Aggression ONLY when in trouble…URGENT

[listeme]

Chairs, etc, are also useful in blocking a true attack. I don't have anything against a plastic bat, honestly; it's quick to grab in an emergency. (Although in an emergency, you're about as likely to grab a magazine rack or a pillow )

I didn't take your suggestion as a form of punishment, Debra, at all.

[DebraDownSouth]

Thank you. I mean, I'm the person who says the only use for a rolled up news paper is to hit yourself in the head while repeating "train my dog!"

[DebraDownSouth]

Quote:
once the owner gets their hands on the dogs collar she can easily hold the dog down to show that she has the upper hand. The dog may resist, but eventually will realize that the owner has more will. She may have to do this a few times but the dog will learn that it can not dominate her.

@listeme:

This is not recommended for any basenji I know. This is NOT the way to go.

Btw, I knew gjrcvw's boy (above) and saw her work with him and saw it work. (I loved that boy very much.)

I was so focused on the bat I missed that.

Alpha rolls, physical domination… that stuff went out with Kohler I hope. Your suggestion will result in 2 scenarios...
1. the dog chew the person badly
2. the issues escalate because physical response is the LAST thing this dog needs.

Oy vey.

[Basenjiblogs]

@DebraDownSouth:

Let me refresh what I said:

You act like I suggest the bat to beat the dog. Please reread. Beyond that, we'll have to agree to disagree. I suppose you haven't had a dog charge you, but I'd want more than a water bottle between me and a charging dog. And frankly, the water bottle might or might not work ONCE … probably not the 2nd time unless the dog is really bothered by it. Letting this dog continue to bite is dangerous. You act like a basenji is some fru fru 4 pound chihuahua, it isn't. They can do a lot of damage.

Whether the dog charges due to "forward flight" (ie fear biting) or aggression or because it is dominant, my concern is that the owner NOT GET BITTEN AGAIN.

The owner has had a lot of excellent advice. We'll simply not agree but I'd like you to stop acting like my suggestion was to use the bat to abuse the dog.

I am sorry, I was not intending to sound rude. I was a caught a little off guard with the baseball bat comment, thats all. I had never heard of that method before.
I am in no way a professional dog trainer and was just trying to offer my advise. I do realize you said "only as a last resort" and that you were not implying that she physically hurt the dog.. personally, I do not think I would ever use an object such as a baseball bat, even a soft one. But, I have never been put in that situation.

[Basenjiblogs]

@DebraDownSouth:

Quote:
once the owner gets their hands on the dogs collar she can easily hold the dog down to show that she has the upper hand. The dog may resist, but eventually will realize that the owner has more will. She may have to do this a few times but the dog will learn that it can not dominate her.

I was so focused on the bat I missed that.

Alpha rolls, physical domination… that stuff went out with Kohler I hope. Your suggestion will result in 2 scenarios...
1. the dog chew the person badly
2. the issues escalate because physical response is the LAST thing this dog needs.

Oy vey.

you must have got the wrong impression of what I was trying to imply…. I realize that physically holding a dog down to the ground will only escalate the situation. I should have worded that differently.

[DebraDownSouth]

I guess having seen dogs who are that upset, the probability of the person getting hold of the collar without being bitten is not good.

[gjrcvw]

@Basenjiblogs:

It is,again IMO, that the problem lies in the fact that the dog does not respect the owner and feels that it can dominate her. If we were talking about a large dog such as a Pitbull I could understand the need for some type of protection. But, we are talking about a Basenji. I was only trying to suggest a method that has worked for me. My feeling towards the situation are that the dog feels that it has the upper hand in the relationship and knows that it can "get away" with it's actions by charging it's owner.
I would suggest that the owner work more with the dog to show them that they are in control and that the behavior is not acceptable. using a spray bottle will catch the dog off guard. and, at the very least, give the owner a chance to react before being bitten. once the owner gets their hands on the dogs collar she can easily hold the dog down to show that she has the upper hand. The dog may resist, but eventually will realize that the owner has more will. She may have to do this a few times but the dog will learn that it can not dominate her. again, this is all IMO!

If I had done this to Pippin, he would have escalated, probably bitten me very severely, and would have been euthanised. Please understand that this method will absolutely not work for all dogs, and especially not for all basenjis. It is dangerous to human and eventually to dog.

[Basenjiblogs]

I do understand your point and was only trying to point out that there are other options than a baseball bat. As I stated, we are talking about a dog which weighs aprox. 20lbs. I realize not everyone can defend them self the same. but, a 20lb dog should not be able to over power MOST people..
I am not a dog trainer and am only offering my opinions, Honestly IMO any dog that shows that kind of aggression towards their owner has 1- a serious health issue that could cause said behavior, 2 - lack of proper training. Again, this is just my opinion.
When I was offering my advise I was using a method I had read of in a book and have tried myself. Though, I am providing a link to an article I have just stumbled upon that touches on this very subject…. http://www.pethealthfocus.com/articles/topics/is-cesar-millan-wrong.

[lvoss]

A twenty pound dog can still deliver a Level 3 or 4 bite which is incredibly serious. Deep punctures are high risk for infection not to mention possible damage to muscle, tendons, and ligaments. Telling people that they should try to restrain the dog is putting them at very high risk of serious injury even with a twenty pound dog. My husband very nearly had to be hospitalized due to a puncture wound that became infected even though he did everything right.

Using an object as a physical barrier or restraint is far safer.

[Basenjiblogs]

As I stated, I do understand that a dog of any size can do damage. I was only attempting to point out that "I" do not feel a baseball bat is the proper way to handle this situation. I would feel more comfortable recommending a mesh muzzle before I would suggest using an object to "beat" off the dog….. Although a muzzle may not be the ideal solution, I feel that it is far better suggestion than to use a baseball bat on a dog........ For any reason.
A baseball bat imo will only intensify the dogs behavior and not teach the dog that their behavior is unacceptable.

[lvoss]

Debra stated already, the baseball bat is NOT to be used to beat the dog off but to provide a physical barrier so the dog does not connect with human flesh when it charges the owner. You have latched onto one idea and are not reading what others are saying.

Trying to touch or restrain a dog that has entered "fight" mode is a recipe for disaster and advising people that it okay to do it because they are ONLY 20 pound dogs is irresponsible.

[tanza]

And the "Bat" that she referred to was a "plastic" bat, not a wooden one… again to ward off the dog from connecting with flesh....

[gjrcvw]

I think the most important thing to emphasize here is:
Do not underestimate the power of an angry basenji.

[tanza]

@gjrcvw:

I think the most important thing to emphasize here is:
Do not underestimate the power of an angry basenji.

Well put…

[Basenjiblogs]

@lvoss:

Debra stated already, the baseball bat is NOT to be used to beat the dog off but to provide a physical barrier so the dog does not connect with human flesh when it charges the owner. You have latched onto one idea and are not reading what others are saying.

Trying to touch or restrain a dog that has entered "fight" mode is a recipe for disaster and advising people that it okay to do it because they are ONLY 20 pound dogs is irresponsible.

I guess I was wrong to suggest something I had read in a book by Cesar Millan and have tried with success my self.
I did latch onto the idea of a baseball bat, I offered my "suggestion" and just like some on this forum that do not agree with my suggestion, I do not agree with her's! That is all!
Bottom line is that there is an issue with his dog that needs to be corrected… I was giving a suggestion, Obviously, I do not know her or her dog and can only suggest a method that has worked for me...

[gjrcvw]

It is good to share your experiences but you need to take seriously the advice of people who have experience and years and years in basenjis. I am telling you that with some basenjis your method will not work and is very very dangerous to both the human AND the dog, who will eventually end up euthanized because of handling in this manner.

[Patty]

Aggression begets aggression!

[DebraDownSouth]

Well that explains your views… Milan. A man who is going to get someone killed. How about I save a lot of typing and suggest you read this thread:

http://www.basenjiforums.com/showthread.php?t=9598

And again, you object to using a plastic bat between you and a dog why? You have latched onto the "baseball bat".. let it go, then picked it back up with fervor. Normally I'd quote many passages and go all Debraly on you but I am just going to shake my head and move on. You can stop obsessing over your impressive twisting of using a plastic child's bat to keep the dog off into beating a dog with a baseball bat, or you can stop… read, and let it go. Up to you.

[charles]

I'm brand new to the list. We received Rosie as a rescue dog 18 months ago. Near as I can fugure, she a basenji/lab mix. We go running (I walk, she runs) off leash at a cross-country course every morning, rain/snow/sun. She has boundless energy and I am hopelessly in love with her. Problem: recently she has been running off into the woods and disappearing for 1/2 hour or 45 minutes. Since she has done this on and off for 18 months, I'm not too concerned for her safety. My problem is that I call and call for her, offer her treats when she appears and kove her up all the time. How can I train her to come when I call? Charles

[agilebasenji]

Try Leslie Nelson's Really Reliable Recall method. available in dvd or booklet from amazon or dogwise.com