@elbrant That's good to know! We are in Kansas where pollen and allergies are rampant lol, I am wondering more if that's what it is since the build-up isn't increasing very quickly at all. Seems to be worse after we spend a while outside.
Puppy neutering!
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If you go to the original link that references LA you will see discussion why the numbers in shelters and euthanizing has gone up and down.
The second link posted is a pdf that lists what is required by the states across the country as far as neutering, license fees, taxs, and so on.
In a perfect world, maybe we would have responsible pet owners. Since we already know that not all pet owners are responsible, and you believe that a mandatory spay/neuter is not the answer, then what solution do you propose?
What do you think it actually going to work?
Seems this thread has moved away from the original question in regard to the appropriate age to neuter, and migrated to mandated spay/neutering concerns.
To answer the original question, in our opinion's we feel the best time to neuter a dog is after the growth plates are developed and are closed.
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Wow, some of the statements that have been made are pretty bold. Granted, its pretty easy to do a search and read on the internet but we already know that it is very difficult get in to Vet school, hard to qualify for it, and difficult to complete it. With that being said, we really do not feel that it is right for anyone to make a general statement about what most vets know and what most vets do not know.
We certainly do not think
We do not think so.
We still happen
Now we will not make a statement for all rescues,We agree there are pros, and cons in regard to this subject. We also agree .
We? Are you more than one person? Or is this a royal "we."
And sorry, but I have several good friends who are vets. HONEST vets will tell you that the vast majority of vets take little to no classes on nutrition. HONEST vets will tell you they do well to keep up with the things they HAVE to know without researching topics like neutering.
And yeah, it is shoved down owners throats, pushed as being THE only healthy option, THE only responsible option. It is. But then, you know that if you bother to look.
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Just because a bill was passed that mandated certain things in Southern California does not mean those mandates exist everywhere.
Is it better to euthanize animals/dogs to control population?
WE (ROFLMAO) are sure you know she didn't say everywhere and in fact WE know it because you quoted her.
WE also know you know that it isn't spay/neuter or euthanize to control population. WE are pretty sure you simply like to see yourself type.
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I have superb vets, who don't pretend they know everything and have always been willing to listen to my views, read research I send, discuss and pick up the phone OFTEN to call specialists to find out things that crop up. They one time did not listen early in my starting to use them that Rottweilers have an issue with anesthesia, used the normal amt and had a very hard time bringing him out. They TOLD me what happened, apologized and the fact that they admitted it let me know what type of folks I was dealing with. One vet sat in the barn floor with me on my 40th birthday CRYING with me over my daughter's sick pony. The other vet slept on the hospital floor next to my dog one night. I love them. And I love that they don't claim to know nutrition, about breed specific disorders until they get a dog with an issue, or that they are specialists in all things. There are many very good vets, and medical doctors. The best ones know and admit their limitations and work to overcome lack of info when they need to. The worse ASSume they know everything and are always right and think owners are idiots and treat them as such. Do not try to turn this into vet-bashing issue. It is not.
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We? Are you more than one person? Or is this a royal "we.".
Yes, we are more than one person! LOL!
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WE (ROFLMAO) are sure you know she didn't say everywhere and in fact WE know it because you quoted her.
WE also know you know that it isn't spay/neuter or euthanize to control population. WE are pretty sure you simply like to see yourself type.
Debra, we are certainly glad you are having so much fun that you feel the need to degrade the discussion. That is OK with us (us meaning more than one LOL) since it reflects directly on you. Since you stated in another post that you are a freelance writer, we will not take up any more of the forum's time or bandwidth defining the word we. The response provided to your original inquiry should be more than sufficient.
We, are glad you have friends and lots of them. Glad to you know that you are familiar and friendly with many Veterinarians. We wonder why you feel the need to assert this? One possibility that has crossed our minds is that maybe you feel this makes you special or some kind of expert. Either way, if that works for your self esteem and you feel good about yourself because of it, more power to you.
"The best ones know and admit their limitations and work to overcome lack of info when they need to. The worse ASSume they know everything and are always right"
We really like this part of your statement. Yes we understand its not the complete sentence you wrote. The meaning of this shorter version ironically applies to quite a few professions. By the way, if you did not catch it in the other thread, thanks for that tip on the search engine. We are sure it will come in handy.
People have different reasons for choosing the Veterinarians they want to work with and have look over their pets. The same applies to medical doctors that take care of human involved. We certainly do not wish to work with any Veterinarian or human physician that has a god complex and would like us to believe he/she knows everything. What is important to us is that our Veterinarian works together with us to provide the best possible care. We expect the same out of our personal physicians. Communication is very important as well as honesty.
This thread was not started to discuss Veterinarians or the meaning of simple words. It was started to discuss the subject of neutering and appropriate time in a puppies life to perform that neuter. If you would like to get back to discussing the original subject, we will be happy to continue to participate.
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On the subject of whether or not veterinarians push people to neuter their dogs irregardless of potential harm, yes of course many do. Veterinarians receive money for neutering dogs. They are not likely to advise against the procedure, since they have a financial disincentive to do so. Knowledgeable vets may suggest you wait until the animal is older, particularly if it is one of the breeds known to be affected adversely by early neutering. In a perfect world, all decisions would come down to what is best for the animal. We don't live in that world.
Many vets still advocate annual vaccinations, because they get paid to give them. Unless they are remiss in their ongoing education, they must know that this practice is unwise and potentially harmful with some vaccines. If your vet is unwilling to discuss the pros and cons of various procedures, then IMO it is time to seek another vet. Of course, many people assume the vet knows best and don't bother doing any research themselves. (yes, the vet course is challenging, but vets graduate knowing much in some areas of animal care, and not so much in others, e.g. nutrition, which amounts to a short course provided by dog food companies. Unless the individual vet keeps themselves informed, they may well be out of date on recent research. The same applies to M.D.s)
No, this thread was not started to discuss Veterinarians, but since the subject of veterinary competence in regards to knowing the right time to neuter came up, I think it is a valid point of discussion. Many people trust their vet to know the best course of action, and that isn't always the case.
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Very well said!
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While others here post both husband and wife, they are individual and self-sufficient enough to post in the name of the person who is posting. "We" is a way I suspect to avoid either claiming responsibility. How about putting who is typing?
Second, that you failed to grasp a basic is very sad but I'll make it easy for you. (Really, being honest you KNEW why but it was what you could find to try to make a fight)….
I said I have vets as friends to counteract the nonsense that I am attacking vets. Oh wait, I actually said that. Please quit trying to twist things for engagement. So not worth it. In fact, I am going to demonstrate my own advice and ignore trolling posts hence forth. How silly for me to respond when no one else misunderstood and only one person pretended to.
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While others here post both husband and wife, they are individual and self-sufficient enough to post in the name of the person who is posting. "We" is a way I suspect to avoid either claiming responsibility. How about putting who is typing?
Second, that you failed to grasp a basic is very sad but I'll make it easy for you. (Really, being honest you KNEW why but it was what you could find to try to make a fight)….
I said I have vets as friends to counteract the nonsense that I am attacking vets. Oh wait, I actually said that. Please quit trying to twist things for engagement. So not worth it. In fact, I am going to demonstrate my own advice and ignore trolling posts hence forth. How silly for me to respond when no one else misunderstood and only one person pretended to.
Debra, we will never allow anyone to dictate to us how we should post on any forum. In addition, we will not bullied into anything by a comment or statement that someone else makes. We are not of high school age and we don't care for the drama associated with that type of behavior.
You are welcome to suspect or make any type of assumption you wish that makes you comfortable. The context of the statement you made is an attempt at pure manipulation.
The facts are that this is an internet forum. Like any Internet forum or blog a person or persons have the right to an expectation of privacy. If they wish to disclose information about themselves then it is their choice only. In our view no one has the right to demand anything different.
We comprehend the majority of what is posted on this forum. We have no problem asking questions when we don't. We find your sentence that starts with " Second….." is written in a nonsensical way. We think you might have left out a word or two.
As far as we understand, adults having intelligent discussion on an internet forum are not looking for a fight. We find it unfortunate that you have that perception. If you feel the need to justify your decisions and behavior, we do not think anyone is stopping you.
Now that this is over maybe the discussion can get back on track.
