I have a great old film with 'Our Lady of the Congo'…

[stash]

Antigone - Please don't base this forum on a few members you have clashed with, this forum has a lot of information for Basenji owners and a lot of knowledge in the members who contribute when someone needs help.

Jolanda and Kaiser

[Antigone]

Good Morning Pat,

I read on this and other forums and groups that some breeders are changing the Bitch's cycle so they can get 2 litters per year instead of one. If memory serves this is happening in PA with the Amish whom treat all animals as if they are machines. Every Monday at the New Holland Livestock Auction you will find aged Horses and Mules owned by the Amish who rather than euthanize them they sell them to Slaughter to eek out every possible penny. I have rescued 2 horses from that particular Auction.

I know that it has been problematic with these Breeders breeding 2x per year and it is very sad. Regarding Semen collection to preserve the breed, I am all for that due to the fact that the Continent of Africa is an extremely dangerous place I worry that the Basenjis will be killed to gain control over the people who have them. The breed will become truly endangered if the African dogs are slaughtered.

My dog was born in December 23, 1998 and she was a gorgeous Tri and since the breeder was a friend, I was able to choose my puppy whom I met when she was 3 days old. I left her with the Breeder for 12 weeks as I wanted her to get the full benefit of being with her Mama and her siblings. My dog was the Alpha puppy and she tried to be the Alpha at home but her cat who taught her how to go up and down the stairs and get on the bed was the true Alpha in the house. I was but he ignored that; he was a very good boy who lived to the age of 18. The dog adored him and she looked for him for weeks when he passed of a stroke.

Having said all of that, I want to thank you for the information. I don't care for Line Breeding as it weakens the genetic properties that are important to the animal's hardiness. We have not have a Triple Crown winner since 1978. There are TWO Thorougbred lines left and we here in the US breed irresponsibly. I have rescued horses that are great granddaughters of Secretariat and Mr. Prospector and both were a mess when I brought them from the Auction. Secretariat was a 'Freak of Nature' and his offspring did not inherit his talent, just his size. It is sad what we do to animals. The Secretariat granddaughter will be with me for her entire life as she has gastric ulcers from being tubed every day when at the track. She is unable to gain enough weight to be suitable for riding. She weighs 950lbs and she should weigh 1250. I have spent a lot of money on specialists to help this mare gain weight and keep it on. She is beautiful and sweet but skinny.

I would like to find a breeder that breeds in the fall for a December puppy. Right now I do not have any pets in my house. I am waiting to get another Basenji puppy. I raised my dog so she was sweet with people and animals although she never got used to liking all Canines unless they were HUGE dogs like Irish Wolfhounds, Malamutes, Bull Mastiffs. She preferred to play with them as they somehow reminded her of the Wolves she lived with. The Wolves are legal where I reside, and they were neutered males that had been the 'Omega' of the Pack. Omegas are 'picked on' by the rest of the Pack so my wolves waited to eat and were basically afraid of everything.

Thank you again for all of the information and continued success with your Basenjis. You have a Tri that is a dead ringer for my little dog. She is beautiful. BTW, my dog WAS crate trained but I did not keep her in the crate while in the house. We used the crate in the car only. She got used to it and fell asleep.

Antigone

[Antigone]

Good Morning Jolanda!

It is just frustrating to be treated in such an unfriendly manner. As if I would do anything that is illegal is complete folly. Indeed there is great info here but as we live with our Basenjis we learn new things about them. For instance, my dog did not Yodel until she was 14. She always 'Rooed' which I loved and the Yodel was hilarious. She really was a little clown and she would stomp her little front feet if she was waiting too long for something such as her dinner, a treat, or her walk. That was so funny I always reacted as she was correct! I missed the time and she knew it.

These are such enchanting little dogs and I am completely devoted to the Breed and seeing it continue in a genetically viable manner. I don't know if you know anything about horses, but horses are problematic in the US. Backyard breeders breed too many and when they cannot sell them they send them to kill. The Thoroughbred is Line Bred and there are only 2 bloodlines left. That is a huge problem as these horses are not hardy, they break down at the track, they snap legs at the track, in short, not one of them is fit to be a racehorse of any kind.

This breed needs to be conserved but it takes a lot of money and we would have to breed our hardiest mare with an Egyptian Arabian stud and go from there. The foundation horses for the Thoroughbred were 2 Arabians and a Turk (now extinct). I do not think we could ever conserve the Basenji or the Ridgebacks in this manner. I am wondering if the dogs we have tried to collect Semen from are strictly American dogs. Have we tried with dogs in other parts of the world?

I just worry as I love all animals and do my best with the horses to rescue and rehab them, and retrain them to find suitable homes from them. I do not sell them at first, I wait about a year to see how things work out. I get calls for Dogs and Wolves but not any lately. I am still terribly sad over losing my little girl whom can never be replaced. I adored that dog beyond imagination.

Thanks so much for responding Jolanda and have a great day with your Kaiser. I have to get back to work!

Antigone

[DebraDownSouth]

@Antigone:

I have neither posted nor announced that I have made the film available to anyone. You need not explain the Law to me as I understand Copyright Law extremely well.

Antigone

Um, you do know your post is still here, right.. the one where you absolutely said you posted you would make it available

Good-bye, My Lady (1956)

An old man and a young boy who live in the southeastern Mississippi swamps are brought together by the love of a dog.

Director:
William A. Wellman
Writers:
Albert Sidney Fleischman (screenplay), James H. Street (novel)
Stars:
Walter Brennan, Phil Harris, Brandon De Wilde

This Basenji was one of the first to be imported into the US. This is a true story of how she got lost, found in a Swamp, caught by a young boy and trained to hunt. She yodels in a strange way, she sounds as if she is laughing.

The training methods he used will make you cringe, but this is a great film to see. Brandon De Wilde died at a young age in an auto accident.

I can put it on one of my servers and you can download it and watch it on your computer or burn it to a DVD if you have the software for that. If there is interest I will put it on my server and provide the link for downloads.<<

[DebraDownSouth]

You weren't treated unfriendly.. you attacked me for my on-topic discussion of crate training. Anyone reading my posts will know they were not nasty and not even cranky til you tried to make it all personal. I started to post them all but geesh, who the heck cares. Your melodrama is easy to spot without me posting it all. And pretty laughable for you to accuse me of being unfriendly when all I did was not agree until YOU GOT NASTY. Have a good day.

[tanza]

What Puppymillers do should not be confused with what responsible breeders do… so when statements such as "changed the Female's breeding cycle from one heat to two" and is not qualified on who is being referred to.... it makes it seem like this is normal practice.

Thank goodness for our breed (and other breeds that do not come normally into season 2x's a year) that by breeding on the "bitches puppy season" in order to get more than one litter a year, as I noted typically is a hit and miss, usually a miss... so many puppymillers get out of Basenjis since they are not profitable.

Not sure what you mean by finding a breeder that "breeds in the Fall for December puppies"?.... makes no sense, breeders breed when the bitches come in season, could be anytime from August to November on average, so we can not just breed for puppies in a particular month.

AND depending on when the Basenji National is, this can change a bitches season... when you have 200 basenji bitches in the same place, all you need is one to be in season for whatever reason and they will all start to come in season. The year that the National was in June in 1990 on the West Coast, the following year bitches started coming in season in June... puppies were born August and September. My own Maggii was 8/27/91 and my boy, OJ was 9/9/91. However both their mothers went back to having Fall seasons the following year. In some cases you CAN'T fight Mother Nature.

So I do not believe that this is an issue that will change the breed.

[Timesthemyth]

I already have a physical copy, but I'd be extremely interested in an electronic copy. Not sure if that offer is still on the table? If it is just send me a private message….. I wouldn't blame you for backing out though.

......I certainly have no loyalty to a company that is in the 1% group......making billions of dollars off the backs of poor Americas - who are barely able to make it day by day. I do like this basenji community, but sometimes the elitism is palpable. Not everyone has unlimited money at their disposal .....NO one should have to miss out on a silly little film because they can't afford it.

[jerrymac55]

I would like to download it if possible.

[DebraDownSouth]

I agree no one should have to miss out on food, medical care, education. But sorry, I am glad I raised my daughter to understand that stealing and justifying it with stuff like "the 1 percent" is simply rationalization and still theft.

[Timesthemyth]

Their morals are coming out of their own pockets; while they're spending thousands on textbooks, music, and movies…....the rest of us are only paying the cost of internet. Morals are luxury they can afford, so good for them. I'll give my money to those who need it....and won't lose one damn minute of sleep. In fact, I'll sleep better knowing that it's not going to the very people who utilize tax loops to dupe the Amercian people.

This whole 'copy right' BS (which has hurt many reputable professors) is purely a United States issue. We've turned into a bunch of whiney cry babies. Go to South America. They could give two ****s about copy right laws. Our textbooks were much more affordable when they copied one textbook and sold them to students for 10 bucks a piece. China? You bet they infringe.

BTW very fruitless to report the OP. It's a known fact that the FBI has just about given up on charging single individuals for illegal downloads; unless they are wanted for something else. Billions of people world wide are in on the game - bootleg physical copies as well as illegal downloads. At this point, they are going after the distributors......but as Pirate Bay has shown us, that's not working out well for them either. There are copies; often in more than one country. If a site is busted, a clone is back up the next day.

Silk Road (the underground drug distributing website) was back up and running the week after it was busted.

Don't like it? That's tough. It's happening with or without your permission.

Honestly, I would love to support the OP (and her copy is probably clean)......but you could find this film fairly easily for illegal download.

I feel sorry for kids raised in environments where they're not encouraged to think for themselves; only to toe the line. I've seen a lot of them get eaten alive by scammers. They are such easy targets for MLM schemes like Kirby vacuum, Mary Kay, or primerica insurance.......if not financial scams. Those are the people falling for Nigerian scams. They just don't understand how to bend the rules in their favor, or how to be independent. They need to be sheltered for the rest of their lives or they will be taken advantage of at some point.

[DebraDownSouth]

Wow and I feel sorry for kids raised by parents with a sense of entitlement to take whatever they want and try to justify it. Stealing is stealing. Sorry, kids raised with morals, with an understanding that not liking a law should result in trying to change it, not break it, that no matter how you try to pretend when you steal you are a thief, that just because morally bankrupt people do things doesn't make it right are not raised up to "toe the line" or "not think for themselves" or "easy targets." You obviously think having morals is the same thing as stupidity. It isn't. You seem to think having morals is being a patsy, it isn't. You seem to think that breaking laws because you can get away with it or have little chance of being prosecuted is smart, but it isn't – it is just unlawful and often immoral. You can teach morals and also thinking for oneself. What utter stupidity to equate learning values, morality, right behavior, kindness, ethics.. whatever.... is bad. I feel sorry for the kids who are raised without someone to guide them on what is right or wrong. They are simply thugs, taking whatever they want and feeling the world owes them. No matter how rich or bad a company is, you don't have to deal with them or buy from them, but stealing is for scum. And with that.. putting you on ignore.

[Antigone]

Debra,

I said I could put it on one of my servers but I did not. Thanks.

[eeeefarm]

It's interesting that this has gotten so heated. The digital age has somewhat muddied the waters. Once upon a time you could buy a book or a DVD and when you were finished using it you could pass it on to your friends so that they could enjoy it (you still can!), and that isn't considered stealing. Make a copy for them to view, with the same exact result (they get to see the movie or read the book), and suddenly it is illegal. The law was drafted to prevent people from making numerous copies and selling them for profit, a clear infringement to copyright. For a person to make a copy for a friend to view rather than snail mailing the original seems to be in a "shades of grey" area. I'd be surprised if most on this forum haven't at some point downloaded something for personal use that would infringe copyright if the letter of the law was applied.

[Antigone]

Hi Pat,

I understand about having many Bitches together at the same time. They 'Synchronize'. Mares do this as do all females, but Mares are much bigger than a Basenji. One must tread lightly when the Mares are in Season as they get nasty; even the sweetest of them will throw a kick or try to bite.

My dog was born on December 23,1998. Her birth was in line with everything I have read about these dogs; the literature states that the breed usually has litters of 5 puppies which are always born in December. I also know why people 'Line Breed', they want to either improve the breed by breeding out negatives such as Fanconi which is a good thing, but more often they want to develop their Line that is slightly different from other Breeders dogs. How often do you add a new bloodline to your breeding program?

Anecdotal evidence has proven that Line Breeding has a negative impact on the animals, be it dogs, cats, or horses. Horses are the best example of Line Breeding resulting in disaster. There are only Two bloodlines available to breed the American Thoroughbred, and these horses are not better in any other Country. They are frail and they break down in Training, snap bones during races and it is horrible. I rescue off track Horses that have a chance of recovery through proper rehabilitation and management practices.

I understand what you are saying, I am merely reporting what I have read about the breed. I miss my 'Wild Thing' every day and I will get another if not this year, then next. I generally rescue animals; horses, dogs, cats and sometimes neutered male Omega Wolves that were dumped in the dog pound. My Basenji was the first and only animal I have ever paid for.

My little dog adored the Wolves and she imprinted on the first one and since then, she decided that Canines were inferior and she mimicked the Wolf's behavior. They engaged in Mutual grooming. Tiggy would wash the Wolf's face and ears. Then he stood up and returned the favor. The Wolves were 'Omegas' which means they were afraid of everything. They were incredibly gentle so I never had a problem with them.

I have also heard that some Amish are breeding Basenjis and that is a concern as they do not consider animals sentient beings, rather they are to be used to make money. Every Monday in New Holland, PA, the livestock auction has old Mules and Horses brought by the Amish simply because they want to get every last cent out of the animal. Horse slaughter is actually illegal by virtue of the Humane Slaughter Act of 1958. The USDA fails to enforce the statute. It is brutal as the horses and their cousins regain consciousness 30 seconds after being struck by the Captive Bolt or a .22 Caliber Rifle. There was some fool in Iowa that wanted to open DOG SLAUGHTERHOUSES to deal with the over population of dogs in the US. That clearly did not happen but one has to be aware of the World as a whole and how animals are treated in other Countries. I am worried about what is happening in the Congo, that area of the World is so unstable that the dog owners may be attacked and the dogs killed.

I do a lot of research and if you find what I say boring, it is tiresome to me! I have been fighting to make the Laws stronger to treat all animals better. Puppy Mills are a scourge that were created by the USDA during the Dustbowl. Those people have been breeding those dogs since the 1940's and there are 3 USDA Inspectors that have the task of inspecting all the dogs in the Mills. Those Mills should be shut down by USDA forever but when you see how crazy that Agency is, it will never happen. I have a Veterinarian on the Board of Directors of my Rescue; he is a former USDA Chief Inspector and he was a Whistleblower because the animals were not being treated humanely.

It all ties in and we love the animals and want to be sure that the best survive so there is no chance of losing a species. There are hundreds of species that are Endangered but the Endangered Species List is managed by the Fish and Wildlife Service which has been proven to be the most corrupt agency of them all.

Thanks for the information, and your dogs are gorgeous!

Antigone

[Antigone]

Good Morning,

You are correct and the Copyright Act has many parts. Public Domain changed due to Justice Ginsberg's Opinion for the Majority. People still let their family share books and DVD's etc. so to say that this is illegal is just nuts. The Justice decided that films not made in the US were not Public Domain in the US BUT are considered Public Domain in other Countries. 'Things to Come' is a film from the late 1930's that addresses the end of the World. It is a very famous film but fell into the Public Domain as the Copyright was never renewed due to the death of Alexander Korda and his son. Their entire catalog of films are Public Domain everywhere but the US.

Fair Use still applies and if Professors were using films for educational purposes then they should not have been sued. If I were one of those Professors, I would have gotten myself an attorney and fight it all the way to the Supreme Court. They would definitely be granted the Writ without a problem. The US filmmakers take any opportunity to go after what they think is infringement on their rights, the Music Industry is worse as these files are easier to share.

You are correct about this entire issue being rooted in 'Shades of Grey' (the Penumbra) and the decision did not make anything that much more clear; the Books issue is still going on!

Antigone

[DebraDownSouth]

@Antigone:

My dog was born on December 23,1998. Her birth was in line with everything I have read about these dogs; the literature states that the breed usually has litters of 5 puppies which are always born in December.<<

I have no idea what you are reading, but anything saying that "always born in December" is utter rubbish written by someone who hasn't a clue!

I also know why people 'Line Breed', they want to either improve the breed by breeding out negatives such as Fanconi which is a good thing, but more often they want to develop their Line that is slightly different from other Breeders dogs. How often do you add a new bloodline to your breeding program?<<

Um, no they aren't trying to make "different from other Breeders dogs" they are trying to improve on the standard.

Anecdotal evidence has proven that Line Breeding has a negative impact on the animals, be it dogs, cats, or horses. Horses are the best example of Line Breeding resulting in disaster. <<

Anecdotal evidence doesn't PROVE anything, btw. It may indicate, but anecdotal is not proof, it isn't fact, it isn't research.

All breeds are to an extent LINE BRED as the gene pools are not that varied. Even breeds with extensive numbers like Rottweilers and GSD come from a pretty limited beginning gene pool. Breeding coefficients of inbreeding tools are available to help breeders keep lines less restricted, but with increased genetic testing, some improvements on the problems of line breeding can occur. More damage has been done in the past due to "popular studs" than line breeding. You get a stud that is widely used, especially in a limited group like the Basenji, and find out a couple of generations out that the dog is passing on a serious health problem, the whole breed suffers.

They are frail and they break down in Training, snap bones during races and it is horrible. <<
I suspect the push on young horses, the abuse of lesser grade/earning ability horses because they want to earn every buck possible, has more to do with it than the line breeding issue. Which is why you can take the horses and give them a chance for a healthy good life because you don't push them beyond their ability. If the issue were line breeding problems, then all the NON racing thoroughbreds would also be fragile and I have known a great many who are sturdy and healthy.

The Wolves were 'Omegas' which means they were afraid of everything. <<
No, Omega doesn't mean "afraid of everything." Really it doesn't. Not being dominant in a pack isn't the same thing as afraid. Any animal that is afraid of everything is more dangerous often than dominant dogs as reacting to fear is less predictable. A dog can be submissive and not be fearful.

Horse slaughter is actually illegal by virtue of the Humane Slaughter Act of 1958. <<
There are sadly negative factors to the ban on horse slaughtering.
http://newsok.com/horse-slaughter-ban-lifted-in-u.s.-after-report-on-unintended-consequences/article/3626719

As a horse lover, I cannot comprehend people selling horses for food. I don't understand abandoning your horse to slaughter houses any more than your dog to being killed in a shelter (like one local one that POSTS that many of the animals go to research facilities… and people still leave them ).

However, you are mistaken. It is legal, because while we may both agree that a bolt or even slitting the throat or any other method used to kill livestock isn't foolproof/humane, the laws say it is. So it is absolutely not "ACTUALLY" illegal or it would be, well, illegal and it isn't.

[eeeefarm]

The horse slaughter legislation brought a lot of misery to a lot of horses that were just shipped to Canada or Mexico instead, resulting in a longer transport, more injury, and the same fate at the end of the ride. The problem with banning slaughter is that realistically what do you do with all those unwanted horses?

Race horses being started early, (inadvisable) is driven by the industry, as the three year old races are the ones with major prestige. To have a horse ready to go in the Kentucky Derby, you are going to have to have someone on his back as a yearling and racing at two years old! I like endurance racing a lot better, as the horse must be five years old (his birthday, not January 1st) to compete, and there are vet checks en route to make sure the horse is still sound.

There are specific lines in Thoroughbreds that are known for particular weaknesses. e.g. ask a farrier, and he will tell you the Northern Dancers generally have poor feet. Because the winners of the popular races are often retired to stud early, they don't have time to prove if they can stay sound over the long haul.

Enough about horses. We have all seen what happens to dog breeds when style is preferred over substance. Fingers crossed that Basenji breeders do not fall into that trap! But perhaps they already have. Deciding that naturally occurring colours are undesirable is one obvious example…..

I like how the Sheepdog people think. Border Collies are judged on performance in trials, and nobody cares what they look like if they can perform.

[Timesthemyth]

I'm sorry to bring this up, but when is this DebraDownSouth person going to be dealt with. She absolutely ruins every post she comes across with her extreme accusations. She did the same thing to the other thread of the OPs as well…..Is there another moderator I can talk to about this?

She has scared many newcomers away.....and I've sat back with silence, but enough is enough. I feel bad for even getting involved in this **** show and helping to derail the post, but there is absolutely no defense mechanism for the people who start these posts.

If this keeps up I won't even bother coming back to the basenji forums. It's been overrun by bad blood (this one individual). I didn't want to bother someone with something so petty, but it's just becoming too much. This is the one place I can come and (usually) be met with civility....but one bad apple ruins the batch. The examples of this aren't difficult to find. This one war mongering simpleton has managed to disturb the peace time and time again. .....just need a name via PM that I can contact for a polite little discussion regarding the potential removal or limitation of this account. How is someone allowed to tirelessly bully numerous people with absolutely no recourse? It's easy to ignore a pesky mosquito for a little while, but eventually you're going to snap and lash out at it. It has ruined so many posts that started out with such great potential.

[DebraDownSouth]

@eeeefarm:

The digital age has somewhat muddied the waters. Once upon a time you could buy a book or a DVD and when you were finished using it you could pass it on to your friends so that they could enjoy it (you still can!), and that isn't considered stealing. Make a copy for them to view, with the same exact result (they get to see the movie or read the book), and suddenly it is illegal. The law was drafted to prevent people from making numerous copies and selling them for profit, a clear infringement to copyright. For a person to make a copy for a friend to view rather than snail mailing the original seems to be in a "shades of grey" area. I'd be surprised if most on this forum haven't at some point downloaded something for personal use that would infringe copyright if the letter of the law was applied.

You make a good point Shirley.. except that even 40 yrs ago you could tape or even xerox music/books to share, but it wasn't legal.

The problem is that if a person LOANS you his movie, snail mail, it goes to one person only, and it goes back to the owner… you don't get to keep a copy. If you put on a server, many can copy it. Right now musicians are in terrible financial straits over people pretty much stealing their work instead of buying it. Some music programs (I am blanking on names) pay the artists a bit every time you listen to their music, thanks to advertising. That's great. But if I want to own a song on my own computer or to burn on a disk, call me a patsy-- but yes, I buy it. I believe people who create books, music, art... they have a right to get paid as much as your plumber, mechanic or grocer. I don't sneak into movie theaters either, btw, not even if I could do it and not be caught.

Many digital books can be loaned, btw. I have borrowed a few and loaned many of mine through Amazon. You could, of course, just let someone borrow your e-reader or mp3 player, lol, but that's more generous than I want to be.

I don't know what the solution will be years from now... I know that cable companies tried to block recording movies and that didn't go over so well. So I do agree there are certainly conflicting and gray areas. But a cavalier approach to stealing, justifying it because the owner is rich, etc... that bothers me. And it bothers me for someone to try to pretend it is legal or for educational etc. If you are going to do something, man up.

Thanks for the calm voice.