Wild pack of basenjis in rural Florida

[nobarkus]

@Quercus:

True….they don't look sick or skinny...and there are a lot of shots of them looking pretty darn happy.....but, it just freaks me out that no one is caring for them...and that they are just reproducing pell-mell....Is it really going to be 20 degrees in Florida? yikes...I'd better stock up on OJ now....

They look quite fit and actually in better shape than those living in crates in basement kennels. Maybe there's shelter on that land you just can't see from the fence line. I don't know.

[Kananga]

Yea, I suppose in Florida they don't have some of the same laws that we have up here when it comes to canines living outside. Warmer months require approved shading and the winter months requires an approved dog house (that meets certain guidelines).

This cold snap is a bit of a rare event, but still… strange that they'd allow a property owner to have that many dogs within city limits.

[Quercus]

At the end of the still photos, it looks like they took a bunch of dogs out of this guy's house at another location, in St. Pete? Including a BUNCH of tiny, tiny puppies. Anne, do you know if the B community can help in any way?

[AJs Human]

I think the conditions are deplorable. The dogs, while seemingly well-fed, appear to be allowed to breed however they want to. That is bad enough.

However, keep in mind this is Florida. I just checked the weather in the area and the coldest it is supposed to get is 31F. Our dogs are very hardy because they basically live wild in Africa and are often not provided shelter and have to scrounge for food. They probably already have thick undercoats.

I believe the dogs will be rescued after public pressure is placed on local animal control. There are legal procedures that have to be followed. Regardless of how we would like to see these animals removed immediately, the law must be followed and evidence has to be gathered. Have faith…in both the dogs and in the system. It works slowly in Florida for animals, but it does work.

[MacPack]

Other than the weather we are currently having, the dogs are probably less stressed than they would be at the shelter with barking dogs all around, their pack all divided, on a concrete floor in a cage. Hope the owner will be forced to spay/neuter and care properly for them. The puppies, at least, need to be removed and homed, though!

[Quercus]

@MacPack:

Other than the weather we are currently having, the dogs are probably less stressed than they would be at the shelter with barking dogs all around, their pack all divided, on a concrete floor in a cage. Hope the owner will be forced to spay/neuter and care properly for them. The puppies, at least, need to be removed and homed, though!

I agree Anne. That sounds like a really reasonable goal.

[tanza]

And if these dogs are unsocialized, they had already Packed… and that means survial of the fittest.... meaning lots of fights for social standing in the pack. This happens many times to hoarders that keep all the dogs outside in pens/groups. While the conditions they live in and/or the dogs themselves may not be bad, the problem is the pack situation

[nobarkus]

@MacPack:

Other than the weather we are currently having, the dogs are probably less stressed than they would be at the shelter with barking dogs all around, their pack all divided, on a concrete floor in a cage. Hope the owner will be forced to spay/neuter and care properly for them. The puppies, at least, need to be removed and homed, though!

I agree too Anne. They are better off there then in concrete cells with the stress of dogs barking and crying 24/7. I agree with Pat as well, no one there watching or supervising and and so any fighting and injuries that may occur do not get attended to. Those 2 guys in the video did not mention they saw any fighting.

[Quercus]

@nobarkus:

I agree too Anne. They are better off there then in concrete cells with the stress of dogs barking and crying 24/7. I agree with Pat as well, no one there watching or supervising and and so any fighting and injuries that may occur do not get attended to. Those 2 guys in the video did not mention they saw any fighting.

And the dogs don't look like they have been fighting. Could well be that there isn't a lot of fighting, because there isn't a resource control issue. If the guy is feeding them plenty (which he says he is, and their condition indicates he is), fighting (probably) only becomes an issue when there are limited resources…for most of us with multiple dogs, the human attention/status is the most valued resource, so we have fighting occasionally.

[Basenjimamma]

..just saw this on my facebook page…from The Basenji Magazine's page

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2010/jan/06/062156/dogs-seized-pinellas-wimauma-group-shivers-cold/

Hopefully they are one step closer in getting these dogs the help they need/deserve, whether shelter form the cold or vetting. This man needs to get his day in court, IMO.

[nobarkus]

@Quercus:

And the dogs don't look like they have been fighting. Could well be that there isn't a lot of fighting, because there isn't a resource control issue. If the guy is feeding them plenty (which he says he is, and their condition indicates he is), fighting (probably) only becomes an issue when there are limited resources…for most of us with multiple dogs, the human attention/status is the most valued resource, so we have fighting occasionally.

And there is plenty of space too. Crowding can cause fighting.

[Kona]

Anne - please let us know if anything new develops and we can help. Can't help but wonder if our Kona girl may have been part of this pack before she was picked up by the humane society. We are happy to help rehome to prevent them from being killee.

Just send me an e-mail over the weekend if anything new turns up. I will be in Gainesville but Justin will be home.

Let's just hope they can get these pups some shelter from this weather over the next few days. Also if the puppies they confiscated turn up in a shelter hopefully the Tampa group can band together and make sure we can save them.

Keep us posted.

[MacPack]

Will do, Lisa. The local BRAT person is working with the Pinellas SPCA and BRAT will officially help as well. As the dogs are not in any acute distress (according to the Hillsborough animal control person who went there) they can't be confiscated without legal steps, which evidently are in progress. The dogs and pups that WERE confiscated in St. Pete yesterday are not listed yet at the SPCA.

We are trying to find the address of the property and see if food drops are needed. If we could just take a hay bale to insulate the culverts they use for shelter and drop a 40 lb bag of food every few days, I think they will be fine till things are decided…they have been getting along there for years, evidently! I think they must have dug dens somewhere, they have 5 acres! Our local BRAT person says that the dogs of his breeding that she has fostered and homed are very sturdy and socialize well.

Will keep Justin posted if anything changes.

[lvoss]

Be very careful about doing food drops and providing bedding material because you may be preventing the county from making the case they need to get the warrant to seize them.

[MacPack]

Local TV ran an update this evening:
http://www2.tbo.com/video/2010/jan/07/dogs-running-wild–09818/video-news/

The dogs (estimated at around 50) are playing, lounging in the sun. Shows a lean-to of sorts and I'm willing to bet there is a den dug in there behind boxes. Animal control was out there again today and is doing it "by the books" so it sticks when they make their case.

It is warmer today but expected to have freezing rain this weekend. Basenjis usually find a way to be dry, I imagine this long established pack has some shelter somewhere on that 5 acres (at least I surely hope so).

[Basenjimamma]

Thanks for the update Anne..
I hope the animal control will do the right thing and seize these dogs and get them vetted. They all seem pretty wellfed so starvation isn't as big of a worry, but shelter and worms and such would be. Even if he feeds the dogs, aren't there laws and such that prevents one man to have taht many dogs on one property?
Here in Houston, depending on where you live it can be from 1 dog allowed to three..never in the 45+ range. I realize all states have different laws, but I am curious as to what goes in Florida..

[lvoss]

There are probably laws limiting the number of animals but if they use those laws only then he will be allowed to keep up to that number and they will likely have this situation again in a few years. They said he was already cited 2 years ago when he had only 7 dogs on the property. Animal control wants to build a case so none of the dogs have to go back to living in those conditions.

[Basenjimamma]

Yes , you are right, this man needs to loose all his animal owning priviledges..
I was just wondering how it got to where it is..crazy, he even says himself that he has tried to catch them and have them spayed/neutered, but he has been unable to…

[YodelDogs]

never mind

[MacPack]

He has 2 properties, a home in St. Pete, where the confiscated dogs were living with him, that is where he was cited 2 years ago.

These dogs are on a very rural piece of property in another county. The law says dogs need to be licensed but I don't think there is a limit on the number of dogs way out in the country. I guess we have to be patient.

I am a minimal BRAT member, I do transport, etc., but they are standing by to help this situation, so if anyone wants to contribute money or think about fostering, this is a good time to build the bank balance and participate! I know this is way over the heads of our little dog park group, so I am glad BRAT is standing by to help.