Question about neutering

[BasenjiDiva]

Jayden is 4 1/2 years old and we are having him neutered on tuesday (poor baby!). We are hoping that it will make him a little less edgy/nervous, make him stop trying to mount poor Cory every evening after supper, and make him less likely to sneak down the hall to pee. (Though he has been much, much better about that lately.) We have usually had female dogs in the past and this is the first time we've had a male dog neutered. I spoke to a friend today (another long time dog owner but different breed) and she said that having him neutered now won't help any of those issues and might even make his disposition a little less pleasant. She said the experience might create its more problems with his disposition and trust. Now I'm feeling a little panicky! Thoughts and comments please!

Pat
Cory and Jayden

[lvoss]

I got Nicky neutered at 7 years old. I had two intact bitches and he would go insane for a month, lose all sorts of weight, and it just wasn't fair to him.

The neutering makes him much more calm during breeding season, not completely uninterested but he can eat, and he can sleep without howling for the girls. It did not change his fundamental personality but it did give him more focus in training class and that worked wonders for him.

I don't know why your friend would say that neutering will create trust and dispostion issues. It may not solve your problems but if they are hormone driven you may see improvement.

[BasenjiDiva]

Cory is spayed and so her coming into season isn't a problem. However, every evening Jayden lhinks he should - eat, go out to piddle and poop, and then come in and drive Cory nuts by trying to mount her. Needess to say, Cory is not amused and has made it pretty clear that she is willing to neuter him herself. Fingers are crossed that he stops doing that. And it would be really nice if it made him a little less nervous around strangers. But I don't want to create a behavior problem by having this done either. So I was taken aback by my friend's comment. I've already made arrangements to have it done early so I can take him home rather that leaving him at the Vets overnight. I do know he would go nuts without Cory there for support.

Pat
Cory and Jayden

[tanza]

@BasenjiDiva:

Jayden is 4 1/2 years old and we are having him neutered on tuesday (poor baby!). We are hoping that it will make him a little less edgy/nervous, make him stop trying to mount poor Cory every evening after supper, and make him less likely to sneak down the hall to pee. (Though he has been much, much better about that lately.) We have usually had female dogs in the past and this is the first time we've had a male dog neutered. I spoke to a friend today (another long time dog owner but different breed) and she said that having him neutered now won't help any of those issues and might even make his disposition a little less pleasant. She said the experience might create its more problems with his disposition and trust. Now I'm feeling a little panicky! Thoughts and comments please!

Pat
Cory and Jayden

And I will agree that I have never heard of having a male neutered create disposition or trust problems…. sounds to me like she is putting human emotions to the dog... that is not typical. And I doubt that it would make his dispostion less pleasant.

That said... typical Basenji behavior is dominance over others in the home.. and sounds to me more this cast then anything to have to do with the male being in tact.

[BasenjiDiva]

I would say that Cory is the more dominant of the two….except after supper when he takes revenge on her. He eats and then gets feisty. It is most evenings and at the same time. Never the morning and never the afternoon. They start playing and then he gets over excited. Then he tries to get her. But, I must say that sometimes she seems to lead him on and sends what I as a human perceive to be mixed messages. If she were my daughter, I'd take her aside and tell her "You can NOT tell him "NO!" and then wiggle your butt and wink at him!!!" She raises her hackles, bares her teeth and snarls at him, and then wags her tail and gets into the let's play position.

Pat
Cory and Jayden

[Moth]

I have never had neutering make my male dog's dispositions less pleasant. It also has never created and trust issues.

Watson was just fixed and he is still the same silly boy he was before

[lvoss]

Humping can also be a stress reliever and some males will hump when they become overly aroused in play. The neutering may lessen the humping but chances are when he becomes really excited in play he will still do it. Nicky will sometimes be playing with the other dogs and then start humping, it happens when he hits a certain arousal threshold. His threshold is higher since neutering but he will still do it.

[DebraDownSouth]

If all he is doing is humping, you might simply need to get over it, lol. Dogs often hump for reasons other than sex and if it's not your leg or a guests, I figure all is good. I have had bitches hump each other as well as spayed/neutered dogs.

Going to pee is a human problem… train your dog. Leash him to you in the evening, take him out a lot more, block him going down the hall. And if this is new behavior, get him to vet to check for a UTI.

Unless you have intact bitches or neighbors do, I would be surprised to see much behavior changes in a dog his age unless those behaviors are hormone driven, as was said. But at his age, they have probably become LEARNED behaviors and neuter or not, you need to work to retrain him for those you cannot live with. If the humping really bothers you, the moment he acts like he is going to hump, leash and remove him from play. Do it fast and consistently, he'll get the message. Of course, he'll think "she doesn't care so why do you" but that is your prerogative. As for her... well your friend thinking he'll be traumatized over the loss of his testicles is making him a human in fur suit the same way your accusing her of, I guess, "asking for it." She is playing like a dog. She isn't enticing him to lewd or sexual acts, she is trying to play. If he humps, and she doesn't want to fight him for showing dominance in that way, then she doesn't care.

I rarely see semen involved in dogs humping each other. It is rarely sexual. I have seen many a dog get off humping a toy though. LOL that's where I draw the line, btw. Poor defenseless icky stuffy.

[BasenjiDiva]

@BasenjiDiva:

But, I must say that sometimes she seems to lead him on and sends what I as a human perceive to be mixed messages. If she were my daughter, I'd take her aside and tell her "You can NOT tell him "NO!" and then wiggle your butt and wink at him!!!" She raises her hackles, bares her teeth and snarls at him, and then wags her tail and gets into the let's play position.

I was making a bad attempt at being funny when I said the above. I knew I was humanizing something an animal was doing but I didn't communicate it well enough. That's why I'll never get the big bucks as a comedian!

Anyway, I think Jayden's humping is in the category of getting over excited and him using the humping to relieve the stress. The humping doesn't annoy me but it annoys Cory and then it sounds like a cat fight in the living room. Cory is very vocal in her displeasure and goes after him with all teeth bared. I do ultimately separate them until he calms down. Then it is over for the evening. Cory and I do hope that Jayden being neutered will bring it down at least a little. Not expecting miracles…just down a notch. The piddling inside doesn't happen often and may be a case of laziness or missed cues. But, since Cory and none of my other previous female dogs have been house piddlers, I am hoping that if there is any element of male marking involved, it will cease. It has probably been months since he piddled in the house. Except in his pen when I go to run errands. He always does that dispite having been let out to piddle just before being penned up. He is a little more nervous than Cory and if being neutered calms him a little....that would be nice too but I know his personality won't really change. That is okay....he is our big bubba and we love him.

My friend said what she said because she had a Basset Hound that was neutered at age 2 and she felt his temperment changed for the worse afterwards. I don't know in what manner it changed. It may not have had anything to do with the surgery but how he was treated. We had a dog years ago who would not let a male vet or kennel attendent touch him after a bad boarding experience.

Since I hadn't had the surgery done yet, I just wanted some reassurance before hand. Hearing that there could be at least a little improvement and there will be no negative effects is what I wanted and I do thank you all for that!:)

Pat
Cory and Jayden

[sharronhurlbut]

I had my boy neutered at 5. His personality stayed the same. I don't think you friend was correct on her comments. Do let us know how the surgery goes and how he does.
I was surprised how quickly my boy recovered.

[MacPack]

Eddie was neutered as a new rescue at 2 1/2, he hardly noticed, either physically or emotionally. Topper was neutered at 5 and he seemed to have a lot of pain, and DID act very strange (I guess I would use the word distrust, I had not thought in those terms but it fits) for several weeks. He became less intense (what we wanted) and mire easy-going over the next couple of years. Of all the dogs, male and female, we have steralized, he was the only one that seemed to glare at us for weeks!

[DebraDownSouth]

Okay, so if she objects, then yes, stop it now before they have a real fight.

As for piddling, if it is on the floor, not likely marking. Marking almost always involved hiking the leg up on something. This isn't a new behavior is it? If so, make sure they check for urinary tract infection.

[nomrbddgs]

IMO a dog of age two is usually still evolving in his mind. I consider all dogs as puppies under the age of three. Why you might ask? Experience. A lot of dogs will only start to show behaviours at age two and a half to three. I consider these behaviours to be true adult behaviours and not a puppy going through hormone changes. If a puppy at 18 months starts to exhibit strange behaviours, I put it down to going through puberty and trying to push buttons. After three, puberty is in the past and the true behaviour is now evident. Unless marked intervention at this point, I always find that the behaviour will escalate.

That being said, I have never had a dog change his disposition, unless a medical issue is evident after being neutered when older. I have neutered older than 9 and the only thing that changed was his desire to wander and they tend to get a bit lazier because the hormones are not urging him to find what is missing in his life. (A lady love)

As Debra said, I would consider the peeing in the hallway a learned behaviour at this point. He has probably gotten away with it and in my experience, dogs do what they are successful at. If he gets away with it, he will try it again, and again, and again, until he is no longer successful. Something like counter surfing. Shadow used to get away with it and will still eye the counter, but since he can't get away with it anymore (the duh person that used to leave food on the counter now puts it away after having his sandwich stolen, it only took about 4 years to get that one!) he doesn't try to get on the counter anymore.

Personally, I would neuter him if you are not planning to use him in a breeding program. I find them more prone to being calmer and more biddable (not by much as this is a B after all!) than if you leave him intact. Also, if you are not using him in a breeding program, this will put your mind at ease that this is definitely not a sexual experience for him. It definitely sounds like excitement over dominance as well. I have one girl, who will be spayed soon, that tends to get nippy with the other dogs and nasty when her prey drive escalates. That is when she HAS to go into a crate to settle down. She gets a chewy or toy in the crate and stays in for about a 15 min timeout to settle herself. I will expect her to settle down better after she is spayed. I may have her bred once more, but that will be it. Why have her get that upset if it isn't doing anything for her?

Just MO of course.

[DebraDownSouth]

LOL Arlene, I used to tell my Rottie pup owners I was there for them day and night until 18 mos to 24 mos when I would be on an island or mt top with no possible means to contact me.

[BasenjiDiva]

Thank you everyone for your thoughts. Since Robyn has decided to not use Jayden in her breeding program after all, I think we will go ahead and have him neutered tomorrow.
Jayden's disposition is so sweet and he is very affectionate. So I don't think "changing his disposition" is really what I meant. I know that was what I said but just couldn't think of a better word. Jayden just has a very sensitive "on" switch and goes from calm to crazy in a second. If Cory sees a dog walk by the house and gets excited, Jayden feeds off her excitement and pings off the walls, off furniture, etc…..literally! He doesn't even have to see the dog himself. Cory quickly gets over having seen the dog but Jayden is still bouncing off the walls......and then trying to hump her. He never just walks by and decides to start humping her....the activity is almost always a result of his state of hyperexcitement. Then when I hold Cory in my lap to keep him off her, Jayden lies next to me and tries to cajole her into getting down. He whines and nibbles her neck and actually chews (very softly and carefully) on her ears. Oddly enough, he is so gentle with the ear chewing that she actually seems to like it. I just hope the surgery will maybe calm him down just enough that his "on" switch from calm to crazy isn't quite so sensitive and the acceleration isn't so fast. I know the humping isn't sexual and Cory is spayed so that isn't a fear but I can count on a fight between the two of them just about every evening because of it. You know what it sounds like when two basenjis get into it......like two very loud Tom cats having a fight in your house! The rest of the time they adore each other.

So really, I'm not looking for a different Jayden. The one I have now is a delightfully obnoxious basenji. I just hope it makes him just a little bit calmer. If it doesn't, he will still be loved and I will know we gave it a shot. Plus.....his yearly registration tags will be $30 cheaper!:)

Thank you all,
Pat
Cory and Jayden

[Barklessdog]

We had our dog neutered and it made little difference in his behavior.

[DebraDownSouth]

Behavioral difference depend on the dog, the age the dog is neutered and other factors. Lots of studies on the topic but mostly you avoid the heightened mating response to other dogs in heat and chance breeding. Behaviorally, effects are generally not that much otherwise.