Your guys opinions on a breeder?

[innociv]

Well this time of year I've had trouble finding Basenji puppies. The only one I've found in driving distance is about 7 hours away in Georgia(so a whole day counting there and back).

I haven't called yet, but some things I noticed that are worrying is that it says Health Guaranteed but doesn't mention anything about Fanconi syndrome.
I've seen other breeders websites and they often actually have scans of their dogs papers there.
Also, this breeder I believe breeds 3 liters a year. They have 11 4-5 month olds now. It says that they are kept outside, except for their adult ones.
Are there issues with having them kept outside? Basenji's are an inside dog after all. I'm not sure how long they keep them with their mother.. I'm going to call soon.

[tanza]

@innociv:

Well this time of year I've had trouble finding Basenji puppies. The only one I've found in driving distance is about 7 hours away in Georgia(so a whole day counting there and back).

I haven't called yet, but some things I noticed that are worrying is that it says Health Guaranteed but doesn't mention anything about Fanconi syndrome.
I've seen other breeders websites and they often actually have scans of their dogs papers there.
Also, this breeder I believe breeds 3 liters a year. They have 11 4-5 month olds now. It says that they are kept outside, except for their adult ones.
Are there issues with having them kept outside? Basenji's are an inside dog after all. I'm not sure how long they keep them with their mother.. I'm going to call soon.

I believe I know the place. She also has other breeds (Bassets and French Bulldogs)…. and IMO it is NOT appropriate to keep them outdoors ... I believe that litters need to be in the home to be properly socialized. And 3 litters with also other breeds (basset and frenchies), how much time can you spend with each pup properly socializing? But with that many pups... and other breeds, certainly would be difficult to keep them in the home. Yet another reason that this person may be breeding too many litters.

While this particular person does more health testing then other BYB's or at least she did in the past (at one time tested much of her breeding stock for hips, while many of them came back as a Fair, it would depend then on how they were bred if hips could be a problem), you still would need the information on the sire and dam of each puppy and verify yourself that they have been fanconi tested on the OFA website and not just take anyones word for health testing. Also with that many litters, I would also want a DNA parentage test.

At one time (and I don't know if she is still using this particular dog for breeding) there was a brindle and the sire and dam that was shown as his registered parents, could not possibly be correct as there was not one brindle in the pedigree going back 10 generations. It was impossible that those papers on that particular dog was correct. Giving her the benefit of the doubt however, she did purchase the dog from another BYB that was getting out of the business and those were the papers that came with the dog.

I think that her price are way to high for the quality of pup that she is selling, but that in my opinion.. and there is a reason that she has so many pups left.... as compared to responsible breeders that usually have reservations for their pups before they ever breed a litter.

According to her website she does sell with limited AKC papers meaning that people can't just buy her puppies as breeding stock and if they breed them they can't register the pups with AKC... so that is good if that is really the case. Other then the price, and if the health testing checks out for Fanconi, there are certainly others that are far worse

[innociv]

Thanks a ton for the very helpful response.

They breed bassats too, i'm not sure about french bulldogs. But yeah.. it does sound like you're thinking of the person. I didn't know if it's appropriate to name who they are.

And yeah, other breeders I talked to near by said they tend to have all the puppies called for before they're 10 weeks old.

And yeah, the price does seem high ($1200 for some) but if fanconi checks out and I want them, I could negotiate price.

If one parent is fanconi free, and another is a carrier, the pups will not get fanconi, right?
I think if they could potentially have Fanconi, it'd be better I get a rescue.. I can't wait 8 months.

And why is limited AKC papers good? What if I wanted to breed them at once point?

[tanza]

If one parent is Fanconi free and the other is a Carrier, they will not get Fanconi, but the offspring would either be Clear or Carrier and if a Carrier could produce Fanconi. So it is very important to know the status of the parents and of the pup, as there is no such thing as Clear by Parentage. Remember too, there is more to testing then just Fanconi. There are hips, there are eye problems in our breed one that is genetic late onset and causes blindness, thyroid issues…. So testing should not just stop with Fanconi. You should learn about Basenji health and remember, only a board certified Ophth is qualified to exam the eyes.
http://www.basenji.org/PUBLIC/HealthInfo.htm

They have Frenchies on their website that they breed…

Before you would even think about breeding, you need to consider why you would want to? What do you have (what you are breeding) to offer the breed? Why are you breeding? Are you trying to improve the breed? And it is a costly venture... I don't know of any responsible breeder that makes money on breeding, lucky if you even break even. Are you prepared to be responsible for those pups for their entire lifetime? Here is a link to one person's breeding costs...
http://www.basenjiforums.com/showthread.php?t=4429&highlight=breeding+costs

All of my pups are sold on a spay/neuter contract. If they are show and maybe breeding prospects in the future then they are sold on a co-ownership.

You really would be better off talking with responsible breeders and getting on their waiting list for a puppy, IMO. Sometimes you have to learn wait…. I waiting for over a year for my first Basenji puppy....

[mauigirl]

cringe

This happens so much more than I would expect/hope, that new members don't do their homework on the forum's general community approach to key issues like breeding because you happen to have an intact animal.

This is where dog and cat overpopulation comes from. I don't think the special-ness of seeing your pet have babies and be a mom is worth the possibility of contributing to a really really big problem. It's not like they will pop them out and everything will be perfect, it takes a lot of work.

[kiroja]

I hear you. I also want to add that I wish more people would consider other options when they think about breeding. If they love their pet so much and think they're perfect and want a puppy just like them (of course, who wouldn't?) maybe it's time to do a little homework in a different direction. Leave the hassles and many hours and dollars involved in researching and breeding a litter to those who have been there and are prepared to deal with things and know what they're doing. Just because you have a nice dog, when you breed them it doesn't mean you're going to get a bunch of nice puppies. The best thing to do is look at the dog's pedigree and find out who are some of the resposible breeders of the parents, grandparents, etc. back in the pedigree. Go to them and find out about getting a puppy from their future litters, there are lots of decendents out there and I'm sure you can find one with a similar family background. That will probably give you a better chance at replicating your wonderful family pet than going out and doing it yourself. Plus the breeder will help pick out the perfect puppy match for you.

Also remember that genetics is only half the battle. The environment and how you raise your puppy will greatly affect what they turn into. So if you did it right the first time with your current dog, you have a decent chance of raising your new puppy into the same things you like about your other dog(s).

[tanza]

And while all breeds need new people…. before jumping in to be a breeder and breeding a litter, consider this... find yourself a mentor to teach you about the breed. Get involved in showing, performance events, club activities, rescue. Learn about the breed.... Know that there is no money to be made breeding a litter and doing it right... if you are lucky you will break even....

[innociv]

No I wouldn't think of breeding to make money. 8 puppies in a year, 800 each, is $6400 for 6 months work. That's very little money for all that work even BEFORE expenses. I would because I like them a lot, and would get to raise some puppies. I don't think they all have to be show dogs.

I talked to some breeders, and one of them I really like, but that's 8 months away.
I looked on BRAT and two that I want are both out of state and saying "pending" so I believe they're spoken for.

[lvoss]

8 puppies in a year? Most basenji litters are between 4-6 puppies.

It is true that not every dog needs to be a show dog but it is important that breeders are involved activities like showing, coursing, etc. These activities help a breeder maintain perspective. It is easy to become kennel blind.

Also, if you plan to breed you need to be prepared for the reality that things do not always go as planned. There are a few threads on this forum about people's experiences when whelping did not go well. It can be very emotionally draining.

[tanza]

Average litter size is 4 to 6… for Basenjis... My litters were 6,4,4, and 4

As lvoss pointed out there are other threads of the heartbreak that breeding can bring... along with the cost....

Again if really interested in breeding, get involved with the breed first.... find a mentor, go to shows just to watch, go to lure trials,... join a regional club if there is one in your area. For a real learning experience, go to the Nationals...