Linda, I totally understand your frustration and disappointment. Hoping you will find your perfect little companion soon.
Basenji wanted in maryland
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Andrea, I would never have interpreted what you said in the way Debra 'translated' your words. I read a straightforward post from you suggesting alternatives if 'rescue' didn't work out. From Dylan, "A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest". 'Nuf said.
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Thank you, Anne! I was starting to wonder about MY sanity!
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..edit out snarkiness.
To the OP, sorry. Understand I am on both sides… I value breeders (bred rotties, btw), I value the need to work to produce the best. But I also know that rescues, mutts, mixed breeds... they make as good as pets as anything produced by the best of breeders. And that sadly some breeders consider rescues to be competition. And while in some breeds, there are so many common health issues that truly your only good bet health wise is a responsible breeder, fortunately our breed is pretty healthy by comparison to many.
I should say that the breeders who post here usually, and that includes Pat and Andrea, are very responsible breeders. .
.. edit out continued fight... -
Breeders end up with adults for the SAME reason BRAT does… only difference is they are responsible and take back their Basenjis instead of them going to BRAT. So why is that so different?
And BRAT is not always the easiest group to work with in addition they do have restrictions that maybe a breeder with an adult to place might find acceptable.
EDIT OUT FIGHT..
We both know quite a few "responsible breeders" who are touted as so good, and don't take their own back. Sadly BRAT can't out them. Frankly I like some great Rottie clubs that toss members out who refuse to take back their dogs.And no, most breeders don't have adults for same reason as BRAT. Most breeders have too many adults due to breeding too often, having several retired adults (which can easily happen .. I understand, when you have a great litter, keep a few instead of just one).. bitches done breeding, etc. They don't have their offspring just returned in large numbers. Because if you are a breeder and regularly getting dogs returned, maybe you need to change how you place them and evaluate homes. I have had precisely 1 puppy and 2 rescues returned to me in all these years, and 2 dogs I took back. So no, breeders dogs are not in a "rescue" situation typically.
As for Brat not easy to work with? I have no idea what you mean so instead of me "interpreting it", please explain. BRAT does home placements with the same reasonable requirements of any of the many rescue groups I work with (not just basenji but chows, rotties, goldens etc). I don't find their placement requirements to be nearly as strict as mine for placing a puppy I bred. So please explain what is hard about BRAT and where a breeder would have lower requirements?
EDITED NOTE: Let me be clear to anyone reading this who doesn't breed. Responsible breeders will always have adult dogs. It isn't bad, it isn't lack of care. In fact, if you breed, unless you have unlimited space and lots of folks in your home, you either place adults who are not showing/breeding so they get an individual home and you have the space/time to continue to breed… or you stop breeding til you have space and time. My issue is when a breeder continually is maxed out with numbers of dogs and keeps breeding when they can't find homes for what they have. And while the typical pet owner may not understand how you can breed, raise and place a dog... the responsible breeders are the ones who work to improve the breed, to improve health, and if they don't let those dogs go, however much they are loved and want to keep them, then they can't continue to help the breed. Please do not anyone "interpret" my posts as being against that, because I respect and applaud it.
Life according to Debra... you are welcome to your own world and even to to prove where I am wrong in mine.
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I am in the Dayton, OH area and have an older brindle female-8 years old available. I am able to transport her.
Here is her petfinder webpage:
http://www.petfinder.com/petdetail/17056569
If you are interested, please contact jensrescue@yahoo.com for more information.
Thanks,
Jennifer Hill
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She is a cutie, Jennifer.
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Okay, deep breathes, a nap…
Andrea, I apologize if your intent wasn't how I read it. Sometimes in our enthusiasm to support something, we don't realize that it sounds like bashing the other. Like you, I wondered if I was insane. I had SIX people read your post and they all interpreted it the same. But the bottom line is that no matter how many people see it one way or the other, you get to say what you mean and I should have more diplomatically worded things by gently pointing out where I disagree. Blame it on a few months of minimal sleep, lots of pain, and lots of stress lately... I try to not fire off at people I respect.
However, your
Frankly, I am kind of sick of the world according to Debra!
indicates you have issues and were pretty ready to blow. If you have issues with my views, don't read them or state where and why you think I am wrong. I am not responsible for your being sick of anything, especially when you say nothing and then make a statement like that. I am happy that in Debra's world, I don't pretend to like someone and fester such feelings. Makes for a much more straightforward communication.
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I think when you clearly choose to ignore part of what people write and emphasize only what you want to believe about those of us who participate in these discussions, then it is clear that it is YOUR problem not ours.
There is nothing wrong with asking someone if they are open to other options and that isn't bashing the different options, it is a question. It is not incorrect to say that IF you have many SPECIFIC wants in a dog that you may want to consider different options than someone who has less specific wants.
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Amen to that lvoss…................ While there are dogs in rescue, there are also dogs for adoption from other venues.............
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I think when people write that you can get xyz from BREEDERS, and state they are the best option, then you are indicating rescues not such a good choice and the denial that is what is indicated is, imho, silly. I had no issue with offering other options, asking about other options, but with the indication that it is BEST. My opinion on that, now posted above.
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I am not going to spend much time defending myself..but a few points:
A. here is the OP's quote that caused me to think she MAY be interested in something other than rescue < -
Andrea, I agree and none of us who asked questions or felt that perhaps explaining what breeders may have available should feel like we did anything wrong. It is unfortunate that one person who has a bone to pick with breeders makes every thread that mentions both breeders and rescue into their soapbox and opportunity to bash those who feel there are many options available to those looking to add a new dog.
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First, wow, I thought personal attacks were not allowed.
Second… really?
So if people interpreted that I was contesting something, it was the notion of city vs. country…rather than rescue vs. breeder.
Since you kept saying BREEDER, what was the opposite of that responsible breeder since the only other option discussed was rescue? Really, what did I miss.
Third, I utterly disagree with your assessment. If someone INTERPRETS my posts that way, they need to say so at the time because trust me, when I MEAN to be such, there is no doubt. In reality, your character assassination and attack right now is more abusive than anything I have posted, period. Just a thought.
And if someone cannot put on their big girl panties and handle opposed, even STRONG opinions, that is their problem. If I personally attack someone, you have a point. Though generally my snarkiest comment is that someone is impressively uninformed. The few times I have been nasty have been about puppymill/byb or abusive handling… oh wait, and I was pretty NOT NICE about the person attacking her breeder here on the forum. People who think they are being bullied, shamed or embarrassed when someone asks for FACTS, PROOF, RESEARCH or clarification instead of a debate or honest request for info, again, their issue. Just like the recent thing on strip testing. I asked if it is anywhere. Response... personal experience. I wasn't bullying, shaming or trying to embarrass, I was asking for info. I got an honest response and not only accepted the validity but expressed I wished the person would try to get BCOA to include the suggestion for the betterment of our dog's health testing. I suggest though you find a way to ignore my posts as I am about as unlikely to not be forthright as some are to say something at the time it bothers them instead of make personal attacks later.
It is unfortunate that one person who has a bone to pick with breeders makes every thread that mentions both breeders and rescue into their soapbox and opportunity to bash those who feel there are many options available to those looking to add a new dog.
Finally, re lvoss.. I don't have a bone to pick with breeders. So let me challenge you to prove you post contains anything but a gross exaggeration. Check the last 20 threads where someone is looking for a dog. Really.. and find me that I have bashed breeders or those suggesting breeders dogs even 10 percent of them time, much less ""makes EVERY THREAD". Your globalization is a bit sad.
You know what, let me make it easier.. I'll find the last six months and you can then apologize for your gross exaggeration. Because my BONE isn't with breeders. My BONE is when breeders bash rescue or indicate a breeder dog is so much the better choice.
http://www.basenjiforums.com/showthread.php?t=11287
OMG, I pushed breeder dog. Wrong 1.http://www.basenjiforums.com/showthread.php?t=10163
Didn't bash breeders, did wonder why person was posting about her US litter on every thread, even when person in GB. But certainly not bashing breeders. Oh wait… uh oh. Not only DIDN'T bash breeders but came to defense of breeder and told person to take complaints private. Oh dear. Yeah I hate breeders. NOT.http://www.basenjiforums.com/showthread.php?t=10323
Uh oh.. more trouble for your theory… I even teased Sharon for suggesting brat when person already said contacted them.http://www.basenjiforums.com/showthread.php?t=10964
Wait, both rescues and breeders dogs suggested… no bashing here. In case you aren't counting, you are o for 4.http://www.basenjiforums.com/showthread.php?t=8641
Didn't even respond to this as several had suggestions. 0 for 5http://www.basenjiforums.com/showthread.php?t=10826
OMG… uh oh, supporting the breeders here as wonderful. 0 for 6http://www.basenjiforums.com/showthread.php?t=10738
Both rescues and breeders suggestions… again no bashing.. 0 for 7http://www.basenjiforums.com/showthread.php?t=10315
nor here… 0/8http://www.basenjiforums.com/showthread.php?t=10305
Nor here… and I think I was very nice to this person but heck this may be one of the posts I just got accused of sarcasm etc on. 0/9http://www.basenjiforums.com/showthread.php?t=10172
Nothing here. 0/10Okay back to OCTOBER 2010 on the sale/wanted.. Lets see about just rescue list…
Nope, only THIS thread since Dec. Bored with this one.
So here is facts (life according to Debra). You can accuse me of getting snarky when people indicate rescues are not just as good pets as from breeders, but your comment above is a massive exaggeration and inaccurate to the max.
So if your complaint is that when breeders try to say the best option is a breeder's dog, and that rescues aren't socialize (that was the last big blow up I was in several months ago, maybe you are harboring anger over that and imagining it is with every thread?) etc, that I jump in, well you are correct. But I will try to be less "Debraly" when I respond. That's the best i can do because having worked with rescues for some 30 yrs, I know their situations are desperately more in need of homes than a RESPONSIBLE breeder's dogs and that unless someone WANTS a breeder's dog, a rescue makes just as good of pet.
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You asked, I answered. I don't consider it a personal attack, if the list admin does, I am sure they will contact me privately.
Debra says:
<>
So, can I assume that you mean I don't have on big girl panties, and can't handle strong opinions? 'cause if that is what you are trying to say, you are proving my case. And if that is the case (which it is not) it is not just MY problem. It is a problem in the community of this board, because people are afraid to voice their opinion because your voice is overwhelming.
Again, you asked, I answered. If you would like me to comment on your posts each and every time I think you are over the line, I will...but that isn't really my job, and I don't want it to be my job. I am not the list police...and neither are you.... -
Andrea, there is a difference between debating, however strongly, a topic. When you go into personal attacks, another issue. Let me say it straight. Using your disagreeing with my style or my opinions to make personal attacks is, imo, more bullying than my expressing my opinions on topics. I guess if you make personal attacks, you are still miss saint. But if I strongly disagree about a TOPIC, I am a bully. Okay then. But note, I have on my big girl panties and am addressing it. If I didn't, I'd go crying to others how I am so afraid of the breeders here, blah blah blah. I am simply pointing out your hypocrisy in calling me a bully for strong opinions on topics and your jumping ME for "interpreting" or "twisting" your posts, yet you seem to do a magnificent job of that on mine. Either we both get to interpret and declare we are the expert on the other person's intent, or we both aren't. Just another thought.
And truly, I was unaware you speak for everyone and that so many are afraid to voice their opinion. In fact, I notice any time someone disagrees with me several jump in so obviously not that afraid.
However, I am sorry if people actually claim to be afraid to speak. I truly hope they learn it is a message board. People don't agree with you, they don't agree. What the heck is there to be AFRAID of? If you don't like someone's opinion, ignore it. If what you are afraid of is that someone might prove your opinion lacks logic, research or proof, well, that's another issue. But yes, you obviously DO think your job is to police my behaviors or you would confine yourself to discussing the topic, address a problem when it arises… and not a global analysis of my behaviors declaring me a bully etc. There is a big difference between saying "Heads up, that came across as sarcastic" and saying "You are a bully." I am sure you appreciate the difference.
And btw, YES, if you think I am over the line, please tell me at that moment. Really! It isn't policing when someone ASKS YOU TO GIVE INPUT. If I see it then, I can correct, apologize or at least understand the issue. You might not believe it, but it is rare my intent is to make someone feel bad. And if you tell me and it IS my intent, at least I can say so and there is no question. But if it isn't my intent, it is a win/win. I consider your view, change the post so that it gives what I WANTED it to. I mean that. Just don't wig out if I don't always agree. Even when I don't agree, telling me will help me spot the issues.
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hi Hazel-up. I'm sorry to hear that you lost your dog to cancer. I hope you can find one that fits in well with you and your family. Dogs add so much to our lives!
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I just hope that we can concentrate on providing Hazel-up with all necessary avenues of information so she and her family can welcome a new dog to their home. It does sound like they are ready to be loving dog owners again.
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hi Hazel-up. I'm sorry to hear that you lost your dog to cancer. I hope you can find one that fits in well with you and your family. Dogs add so much to our lives!
I just hope that we can concentrate on providing Hazel-up with all necessary avenues of information so she and her family can welcome a new dog to their home. It does sound like they are ready to be loving dog owners again.
Thank you Fran.
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Yes, thank you Fran for helping to get this thread back on track. I am sorry it has wandered so far away from the original request
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Thank you, Fran. Sorry for the hijacking.
And Hazel-up, no matter where you get your next dog, clearly it is in for a happy home.
