Trimmed tail

[Quercus]

@ibi_n_sane:

please look you must see it, afghan hounds, irish setters etc.hairs must be longer, more and more angulations, more and more chest, the dog must have the perfect "human idea" picture while stacked, I am sorry it is the truth and a very hot topic over here in europe
I must admit that I like the golden retriever type and sheltie type more over there in the USA.
some breeds are damaged everywehre like the english bulldog, the german shepherd and the sharpei , horrible what these breeds look nowadays just because the humans like them better this way …...

I think you know what I am trying to say, it starts with triming, where does it end?

Well, Afghan hounds, Irish Setters, those are man made breeds…so I suppose that people can make them look however their fanciers agree that they want them to look. If there is disagreement among the fancy, which I am sure there is...they have to find some common ground. I do hate to see when artificial selection/human selection starts to interfere with the structural health of the dog...i.e. bulldogs, etc. Those breeders need to evaluate what they are doing, and see if the 'look' is worth having a dog that can't breath properly...obviously it doesn't seem logical.

Basenjis, as you mentioned, are a natural breed...and yes, I think our duty is to preserve, rather than improve the breed. And I think that we do a pretty good job of that, based on how similar the dogs that are being brought out of Africa look to those that are currently in the show ring.

IMO and IME...a trimmed tail ends in a trimmed tail? not everything is a slippery slope....

[ibi_n_sane]

@Quercus:

IMO and IME…a trimmed tail ends in a trimmed tail? not everything is a slippery slope....

thank goodness not!!
but the hairdo of poodles was of great function also, and that went into a slippery slope, maybe innocent but you get my point
but not the trimmed tails ( I dont have a problem with that like I stated befor ) what about the preference for a very tight double curl??? how efficient is that in the bushes of africa?? when the tail cant curl out and they get stuck in the bushes ????? that can have horrible consequenses
most of the african basenjis have a single curl or even not a curl at all but a very loose curled LIKE tail some breeders want more and more wrinkle in their basenjis…. ( that is how the problems started in sharpeis as well )
and by recognizing only 4 colours allthough in africa there is a range of colours, the dogshowpeople have allready interferred a lot in the "modern" looks of this breed
fortunately there are always breeders that stick to the health of the breed and breed according to the breedstandard but not only to get the prettiest picture of a dog, but breed normal

[Buana]

@ibi_n_sane:

I hate it when people trim the whiskers of their basenjis, these are important organs and not just thick hairs that you need to trim so the dogs face looks more silk

I hate that too, once a breeder asked us if we were stupid…
I asked why and she answered "you have to trim the whiskers for a show"
We walked away and tought by ourselfes she was the one that's stupid..
If you look at your B, you see during the whole day, they use their whiskers....

We trim the tails before shows with a scissor that has a light curve.

[Basenjimamma]

I got to add my five cents in, I agree with what has been said in the previous posts about letting the dogs be dogs. The other thing that somewhat bothers me is that The B's clearly came /come in more colors from Africa than what is considered true/acceptable color. Why is that? Like the creams and blues, etc. If we truly want to save the breed from various things like ailments, bad temperament etc, why not also make sure all colors don't disappear? Those traits aren't as in important persay, but none the less the way they are/were in the wild. just a question I have been trying to figure out.

As far as tail trimming, I did Otis' a little bit last night and I think I like his tail trimmed so you can see the definition in his curls..as far as whisker, no way..

[renaultf1]

…trying...to...squeeze...in...here and say:D:D:D:D:D...

I agree, I hate the whiskers trimmed...and wish that we could leave the tails "au naturale" for the show ring...

I know someone that trims their basenjis' whiskers (and even the ones that he handles for other people)...I told him that and if the time ever came that he showed a dog for me I expressly prohibit him trimming the whiskers. :D;)

[tanza]

@Basenjimamma:

I got to add my five cents in, I agree with what has been said in the previous posts about letting the dogs be dogs. The other thing that somewhat bothers me is that The B's clearly came /come in more colors from Africa than what is considered true/acceptable color. Why is that? Like the creams and blues, etc. If we truly want to save the breed from various things like ailments, bad temperament etc, why not also make sure all colors don't disappear? Those traits aren't as in important persay, but none the less the way they are/were in the wild. just a question I have been trying to figure out.

As far as tail trimming, I did Otis' a little bit last night and I think I like his tail trimmed so you can see the definition in his curls..as far as whisker, no way..

Where is it written that they (Creams..etc) at not acceptable? Even the first Avongara's were imported, most were Reds… granted there were a certainly different shades of red, from very pale to very dark. There are registered Trindles, Creams, etc... There is NO DQ in Basenjis. The color might not be exactly listed on a registration slip (for AKC), but they can't have every combo known? My opinion is color is not important... health and temperments and conformation are.

[Benkura]

@Buana:

I hate that too, once a breeder asked us if we were stupid…
I asked why and she answered "you have to trim the whiskers for a show"
We walked away and tought by ourselfes she was the one that's stupid..
If you look at your B, you see during the whole day, they use their whiskers....

We trim the tails before shows with a scissor that has a light curve.

My Nakura has curly whiskers. We joke and call them her 'Wonky Wickers'. Someone even called them pubes because the curly one is black! :o

At a show a few weeks ago (where I won BIS with Chance! ;)) there was a man selling dog bedding etc. He said I should lose the whiskers. 'All whiskers must go!'

I don't know what breed he has but needless to say I never took any notice of him. Noodle will remember the conversation well. (Tyne Wear & Tees show)

[tanza]

@renaultf1:

…trying...to...squeeze...in...here and say:D:D:D:D:D...

I agree, I hate the whiskers trimmed...and wish that we could leave the tails "au naturale" for the show ring...

I know someone that trims their basenjis' whiskers (and even the ones that he handles for other people)...I told him that and if the time ever came that he showed a dog for me I expressly prohibit him trimming the whiskers. :D;)

While I do not trim whiskers (I do tails which I think makes the Basenji look better and shows off the body better)… you will find that most handlers will trim whiskers on any dog they are showing....as a general course of grooming

[SenjiShowgirl]

i actually prefer shaved whiskers, but the tail i like to leave natural. i LOVE his furry tail. Kelli wants the tail shaved and it does make his hind end look better but i just like it furry.

[tanza]

@SenjiShowgirl:

i actually prefer shaved whiskers, but the tail i like to leave natural. i LOVE his furry tail. Kelli wants the tail shaved and it does make his hind end look better but i just like it furry.

LOL…. and I will agree that shaved whiskers does make for a nice appearance (as does a trimmed tail)... they use their whiskers.. so I leave them on... that said, one time Maggii stuck her face in the oven/broiler trying to steal a scallop... cinged off one side of her whiskers... so for that show season, she was shown with no whiskers....

[renaultf1]

@tanza:

one time Maggii stuck her face in the oven/broiler trying to steal a scallop… cinged off one side of her whiskers... so for that show season, she was shown with no whiskers....

LOL…Liyah shortened a couple of whiskers this winter by hitting them against the glass on the woodstove. Ruby lost some of hers the same way. It happened when they were throwing a busy buddy around and a piece of kibble went in between the glass and the cast iron on the front of the woodstove. Good times. :D:eek::rolleyes:

[Quercus]

@ibi_n_sane:

no I dont know you very well , as well as you dont know me, and that is also the problem with the internet as it is difficult to read intonations

and I am talking about dogshows, and I am sure you must see what I see , and yes a lot of americans show for appearences, it is even worse then over here in europe where it is starting to get out of hands as well!!

please look you must see it, afghan hounds, irish setters etc.hairs must be longer, more and more angulations, more and more chest, the dog must have the perfect "human idea" picture while stacked, I am sorry it is the truth and a very hot topic over here in europe
I must admit that I like the golden retriever type and sheltie type more over there in the USA.
some breeds are damaged everywehre like the english bulldog, the german shepherd and the sharpei , horrible what these breeds look nowadays just because the humans like them better this way …...

I think you know what I am trying to say, it starts with triming, where does it end?
and again, dont take it personall, when you have nothing to do with it you dont need to take it personal right? anyway it would be a nice discussion as it is obvious what most humans do to dogs just because it looks more pretty and that is going on for ages!

@renaultf1:

…trying...to...squeeze...in...here and say:D:D:D:D:D...

I agree, I hate the whiskers trimmed...and wish that we could leave the tails "au naturale" for the show ring...

I know someone that trims their basenjis' whiskers (and even the ones that he handles for other people)...I told him that and if the time ever came that he showed a dog for me I expressly prohibit him trimming the whiskers. :D;)

Watch out! Some of those people will smile and nod, and when they have your B in their possesion, shave those whiskers right off

[lvoss]

There is so much in this thread that I want to respond to. I guess I will start with the double curled tail thing. I really hate how people equate a double curl to the an inability to uncurl the tail. This is not true. I have dogs with tightly curled tails and I have one with a loose single curl. All my dogs can readily uncurl their tails and I have never had problems with them even when out hiking. I do uncurl my dogs' tails regularly as part of their handling training because so many people are drawn to those tail and seem compelled to uncurl them. My loose curled tail girl is probably the most tail sensitive of all of mine.

Next the thing about color. Though the standard only mentions four colors, as has been pointed out there are no DQs in our breed. This is one area where the US is in much better shape though than other countries. Even though there are some judges, breeders, and exhibitors with color prejudices here for the most part color is not nearly as controversial as it has been in other countries. There are finished trindle champions and many breeding programs that have used dogs with colors or markings that may not be considered to fit the standard like trindles, fula blacks, blues, and pintos. This becomes more an issue of whether a breeder is willing to look beyond the surface of a dog. As for the historic reasoning for breeding away from creams and blues, it was based on what was known at the time which was in many other breeds these colors are associated with health problems so the founders decided it would be best for the breed to breed away from those colors. Now, with new information, we know that health issues are not always related to these colors.

The bottomline, breeders need to keep the whole dog in mind, health, temperament, conformation, and performance. Each will put different amounts of weight on each category or even subcategories but that is why it is important for people looking for a dog to do their homework and really get out there and talk with several people in the breed not just 1 or 2.

[tanza]

Just to add on the "uncurl" tail comments from lvoss, I too as a regular course of handling my B's uncurl their tails… that said, Kristii has a "kink" at the very end of her tail that doesn't uncurl... nor do I attempt to ... Maggii who had a fairly loose double curl (because it was not well set on her butt) had the same kink as her daughter, Kristii.

[lvoss]

Yes, mine also have some permanent kinks but these are small and would not hinder them freeing themselves of dense brush.

[tanza]

@lvoss:

Yes, mine also have some permanent kinks but these are small and would not hinder them freeing themselves of dense brush.

I totally agree

[Basenjimamma]

What I meant was that AKC only accepts four colors, at least that is what is stated on their website. Why is that? I mean since clearly they came in more colors then 4.

[renaultf1]

@Basenjimamma:

What I meant was that AKC only accepts four colors, at least that is what is stated on their website. Why is that? I mean since clearly they came in more colors then 4.

That isn't correct. If you look at the breed standard on AKC, there would be disqualifications listed under colour for colours not allowed. Like Pat says, they can't list every colour combo that is acceptable…instead they would list disqualification colours if they existed.

[lvoss]

sWhat do you mean by "accepts", they are registrable, breedable, showable, coursable, so to me that would seem to be accepted. They are not in our standard but that is written by BCOA not AKC and the membership is quite split in their feelings about color and the standard so it is unlikely that we will see a change anytime soon but nothing is preventing these dogs from participating in AKC events and being used in breeding programs.

[Basenjimamma]

What colors are there?

Like the American standard says, there are four accepted Basenji
colors– black, red, brindle, and tri (black and tan). All four colors
have white feet, tail tip and chest. Most Basenjis have more white
than that. There were other reported colors before the recent African
imports--creams, blue and whites (tri marked dogs with cream instead
of tan), saddle marked tris (like beagles) and tricolors without some
of the standard tan markings (often called "Fula" tris). These colors
have been bred away from and don't usually show up in today's U.S.
breeding stock. With the addition of the African Imports of 1987 and
1988, the tiger-striped brindle color (in reality, a pattern) was
added to the AKC standard as an accepted color. While brindle had been
seen and actually brought into England in 1959, the color was frowned
upon, and lost to the Western world until now. As with the original
basenji imports of the 1930's, the unusual colors have returned, and
are again being bred away from due to the preference of breeders. The
only "new" variation that appeared with the new African imports is the
brindle-pointed tricolor; this is a classic tricolor with black
stripes in the fields of tan.

Ch Bushbabies' Avatar of Voyuz, photo by Cook PhoDOGraphy

As it is with many things, the color of basenjis is mostly due to the
preference and whim of the breeders. The most common color for
basenjis is red and white; and most you will see are, in fact, red and
white. Blacks and Tricolors tend to be seen less frequently; but they
too can be found if that is what you are looking for. The current
"fad" color is brindle, with more and more being bred shown, and sold.
There should be no difference in purchase price based on color. People
that charge more just because of the coat color are doing so to make a
quick buck and should be avoided.

There are many dogs whose coat color varies from the four recognized
colors; but that should not sway you from a decision if you are
looking for a companion to love. The coat color of a basenji has no
effect on its ability to wriggle its way under the bed covers; or beg
for food at the kitchen table. Let your own preference be your guide.

All Basenjis should have dark brown eyes and deep liver to black
pigment. A basenji with lighter-colored eyes (such as yellow or gold)
would have difficulty seeing in the bright equatorial sun of Zaire and
would suffer sunburns from pale pigment.

This was found when Basenji colors was googled...I guess I shouldn't believe what I read.