I may have to give them back to BRAT

Behavioral Issues
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  • N

    @senji:

    I know I could put her on meds but I don't want to drug her for the rest of her life.

    Please don't think this way.
    My Katie is on prozac and it has helped her so much that I wish I had put her on it from the beginning. She is still herself, and still my sweet lovely girl, it just helps her to take the edge off. Along with behavioral interventions it made it so that the good days outnumber the bad, and so that one scary incident doesn't lead to days of hiding.

    Make sure you work with a behaviorist, (http://www.iaabc.org/) and give it time. But definitely do not rule it out outright.

    -Nicole

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  • nobarkusN

    Please take her in for a vet check and full blood work up right away.

    Buddy, Paolo and Dan

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  • N

    In addition to a full chem pannel, also consider sending blood to Dr. Jean Dodds at Hemopet for a full thyroid panel. Just a normal T3 isn't enough because autoimmune thyroiditis is missed that way.
    Have blood checked for rickettsial diseases as well. Lyme and erlichia can display as behavioral abnormalities.
    Thankfully all of these tests were normal for Katie, but it does help peace of mind to know that you have checked everything possible, and I have known dogs with sub-clinical hypothyroidism that were helped immensely by low dose thyroxine, and I have known one dog who had lyme and erlichia that explained his behaviour changes.

    -Nicole

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  • basenji_fanB

    I now you say you don't want to drug her the rest of her life, but look at in another way; how many people in your family or people you know have to take a daily medication. We may not want to but we have to because there is an imbalance in our bodies so we have to take the medications to help us balance out.

    I have to take medications 2 times a day, not by choice really but if I don't I become very ill because I suffer from debilitating migraines, and the meds I take are preventives. If I don't take these drugs I seriously cannot function at all, I get migraines to the point the I literally loose vision and my other things, it's bad. But that's my point I know we don't all want to to take meds or give meds, be in that situation but if it will help your animal it's a better choice for them.

    Crate habits - start all the way from square one again, limit the size of her crate; dogs will not like to potty in the same place they sleep this is true. Okay you are thinking but she does and then steps in it or maybe just goes in one corner of her crate and then stays smooshed into the other side of the crate.

    I have a foster from BRAT and he's about 24wks now and when I got him he had little to no potty understanding for the crate. I had him in a medium size airline crate, and he decided to "finger paint" in his crate gag my husband and I had to carry him outside before letting him out LMAO after that I took a round laundry basket that I had and then a cardboard box and stuck those in the crate and it made so the crate was about a 1/3 the size. The pup literally had just enough room to squeeze himself turn around and lay down; he couldn't fully curl up in a basenji ball. But with that he did stop peeing and pooping in the crate. I left his crate like that for a week, then I tried taking everything out, nope he peed in it again, I stuck the laundry basket back in. Another week went by then I took the basket out, now we have gone 3 days with a dry crate when ever I have left.

    I am like you and only leave for short periods also.

    Try this starting this training method with her: http://www.basenjiforums.com/showthread.php?t=2055&highlight=NILIF basenjis are such stubborn little dogs LOL and they will test you at every chance

    Here's another good one from Tanza (about just placing yourself as the pack leader): http://www.tanzabasenjis.net/welladjusted.html

    Sometimes with rescues (even adults) you have to start all over like a clean slate a fresh puppy slate - basically pretend you are getting a puppy. And unfortunately it sometimes happens that you won't notice changes or behavioral difference until after they have "settled" in for a bit (sometimes months).

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  • S

    Do let BRAT know what issues your having and ask for their help.
    I know they try to support everyone who has adopted from them.
    I so hope you can get this worked out.
    Please let us know how it goes.
    Let me ask, are they crated when your at work and then again at night?

    Sharron Hurlbut

    BRAT, basenji rescue

    Evergreen basenji club

    Seattle Purebred Dog Rescue

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  • nobarkusN

    @sharronhurlbut:

    Do let BRAT know what issues your having and ask for their help.
    I know they try to support everyone who has adopted from them.
    I so hope you can get this worked out.
    Please let us know how it goes.
    Let me ask, are they crated when your at work and then again at night?

    You're absolutely correct. I just brought home a tri from Southern CA BRAT, Medfly Brigade Basenji Rescue. The lady who runs it, Karen Jones is so helpful, she calls to see how it's going and answers all the questions I have. She insists I call with anything I need. They are really wonderful!

    Buddy, Paolo and Dan

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  • senjiS

    @sharronhurlbut:

    Let me ask, are they crated when your at work and then again at night?

    I am a stay at home mom so I leave for things but no set schedule. Deke and Gracie are crated when we leave and at night. They love their crates and go right in, curl up and sleep. Britty is only crated when we leave because if I don't she pees and poops in the house. At night she is fine.

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  • dashD

    I am so sorry you are going through this. I think it is more difficult when you are trying to do the right thing and have a difficult time with it.

    Thanks for adopting from BRAT and doing your best to give these girls a good home. As others have said contact your BRAT coordinator. Maybe the foster parent can give some tips.

    I agree with the ex-pen idea for starters. However, it sounds like she has separation anxiety like you said. My guess would be that it started that she was anxious and then had an accident and it has now become a habit.

    Have you tried restricting her feed or at least feeding/watering when there is plenty of time to go potty before you leave?

    Increasing her exercise?

    Do you start to notice the nervousness when you are getting ready to leave?

    Was she fine in the beginning and then all of sudden she started messing the crate or did she always have accidents and you just weren't sure which one was doing it?

    Have you tried videotaping her when she is in her crate? I am guessing she probably pees and poops within 10 minutes after you leave.

    You mentioned that she freaks out when you are all outside together and wants back in the house. Is it possible that she was startled when whe went outside to potty and now does not want to go back out? That happened with my previous fosters.

    Jennifer

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  • dashD

    Crate habits - start all the way from square one again, limit the size of her crate; dogs will not like to potty in the same place they sleep this is true. Okay you are thinking but she does and then steps in it or maybe just goes in one corner of her crate and then stays smooshed into the other side of the crate.

    I do not agree with this for dogs with separation anxiety. Their mind is in a different place and this will make it worse.

    Jennifer

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  • QuercusQ

    @nkjvcjs:

    Please don't think this way.
    My Katie is on prozac and it has helped her so much that I wish I had put her on it from the beginning. She is still herself, and still my sweet lovely girl, it just helps her to take the edge off. Along with behavioral interventions it made it so that the good days outnumber the bad, and so that one scary incident doesn't lead to days of hiding.

    Make sure you work with a behaviorist, (http://www.iaabc.org/) and give it time. But definitely do not rule it out outright.

    -Nicole

    So good I wanted it to be seen again ^^^^^

    Andrea Walters

    Quercus Basenjis

    NW Ohio

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  • QuercusQ

    @dash:

    Crate habits - start all the way from square one again, limit the size of her crate; dogs will not like to potty in the same place they sleep this is true. Okay you are thinking but she does and then steps in it or maybe just goes in one corner of her crate and then stays smooshed into the other side of the crate.

    I do not agree with this for dogs with separation anxiety. Their mind is in a different place and this will make it worse.

    I have to agree. If it is just a case of not caring whether they poop in their crate or not, the above would work. If the poop is happening BECAUSE they are in the crate, it would just intensify the panic and negative association with the crate. The latter requires desensitization in slow, baby steps.

    Andrea Walters

    Quercus Basenjis

    NW Ohio

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  • nobarkusN

    The latter requires desensitization in slow, baby steps.

    That last sentence says it all. "slow, baby steps". Too fast and you overwhelm the dog. Everything is done on a gradient like training, a little each day.

    Buddy, Paolo and Dan

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  • senjiS

    @dash:

    Have you tried restricting her feed or at least feeding/watering when there is plenty of time to go potty before you leave?

    Increasing her exercise?

    Do you start to notice the nervousness when you are getting ready to leave?

    Was she fine in the beginning and then all of sudden she started messing the crate or did she always have accidents and you just weren't sure which one was doing it?

    Have you tried videotaping her when she is in her crate? I am guessing she probably pees and poops within 10 minutes after you leave.

    You mentioned that she freaks out when you are all outside together and wants back in the house. Is it possible that she was startled when whe went outside to potty and now does not want to go back out? That happened with my previous fosters.

    My daughter feeds them all in the am before school, then they all go out for potty time. If I even start to get ready to go some place I can't let Britty out, she won't come in. If I call her to come in she thinks I'm leaving and won't come in.

    I know she pees almost right away…sometimes before I am even out the door.

    She never wants to be outside whether we are out or not. The only time she stays out is when she thinks we are leaving.

    The baby steps of breaking the anxiety have been explained to me, I wish I had that kind of time. I don't leave for long periods of time but I leave often. My daughters are athletes, my 12 year old plays soccer and softball, my 8 year old ,plays soccer, does gymnastics and is in girl scouts. I help my parents a lot(my dad is having some health issues) I don't get a weekend off to spend trying to leave my house 100 times to get her over it. For that I am sorry.

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  • RedVelvetLynxR

    @basenji_fan:

    Try this starting this training method with her: http://www.basenjiforums.com/showthread.php?t=2055&highlight=NILIF

    Here's another good one from Tanza (about just placing yourself as the pack leader): http://www.tanzabasenjis.net/welladjusted.html

    Thanks - these are really good reads - I'm at this point with my carpet thread pulling female.

    Holly

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  • dashD

    @senji:

    My daughter feeds them all in the am before school, then they all go out for potty time. If I even start to get ready to go some place I can't let Britty out, she won't come in. If I call her to come in she thinks I'm leaving and won't come in.

    I know she pees almost right away…sometimes before I am even out the door.

    She never wants to be outside whether we are out or not. The only time she stays out is when she thinks we are leaving.

    The baby steps of breaking the anxiety have been explained to me, I wish I had that kind of time. I don't leave for long periods of time but I leave often. My daughters are athletes, my 12 year old plays soccer and softball, my 8 year old ,plays soccer, does gymnastics and is in girl scouts. I help my parents a lot(my dad is having some health issues) I don't get a weekend off to spend trying to leave my house 100 times to get her over it. For that I am sorry.

    I can feel your frustration and you seem to care for her but there is no "quick fix" for anxiety issues. In people or in dogs. Ask you daughters for help. If you parents are retired, maybe they can watch her while you leave. There are options. None of them will work in a day. If you feel there is no way you can continue with this girl, contact BRAT. They will help you. If you are coming here for us to tell you, she is impossible, give her up. That is unlikey. If you want to try and make it work, this is what I recommend.

    I think desensatizing her will help but she is clearly a nervous nelly. Because of the restrictions on your time to work with her, medication in the interim may be helpful. I have not seen the meds work but clearly some on here have. Maybe if you medicate her now while you are working with her it will take the edge off. Does that make any sense?

    To desensatize her, pretend several times a day that you are getting ready to leave. Do whatever you normally do when you are leaving. Then don't leave. You may start to get anxious when you are getting ready to go somewhere as well, since you are worried about what she will do, and she can feed off of that. Do not coddle her, pet her, talk to her anything. Once she settles and is calm, then praise.

    I would also look in to an ex-pen to keep her in when you have to leave. Dash would never tolerate a crate. He was ok in an x-pen for a while at least. He didn't soil in it anyway. The best situation would be to not leave, have someone watch her or take her with you.

    When you come home, you need to remain calm. Do not talk in a high pitched voice or immediately get upset becasue she messed.

    Good Luck.

    Jennifer

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  • senjiS

    I have been in contact with the BRAT coordinator that handled Gracie and Britty in Texas. She thinks it may be that Britty is jealous of the bond that formed between Gracie and Deke. This seems to fit. Britty was alpha now Deke is alpha and Britty is the bottom of the pack….even Gracie pushes her around. We are going to work together to try to figure this one out. She is going to talk to a breeder/behaviorist. I have no idea how I can change their interaction but we will see. If we need to find her a new home away from the other two I guess we will do that. We will have to wait and see what the answer is....I really want Britty to be happy and the people in the house as well.

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