Any Lost Traits

I am curious to know, since the time that Basenji's were imported into the United States for breeding purposes, have their been any lost traits during the process?

Someone mentioned to me yesterday that years ago Basenji's used to have hooded ears, where the ears leaned more forward on the heads? Is this true?

If the above is true are there any more traits that have been lost through breedings?

Just Curious

Jason

I don't think this is lost per se but I think the eyes may have gotten more of a rounded almond shape on some vs more of a sharper look.

The standard calls for ears to be hooded. I think that there are still basenjis with hooded ears. Some traits have become more rare than others.

Traits that we do seem to have lost is Cream and Mohogany Tri though with new imports we may see those again.

Right now it seems the things being most lamented are good almond shaped eyes, well placed fronts with good fill, and short muzzles. I am sure there are other traits and it probably depends on where you are located also.

Hooded ears are still around.. My Fatia has wonderful small hooded ears… Maggii had small ears that were slightly hooded. And Kobey has a great set of small hooded ears.

The biggest thing I notice now are the round eyes, instead of almond shaped eyes... But things seem to go full circle over the years... Other then color that lvoss talked about, I think that the traits are still there... depends on what people are breeding

Houston

Not that I am a breeder, but the thing I have noticed in older pictures vs older is how the red is getting paler over the years. The dogs from the past seemed very dark, rich red..could just be the picture quality I don't know.

Otis does have hooded ears, but they are on the large side, I would say.
.and yes the eyes seem much rounder now then in older pics.

@Basenjimamma:

Not that I am a breeder, but the thing I have noticed in older pictures vs older is how the red is getting paler over the years. The dogs from the past seemed very dark, rich red..could just be the picture quality I don't know.

Otis does have hooded ears, but they are on the large side, I would say.
.and yes the eyes seem much rounder now then in older pics.

It's funny how things vary from country to country. I feel the opposite is happening in the UK in that dogs are becoming a darker red than years gone by. I agree about the eyes being rounder rather than almond shaped. But the one thing I have noticed is the improvement in temperaments from years ago which has to be a good thing.
Kwame has lovely small hooded ears and Belle's are also hooded but in comparison to the her head size could do with being a fraction smaller.

One thing that an older breeder from Australia (can't remember her name to save my life) mentioned at the breeder seminar at this year's National…

Her thought was it seems in North America we are losing the short back & square basenji. She went on to explain that a longer dog would always appear to move better than a shorter backed dog as it automatically covers more ground when it moves.

Could some breeders on here speak to their thoughts on that.

@Basenjimamma:

Not that I am a breeder, but the thing I have noticed in older pictures vs older is how the red is getting paler over the years. The dogs from the past seemed very dark, rich red..could just be the picture quality I don't know.

That was something that was discussed recently in another thread - can't find it but I remember Khani's posting some pics of chestnut basenjis.

@renaultf1:

One thing that an older breeder from Australia (can't remember her name to save my life) mentioned at the breeder seminar at this year's National…

Her thought was it seems in North America we are losing the short back & square basenji. She went on to explain that a longer dog would always appear to move better than a shorter backed dog as it automatically covers more ground when it moves.

Could some breeders on here speak to their thoughts on that.

Well, typically they do move better if they are a tad longer in the back and I don't think they really cover more ground, but that the movement looks free and easy… what you lose with a longer back usually is the top line, it doesn't stay solid but becomes soft when moving. With a dog with a short back they really must be moderate in the shoulders and the rear angles. If not they have to alter their movement in order not to step on themselves.

Many of these links have good insight to conformation and movement
http://www.webpage-world.com/vicjudges/basenji/BASENJI.html
http://www.azbasenji.com/basenji_standard.htm
http://home.intekom.com/mwanamatapa/abjudging.htm

@renaultf1:

One thing that an older breeder from Australia (can't remember her name to save my life) mentioned at the breeder seminar at this year's National…

Her thought was it seems in North America we are losing the short back & square basenji. She went on to explain that a longer dog would always appear to move better than a shorter backed dog as it automatically covers more ground when it moves.

Could some breeders on here speak to their thoughts on that.

I think her name was Doreen Duffin. She also seemed to be concerned about the appearance of the neck in the US, not as long and elegant looking as in the past.

@renaultf1:

That was something that was discussed recently in another thread - can't find it but I remember Khani's posting some pics of chestnut basenjis.

It was this one.

http://www.basenjiforums.com/showthread.php?t=7059

IMO some necks are getting way too long and the basenji standard section on 'lightly built' is getting some dogs with a significant lack of body or depth of chest. Small hooded ears when they exist are lovely but are also something that ones sees less and less of.

Long back/ short back - think of not just a long back but WHAT is long - is it the rib cage or the loin. If the dog is longer in loin that throws off the topline more.

Tail curls should be flexible for the dog to not get hung up in brush but some have gotten so hung up in a tight ridgid curl that the tail would actually be broken if straightened.

I see some increase in the snipiness of muzzle and hardly ever see a nice almond shaped eye.

On the other side however I do see overall some better balance - used to be you had dogs that could move and were longer backed OR you had pretty typey dogs that could not move - now I see a better blending of those two types.

I also see much better temperaments generally speaking.

I'm not sure what hooded ears are (though I have a guess) - can someone point to a picture?

Houston

I found this online, it shows all the standards with pictures of correct and also some wrongs. I hope it helps. Scroll down a little bit until you get to the ear part, but it is all very interesting.
http://www.azbasenji.com/basenji_standard.htm

The pictures are still mostly ok - but here is a test for you all - read through it and tell me how many different ways do they describe ears. List the adjectives.

That might give you an idea of what the issues are when describing the dogs - our standard is not alone in this either and it's the bain of the judges breed test when it happens like this.

Describing something in words when the language is not applied consistently and universally is always a problem – it's the same in any descriptive science. I can appreciate the difficulty of being a good judge.

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