@dagodingo - A very close friend told me after I lost one of my Basenji girls "you carry a piece of their soul in your heart forever"... I have always held on to that for all the Basenjis that I have watched cross the Rainbow Bridge
Wanted rehome/adopt 2-6 year old
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"We think basenjis affected with Fanconi deserve a safe and healthy life, so we will make sure that all of our basenjis are tested for Fanconi by DNA testing and/or venous blood gas testing as appropriate. We can then make sure that any with Fanconi are placed in homes that will have the vetting resources available."
I read that as making sure dogs that test as affected or are known to be affected will be getting the blood gases tested and be homed appropriately. You obviously couldn't "make sure any with Fanconi are placed in homes that will have the vetting resources available" if you didn't know their status.
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The DNA test shows if a Basenji is Clear, Carrier or Affected with the gene for Fanconi, if Clear/Carrier they will not get Fanconi, if Affected they will.
Not sure what you mean by "true start"?… And while BRAT provides information, they can and should (IMO) be DNA testing any and all rescues prior to placement.
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Speaking TRUTH is not disparaging. But you want me to disparage BRAT, with more TRUTH, here goes.
They place (I was wrong before, not 200 though I thought 200 was the NORM prior to the Wimauma dogs) about 300 dogs.
They have many many volunteers.
They send the dog with a packet of info and I think we all got a test strip. But I have talked to many adopters, and trust me, no one REALLY made sure they understood Fanconi or the seriousness. And yes, their page now says get the test. But there is a responsibility to make sure people whom you place dogs with ACTUALLY understand. Just posting it on the web and giving with a big pack of papers isn't enough.
Do they bother to follow up with a call in a month, 2 mos, 6 mos and even ASK if the person is testing? LOL. Hell no, which is why we have folks who have said on this very forum that BRAT "tested their dog for Fanconi" and thought the one strip test, or that the dog was strip tested clear at placement meant safe.
People DO NOT READ. I call foster homes CONTINUALLY for the first 6 mos during which time the home usually is a fit or not, so they know I am here, not judging and will be their first resource to return, not DUMP out of being embarrassed they couldn't make it work. Then annually. It doesn't have to be intense and long, 5 mins of good will, a "when and how was the last strip test?" BRAT doesn't do that either, or at least none I know of. Those are SIMPLE things BRAT could do to be more responsible.
As for FL, yeah, I think you purposefully ignored the obvious answer– if clearly effected, why on earth would anyone pay out $65 for the DNA test? They just start treatment and do VBG to see how bad it is.
As for "true start"-- let me type slow and explain for you. If you start these dogs on a little bicarb, they are hoping to never have the disease cause damage. They will be looking for a good 5 to 10 years evaluating what happens. That is what it takes to know.
As for treating before the "true start"... what a novel idea. Oh wait, it isn't. Prediabetics and people at risk for other diseases-- put them on diet, exercise, even preventative meds and they often avoid STARTING the disease or damage. I had freaking absolutely PERFECT blood pressure (110 to 117 over 60 to 70) when I was Dx with diabetes. They put me on low dose high blood pressure meds anyway. Why? To make sure if the common "true start" of high blood pressure in diabetics began, I'd minimize the risk. And yes, 10 yrs later I do have moderate HBP and am now at a whopping 40 mg of lisenopril (btw that is meant as sarcasm-- many people with HBP are on 2 or 3 meds, really high doses, IF they can even control it and rarely to my great levels!) to keep my BP at a good 110 to 120 over under-80. Did the early meds help stop it from happening-- no. But you can bet it helped protect my kidneys.
As for Brat and your accusation that I disparaged them-- again, I spoke the truth. No intent to trash them, but simply to speak the truth. They do not DNA test. They do not call and make sure each adopter actually understands Fanconi and the importance of testing. They don't call to see if the person IS testing. And they will not even allow an adopter to PAY to have a dog tested they are interested in. So hell yes, if someone asks about getting a dog from rescue, I am going to be responsible to that person and tell them IF they get a dog from BRAT that the previous owners didn't already DNA test, be aware they are taking a risk and be prepared to deal with it and to please get the dog tested. If any truth that doesn't make someone/something shinier is disparaging, oh well. As I said, other than this area, they do great. But this one area is enough I cannot recommend anyone get a dog there unless they know the facts. Better to get a dog from a breeder or another rescue that tests unless you are okay with getting a dog that COULD have Fanconi.
I will add this-- thanks to Dr. Gonto, with early testing and his protocol, it CAN be a minimal issue. It can be tested 2x a year at a cheap cost (some places as low as $25!), bicarbs cheap, and with EARLY or pretreatment, hopefully keep everything very good. It is only when you wait til there is a "true start" or things have advanced that there is intense issues. One day I hope it is so ... well no I don't. I HOPE we stop all irresponsible breeders so they aren't churning out Fanconi dogs. But failing that, I hope the research will show treating from the start might keep the dog from ever having it start.
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Bottom line, we now have a DNA test for Fanconi, shame on any kind of breeder that doesn't test first, shame on the ones that refused to use the linkage test, claiming that it was not exact… so they kept breeding Basenjis at risk. Shame on them now that we a direct test for not testing, used a number of other excuses... We have the knowledge and tests to never again have an affected Basenji!
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Pardon me for asking a silly question, but is it something about Florida's peninsular geography or state laws that makes it particularly vulnerable to bad BYB, people who dump their dogs, and the difficulty of networking with other rescue?
Florida, south Georgia, and south Alabama are attractive to puppy mills due to the mild winter temperature. The millers do not have to spend as much money on shelter for the dogs in these areas than they do in colder areas. Basenjis can be left ourdoors year-round. Many puppy mills only keep Basenjis for a couple of years because they discover that a breed with one litter per year, and an average of 5 puppies per litter, does not make much profit. The "breeding stock" gets sold to other mills and the cycle continues.
Mills do not care who they sell to so they sell puppies to people who are not prepared or suitable for the breed. They also sell to people who become BYBs who then sell puppies to poor homes. When these pups grow up, they end up in rescue or resold through Craigslist.
I have no doubt that Pam has her hands full. I applaud her for her concern and efforts. She is doing a good job.
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Sorry. It posted twice and I don't see a way to delete this post completely.
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Heard rumors of a basenji that tested by DNA as carrier that actually has Fanconi developed. No info on retest, or if person notified OFA or Johnson. But I did write OFA. Jon Curby responded that they have no knowledge of that dog. My advice is that if you personally know the person, tell the person to get the dog retested before spreading panic that the test is faulty, it's the RESPONSIBLE thing to do. Furthermore, 5076 Basenjis have been tested so far for Fanconi using the DNA test.
Edited: heard that OFA is aware, so above response is, well, disingenuous. To the point, they haven't CONFIRMED, but why not just admit investigating? The dog will get VBG drawing I think, though still not clear if they redid the DNA, if there is any possibility of acquired Fanconi, etc. And yes, I wrote back and told them it was misleading response.
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I have a question about Fanconi since I am a new Basenji owner. Can my girl still come down with Fanconi if she has
tested carrier? I have been told no, but than I have been told maybe. Should I start strip testing her at a year old
even if she is not affected, but a carrier? Thanks Also her test was done by OFA I think it was called the direct marker
test. I think. They sent me a strip and I had to swab the inside of her mouth put it on the tester they sent me, and send
it back. It took about 3 weeks to get the results. -
If you had her tested with the direct DNA test (Direct Marker Test) and she tested Carrier, she will not come down with Fanconi. There is no reason to strip test her. If it had been the linkage test, then the answer would be yes, you should test.
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Your dog will not get the genetic form of Fanconi, however, treats made in China have been linked to Fanconi, or a "Fanconi-like syndrome", so Fanconi can be induced by external factors. Although I am unclear as to if the induced Fanconi is reversible.
http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/fanconi-syndrome-and-chinese-chicken-jerky-treats/
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Okay so those of you on the list that has the person claiming their dog has Fanconi even though DNA carrier… Please share:::
Jon Curby
4:29 PM (52 minutes ago)to me
Hi, I don’t recall a case such as you describe and no one here at OFA would know to suggest that a VBG is used to confirm Fanconi. I checked with the lab and they don’t recall being notified either. I would need the dog’s name or registration number in order to research the situation.There is acquired Fanconi and always a chance that a sample was mishandled in the lab, but anytime there is a suggestion of an incorrect test the lab has always retested the original samples and/or requested new samples as well as reviewing the test results from parents and siblings.
Regards,
Jon Curby
OFA<< -
If you had her tested with the direct DNA test (Direct Marker Test) and she tested Carrier, she will not come down with Fanconi. There is no reason to strip test her. If it had been the linkage test, then the answer would be yes, you should test.
Okay thanks, I wont strip test her than.
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Okay so those of you on the list that has the person claiming their dog has Fanconi even though DNA carrier… Please share:::
Jon Curby
4:29 PM (52 minutes ago)to me
Hi, I don’t recall a case such as you describe and no one here at OFA would know to suggest that a VBG is used to confirm Fanconi. I checked with the lab and they don’t recall being notified either. I would need the dog’s name or registration number in order to research the situation.There is acquired Fanconi and always a chance that a sample was mishandled in the lab, but anytime there is a suggestion of an incorrect test the lab has always retested the original samples and/or requested new samples as well as reviewing the test results from parents and siblings.
Regards,
Jon Curby
OFA<<Debra, that was a Basenji that was tested carrier with the linkage test, not the direct test. And yes, it did start to spill and there were two like that
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See this is how rumors begin, then you get people saying DNA worthless, blah blah blah. Pat if you know the person, PLEASE for the sake of all of us AND the dog, get the person to get the dog DNA tested. I knew there were some issues with the linkage.
Though to me, with 5000 tested, there will be testing errors… so yeah why not do an occasional strip test just to be sure your dog isn't one. Won't hurt. In fact, will help check for diabetes too so it's not a waste.
Thanks Pat. -
Know what person? The person(s), there were two, that had Carriers that started spilling are both deceased and were deceased before the Direct Test came out, if I remember correctly.
There were really no problems with the linkage test, because that was exactly what it was, a linkage test, it was never claimed to be a direct test and was not meant to be used in that manner
So I am not sure what rumors you are talking about or where they are coming from or what prompted your email to Jon Curby… and if people want to test, up to them....
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Sorry Pat… there is a rumor NOW, not on a deceased dog, that a DNA tested dog whose results say carrier is actually affected with Fanconi. I have no idea if the dog has been retested (seems not, seems vet wants to test VBG to verify Fanconi first?). But then you get people now saying, OH TOLD YOU, the DNA isn't accurate. That part is what has me a bit steamed. Rationalizing not testing because of an unverified RUMOR of a dog who is a carrier by DNA has Fanconi, when the dog has not been retested nor has OFA been notified--- yet the story is public and starting the rumor mill that the DNA is faulty. And it could even be acquired. I just think starting to bash the DNA over this one is ChickenLittle time.
Sorry I wasn't clear.Even the freaking linkage, though we knew not perfect, was pretty close for what it was. Again from Jon Curby:
Jon Curby
to me
A couple of things. The linkage DNA test was very accurate and of those 435 dogs retested with the direct marker test only 3 have results not as good a the linkage test. Three normals that are now carriers. There was no research as to why those changed in that direction, could have been mishandling. There have been no dogs that were carriers that now test affected out of 106 carriers retested.Nrm now Nrm Car now Car Aff now Aff Car now Nrm Aff now Nrm Aff now Car Ind now Nrm Ind now Car Nrm now Car Total
Total 215 106 4 35 3 14 26 9 3 415Jon Curby
OFA<< -
I believe Pat/Tanza is referring to JEssica's dog [can't remember his/her name] and Julie's Diamond.
The problem with Diamond was that while his Linkage Test was Probable Carrier, he was from a Probable Carrier x Probable Carrier breeding, which means that Julie SHOULD have been test stripping because this dog COULD have easily been affected due to the results of the parents…
and having seen it happen to one of my dogs [we are in the same club].
My dog's linkage test result was Carrier and when re-done on the linkage test was Carrier again. She passed before the Direct Test and I have no idea if they ever re-did her test on the direct test to see if it was a DNA recombination or data entry error.
Diamond's initial results [that were sent to her] were p. Carrier and were obviously a data entry issue as when they re-tested on the Linkage test he DID test as p. Affected. This was done AFTER he started spilling sugar, as he wasn't strip tested until he was showing obvious signs of Fanconi Syndrome [excessive drinking and urination].I am with Debra… with over 5000 tested, there is room for error, it is possible with anything where there is human input.
