Breeder not doing Fanconi testing?? Do I just walk away?

[starrlamia]

Sorry but if you dont health test your dogs esp for illnesses that are prevelant in the breed then IMO you are not a responsible breeder, I dont care what breed you are breeding or have been in the year X number of years. The purpose of breeding is to better the breed and it is too easy to breed dogs that have recessive bad genes without knowing. NVM the fact that you cant just breed your dogs, even if you have a large kennel at some point you need to bring in DNA from outside of your lines and unless that breeder is testing there is no way to confirm you arent breeding those bad genes into your lines.

[DebraDownSouth]

People stated facts.

Show of hands, who else suspects this new poster is the breeder? LOL.

[Chealsie508]

DebraDownSouth- funny isn't it- everyone who comes on here to defend this thread is from the same place. You can't see my hands but they're up. haha

[moetmum]

@Northern:

I first discovered this forum back in August while doing my research on the Basenji Breed and thought it would be a good place to read about other Basenji owners stories and training tips, this is what it states in the rules for the forum, much to my surprise it turned out to be more like a soap box for particular individuals ? and you know who you are!

I wasn?t going to give these vultures another soap box to air their unfounded slander and opinions but feel I need to respond to the accusations made about a particular breeder in Alberta, why, because it?s slanderous and borderline defamation of character.

My questions to you all are, have you ever met this breeder? Have you ever seen the dogs? I know you haven?t, furthermore, what are your motives for this slander? I have been in communication with this breeder for some time now, have met with the breeder and the dogs and these dogs are beautiful examples of a true Basenji. I have done extensive research OF MY OWN and can attest to the temperament, conformation and beauty of these dogs. On a visit I even got kisses and according to my research that is not typical of a Basenji when it comes to strangers. This breeder?s dogs are beautiful, social, sweet and wonderful dogs.

The breeder you vultures claim not be reputable is simply untrue, this breeder has been breeding for over 20 years with extensive knowledge of this breed, with champion lines and loves these dogs and this breed and it shows in the concern for proper placement, temperament and socialization of the dogs. These are some of the many reasons why I chose to purchase my little baby boy from this breeder. I have spoken with other breeders as well and did months of research before coming to the decision and I am completely happy and confident in my decision.

I have read other posts in other conversations on this forum and you vultures are argumentative, rude and just plain obnoxious. You make slanderous accusations with no concrete proof, you argue and cut down any opinion that isn?t in agreement with your own, since when is one person?s opinion the end all and be all. There were even other members of this forum that considered leaving because of this attitude.

For those of you interested in this breed, do your OWN research, don?t take the word of some internet posts by individuals that seem bent on forcing their opinions down everyone?s throats, and do like I did and do your research and judge for YOURSELF. I ask that you keep in mind not everything you read on the internet is the truth and others opinions are not the end all and be all, form your own opinion by gathering your OWN knowledge.

As for those of you that like to sling slander, you know who you are, don?t bother responding to this post as I will not respond to your rudeness and give you another opportunity to get on your soap boxes and air your slander, rudeness, ignorance and just plain crap, you obviously have much to much time on your hands!

I am very disappointed in this forum, I thought it would be a good place to correspond with other Basenji owners, too bad, it was a good idea.

It would have been nice to have posted an introduction as your first post!

I don't know the breeder you are talking about so have no comment on that but this thread was about Fanconi Testing. It is the view of the majority of B Breeders worldwide that it is very important to test and hopefully eradicate this dreadful disease in Basenji's. I would not allow anyone to use any of my dogs and would not use a dog not tested for Fanconi. The test isn't the definitive test, we are aware of this but we keep testing using the only means we have. I certainly would never buy or recommend to buy from breeders who haven't tested the parents.

Whether a dog has a lovely temperament or excellent conformation is totally irrelevant if it isn't healthy.

I have been in the breed since 1988 and there are many on this forum who have been in the breed much longer and do know what they are talking about!

[Itzyu]

@TwinPeaks:

I have another view on this Fanconi testing - and a breeder who elects to not test.
Most people commenting do not understand that the gene has NOT been found. The results of this testing do not indicate fanconi gene because the gene HAS NOT BEEN found!!!!!!!!
Also the program has been haulted. No further work is being done to FIND the GENE should it even exist. Do you people know that OTHER BREEDS can contract Fanconi not only the basenji? Are the other breeders forced to submit to this testing??
Get your facts straight before negatively impacting a Basenji breeder with impecable credentials. The harm you do is irrepairable.

I don't have any comment about the Basenji breeder in question, but your statements above about the Fanconi test are not correct.

The area of the gene has been located. The results of this testing do indicate Fanconi gene status as it identifies DNA markers that are strongly correlated to Fanconi syndrome in Basenjis. A DNA linkage marker test, when validated, is a DNA test that indicates that certain DNA patterns known to be close to the gene indicate various carrier states.

An analogy would be if we had three people in my home town - we didn't have the street address, but we know one lives close to the red barn, one near the lake, one near the highway. The gene is between the markers, and different marker patterns indicate different versions (alleles) of the gene.

It's like saying there are three houses between the red barn, the lake, and the highway, and if I have a grey house, it's mine; if it's a brick house, it's Cretia's; and if it has a stable, it's Karen's. The different patterns of DNA markers similarly describe the different versions of the gene.

The research program for Fanconi has not been halted. That statement is absolutely and completely false. Research is ongoing.

[Itzyu]

I realized the above post may be a little confusing - essentially what I'm saying is that one marker pattern (red house) may show carrier; another marker pattern (brick house) may be clear; etc.

Marker panels are used when you don't have the gene itself mapped, but you have various landmarks that you know are nearby, bracketing the gene. The research then correlates the markers with various versions of the gene. If you get a very high degree of correlation, you have a test.

[Itzyu]

The Canine Health Foundation discussion of the original Fanconi test development is at http://www.akcchf.org/research/funded-research/0801.html

The OFA page on the Fanconi Syndrome test is at http://www.offa.org/dnatesting/fanconi.html

The most recent update on Fanconi to BCOA is referenced at the annual meeting powerpoint at http://www.basenji.org/joomla/images/bcoa2010.pdf - note that it references the 2009 research update, the 2010 research update, and that inconsistent results thus far are 4 out of 1089 carriers, which currently is consistent with a high level of accuracy.

I think that should make it VERY clear that Fanconi research has been continuously ongoing.

The current advice from BCOA to puppy buyers, as given in the Basenji Health Pages on the BCOA web site, is as follows:

"Owners should insist that at least one parent of any puppy they purchase be tested “Probable clear” for Fanconi, unless the pup itself has been individually tested and was not tested “Probable Affected.” While not a guarantee of health, studies to date indicate that dogs with one or both parents tested probable clear are very unlikely to develop the disorder."

That is directly from the health pages on the BCOA web site and does accurately reflect the advice given to BCOA by experts. In fact, the statement above is a close paraphrase of the researchers.

[sharronhurlbut]

Quality breeders do the fanconis test before they breed. Those that don't, well, I can only assume they are more "for profit" breeders.
As I don't know this breeder, this is my thinking to share with others, who are looking for basenji puppies.

[Tayda_Lenny]

I have not read all the messages in this thread - but to answer the question in the subject line. Should you walk away from a breeder not doing Fanconi testing? No, you should not walk… you should... RUN

I have a B with Fanconi - I love her to death, but would never EVER get another Basenji from a breeder that did not test.

[curlytails]

Itzyu, that's great information. I like the house analogy.

I don't think TwinPeaks or Northern Gurl are the breeder. I do take them at face value as having purchased (or about to purchase) dogs from the breeder, and loving their dogs very much. We've seen this before a couple times, where owners get defensive about their breeder perhaps because it can take a long time to find just the one and we feel some investment in our decisions.

Yet, it does sadden me to see such incredible defensiveness around the practice of not testing – this should not be condoned. To this day, anyone can go to the OFA database and note that there is one single Fanconi test listing for this breeder's kenne (and no other tests publicly listed, whether or not she did them)l. That is what everyone is saying is not okay here, for all the reasons outlined by more experienced voices above.

If the breeder has a change of heart and starts testing, I for one would be more than happy to commend her for her progressive actions. Better late than never.