his mouthing and he just dosen't stop, although the spray bottle does seem to help for a while. I am going to call the guy today and speak to him about my concerns and see if he's willing to work with our ideas and if not then we'll just be hitting this forum alot more often

[jys1011]

I ditto Andrea…I think there's a HUGE difference between people "know" & "love" dogs & have "had dogs" all their life giving advice vs. someone who is a "trained" professional. One who is familiar with behavior & reactions of a wide range of dogs not just the one's they've owned.

I had to go through a couple of trainers to really find one that I liked & was comfortable with. I also READ A LOT of books to find what I thought was best for my dogs. Check out the www.dogwise.com website. They have lots of great books there. I can recommend an author…Patricia Mcconnell who is not a trainer but an animal behaviorist. She's written great books & I believe she also has one on puppy training.

IMO I also think it takes time for dogs to "unlearn" a behavior. According to your posts you've only been working on his nipping for maybe a week or two. Unfortunately it's going to take a lot longer for Champ to learn what you want him to do.

Good luck

[luzmery928]

We have actually been working with our B for about 1 month. We've only had him for almost 2 months. I know it takes time and we are giving it time but I would have at least expected the last month to have shown some improvement on his nipping. Thanks for the resource I am in the process of receiving the B hand book that was also recommended by a forum member and will look up your recomeendation. Maybe with the crate Champ will also learn some more control over all not only with the potty.

[luzmery928]

I also wanted to start Champ in the basic training offered by petsmart but was wondering if I should wait until we work on the nipping and potty first or we can do it at the same time

[Quercus]

I didn't realize that Champ is a year old. That definitely is older than the average age for seeing these kind of problems. Usually play biting runs its course by the age of 6-8 mos or so…after that if you are still seeing a lot of biting, the dog has often learned to use his mouth to get what he wants.

It is really hard to diagnose, and give good suggestions over the internet. But I would seriously, seriously look into finding a good trainer or behaviorist. I am concerned that what you are describing as play biting, or nipping might actually be aggression. It might be more expensive than the guy who you contacted, but it could very well be worth it to you and this dog in the long run.

[luzmery928]

Well I really don't think it's agressive (I'm not an expert though) but what the guy said was that he is unusually immature for his age and he was probably taken from his mom too early so no mommie to teach him the basics of nipping. I do believe this is like as if he was still a pup and in that nipping stage. He dosen't growl, show he's teeth or close his jaw when he's nipping. Well now the guy offered to come to my home to help and at no cost so we'll give it a try. We only started with the water spray this weekend and will also buy the bitter apple and see how that goes. I'm definetly going to start crating him this weekend (yes I caved in but now I realize it is best for us all).

[Quercus]

What is he doing, and what are you (or whoever he is interacting with) doing when he is biting? For instance, are you just petting him, and he starts, or are you playing with him with your hands, then he starts, or are you trying to keep him from doing something, or taking away something he has snatched?

[luzmery928]

Let me give you the run down…When my daughter comes home he jumps at her and nipps her anywhere...If she plays, he'll play nice but might start nipping if he gets really excited..he'll jump up and nip. When we pet him, he dosen't usually nip but might start licking then he'll start the nipping. If someone new comes into the house he'll jump up and nip. But he dosen't nip if lets say we take away a toy, carry him, nothing that to my experience would fall under the aggressive category. Even if we pull something away from him, he won't nip at us per say but will kind of nip to just play

[Quercus]

Yep sounds like inappropriate play. Definitely try the Bitter Apple spray on your arms. And I *would put him in his crate for five minutes or so when he gets wound up like that. Give him a stuffed bone, or kong, anything that entertains him. It is more like a time out, than a punishment. It helps the dog calm down.

Another thing that helps is find a way to interact with him in a constructive way (like clicker training) and then engage him in that BEFORE he starts to nip. He nips because he wants your attention. If you give him your attention while playing by YOUR rules, you will both win

I would definitely sign him up for some classes ASAP…try to find one that uses treat training, as I doubt you would be able to engage this type of dog with any other type of training. You will both enjoy it, and I think it will help him focus.

[luzmery928]

Well I had mentioned to the guy who is gonna help us out with Champ that I wanted to take him to basic training at petsmart but he said different training might confuse Champ…Is this true?

[Quercus]

Well…..if the training theories are REALLY different, then maybe...but more likely it would confuse you The trainers at PetSmart have to go through at least SOME training, whereas the guy you are talking about may not have. It doesn't sound like this guy's techniques are so out there that you wouldn't be able to use exercises from both places and take what you like, and leave what you don't.

Does this guy use treats to train?

[luzmery928]

He only came once and didn't do much training but play and admire Champ. Yeah I know what are we paying for. But now he's gonna do this, no fee, and will show us about crate training, walking and using the citrus collar for the nipping. We will see more this Sun. when the introduction has now been done and the real "trianing" can begin.