@Saving thank you very much for the suggestions!
The nastyness has gone too far
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He was neutered after we found out after the Fanconi test. He is a carrier.
Yes we also have a female in the house but I don't think that is the reason. She will be going into heat in the first week of August. Chance has been exhibiting this type of behavior for quite sometime now.
If there is something wrong with his Thyroid, is it life threatening? Can it be controlled/cured?Well I have to say, sorry… just because he is a Carrier is no reason to run out an neuter.... but having an intact bitch in the house sure is.. if you are not interested in showing him/breeding him....
Thyroid is NOT life threatening... it is easily maintained with daily meds.. and not very expensive... (don't use the generic.... however..)... But not everything is linked to thyroid... it can... be a problem however.... but remember.. dogs will make instant choices about other dogs in their general area.... and because we are NOT dogs... you have no idea what those other dogs are telling him... regardless of what they seem....
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I agree Pat… no reason to neuter just because a dog is a Fanconi Carrier.
I am sure everyone would like to know about the health-testing behind him, so I'll take the liberty of posting it, as Chance's breeder:
http://www.offa.org/display.html?appnum=1292341#animal
His littermate's entry shows their dam's health info… as it was omitted from Chance's entry:
http://www.offa.org/display.html?appnum=1286206#animalI'd have been happy to help out the best that I could at any time there has been an issue with Chance, if given the opportunity. To learn about his issues here, from others, was rather hurtful as his breeder.
Chance was the mellowest of his litter, and I never would have pegged with having any territorial or behavioral issues.. another dog here or there yes, but not him.
I agree with Becky, he is in severe need of training. Even the adults that I bring into the house [we are talking 4-5 year old kennel dogs that are NOT house-wise] learn instantly that I am in charge, as is any other human that graces this earth… and they behave appropriately if they so desire to have house time [as opposed to crate or dog-run time].
Feel free to contact me via email or telephone [both are still the same and on my website] and I can do my best to help you with Chance at any time.
Thanks Becky for filling me in on Chance.
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Actully I have a puppy right now out of Carrirer. If you throw out all of the Carriers, we have very few dogs left & will back ourselves into another corner healthwise.
Having worked in the Vertrienary profession for over 20 years & most of that doing purchasing of products (which invloves comparing ingredients effect & cost effect) I have found little difference in generic Thyroid & Solixine. Except PRICE. Soloxine is 2-3 times more expensive than L-thyroid. We have used in on all kinds of problems from aggression to infertility. The only people who claim a real difference are the upper level obedience trainers. Most of whom have Golden Retreives & over 70% of them have thyroid issues. Use generic if you can. The problem is that if the thyroid comes back normal, most Vets won't script out Thyroid for a temperment problem.
Good Luck & Save money where you can.Becky & the Ninjas
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I just wanted to weigh in on this matter. Vanessa, I think it would be wise to read the book that Kim suggested, also "Fiesty Fido", by Patricia McConnell would be a good idea. I also think you may want to consider having a behaviorist come to the house, and give you some suggestions on how to control Chance's reactivity. But, I would suggest ONLY using a behaviorist who uses methods similar the those in the above mentioned books. Chance is behaving as a 'reactive dog'…which means he has turned a normal 'interested' response to other dogs into an over the top, habitual, reaction to other dogs. You can't correct this out of him, because his reaction is not at a rational, thinking level...you have to recondition him, and it will take very specific steps, and a considerable amount of time and effort...but it is definitely possible. I have had lots of clients with dogs who react exactly the same way, and they have successfully changed their dogs' behavior so that the dog is no longer reactive to the activities of other dogs in their lives.
That being said, I don't think that people should HAVE to consult their breeder about training issues. It would be nice, particularly if you are close to the breeder...but not everybody agrees with their breeder's training methods, and not all breeders have any experience with behavioral training. Chance's behavior problems are not based in bad temperament..they are most likely a learned and practiced response to being over stimulated....not really an obedience problem....but something that can be changed with specific training.
As breeders we need to give people MORE than 'teach your dog who is in charge, or get control of your dog.' That means so many different things to different people and isn't very instructive.
Off my soapbox
Oh...and Vanessa....just because you THINK she won't come in until August doesn't mean that is for sure. Chance definitely could be overreacting because she is coming in. The dogs' behavior usually starts to change several weeks before humans can detect estrous is beginning
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..they are most likely a learned and practiced response to being over stimulated….not really an obedience problem....but something that can be changed with specific training.
Just curious, is the growling at someone who is trying to move him on furniture an obedience/lack of training/lack of respect problem…he thinks the furniture is his because he has had his way? Or is it one in the same...just a practiced and learned behaviour. I'm confused.
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Oh, yea, well anything Dr McConnell wrote is worth reading - twice. I've also enjoyed and learned lots watching Brenda Aloff's dvd, but I don't have her book.
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Actully I have a puppy right now out of Carrirer. If you throw out all of the Carriers, we have very few dogs left & will back ourselves into another corner healthwise.
Having worked in the Vertrienary profession for over 20 years & most of that doing purchasing of products (which invloves comparing ingredients effect & cost effect) I have found little difference in generic Thyroid & Solixine. Except PRICE. Soloxine is 2-3 times more expensive than L-thyroid. We have used in on all kinds of problems from aggression to infertility. The only people who claim a real difference are the upper level obedience trainers. Most of whom have Golden Retreives & over 70% of them have thyroid issues. Use generic if you can. The problem is that if the thyroid comes back normal, most Vets won't script out Thyroid for a temperment problem.
Good Luck & Save money where you can.Becky & the Ninjas
I will respectfully disagree about no difference in generic Thyroid and Solixine… I have had 3 B's on Soloxine and all 3 started out on Generic, it did totally nothing for them... it didn't even raise their thyroid levels .1.... changed non generic and within a week, totally difference. One of OJ's problems with his low thyroid (started at age 14) was hives... the generic did nothing, within one day of changing to the real stuff, they were totally gone. And I tried more then once putting him back on the generic... hives within 2 days... You can get the scrip from your Vet (in California it is the law that they have to give it to you if you ask, you do not need to buy from them) and shop around on line for the best price. Just watch out for the exp. dates.
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And I agree about her coming in season… as I remember, Kobey was pretty darn interested in her at Chief Solano shows, way more then I would have thought at that time.... Remember, they don't always read the same books we do.... ggggg
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You can get Soloxine on line from Foster and Smith cheap. Shipping is free.
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/shop.cfm?c=9547&ref=4612&subref=AA&cmpid=E--PHARM--51209RX-_-P1 -
One of OJ's problems with his low thyroid (started at age 14) was hives… the generic did nothing, within one day of changing to the real stuff, they were totally gone. And I tried more then once putting him back on the generic... hives within 2 days...
Many times thyroid medicine coatings are made with wheat. Did OJ have a wheat allergy?
I would agree with you about there being a difference between generic and name brand thryoid meds. While I've never had a dog on thyroid medicine, I am on thyroid meds. The first thing my endocrinologist said when I went on thyroid meds was "never use generic" (he was adamant) and he writes his scripts that way "cannot be substituted". He explained that with generic it is not the same medication every time you get it refilled. Also, anytime you change a type of thyroid med you are supposed to have a new blood draw done…so effectively with generic it would mean everytime you refill (every 6 weeks is usually for a blood draw on thryoid while working to get dosage correct).
It would stand to reason that it would be the same for animals...especially as I'm sure the science is better on humans.
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No, OJ had no allergies… at least not that we knew of... anything of course is possible...
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Let me clarify…
Chance was not neutered because he is a carrier. He was neutered because we plan on breeding our bitch at a later date and we have no intention on breeding him.
Becky, I don’t feel I need to contact the breeder over every little training issue that arises. Chance has gone to obedience training and we work with him daily and have seen a behaviorist. As for shoving a pill down his throat and not dealing with the issues at hand is something I am well aware of. That is why I am asking questions on this forum. What I was not aware of was that the fact that aggression could be due to a thyroid issue and I was just given this information yesterday which I intend on following through on and getting his blood work done.
I created this forum to talk about issues in the open to allow people to come together and offer advice/support. In no way this should be the only resource to find answers, contacting your breeder is the right thing to do. I had no malice. Kathy Britton knows that I will contact her if there is a problem. She has always offered help when I need it and has always made herself available and given us whatever we needed which we are grateful for.
As for allowing my dogs on furniture, everyone has a difference of opinion on training methods and in our house, our dogs are allowed on furniture when we say it is ok. Certain furniture is off limits and they know that.
As we are slowly trying to weed out what is going on with our boy, I am learning that many things could be causing this. Yes maybe Kiya our female is going into heat early. If that is the case than we will have to deal with that. It is difficult since Chance’s aggression started sometime ago. This did not just develop over night. Unfortunately we ignored the beginning signs and let it go thinking it was nothing. Now it has become more noticeable, we need to deal with this immediately. Hopefully it is something that we can diagnose quickly and resolve.
We appreciate all the information everyone on the forum has given us. Yes I admit that we should of paid attention to the warning signs earlier and nipped it in the bud sometime ago. You never think that the little things will add up to something bigger in the end. Chance's attitude has changed a little and we need to work even harder at getting him back to the cool cucumber he was before
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Just curious, is the growling at someone who is trying to move him on furniture an obedience/lack of training/lack of respect problem…he thinks the furniture is his because he has had his way? Or is it one in the same...just a practiced and learned behaviour. I'm confused.
I went back and re-read the original post *after I posted…figures.....But, no, the resource guarding (in this case, his spot) probably isn't a habitual behavior. I was responding only to the reactive behavior upon seeing other dogs. The resource guarding towards humans could be a lack of respect if it occurs frequently or predictably, or just an 'I am not feeling well issue' if it occurs very rarely. And if it the guarding is limited to a couch or bed can be solved with simple training to get off furniture when asked, and only come up when asked.
And, yes, as a breeder I would want to be notified if the dog bit someone, particularly if it broke the skin.
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We sure do want to support you and will be very interested in the blood work results.
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Let me clarify…
Chance was not neutered because he is a carrier. He was neutered because we plan on breeding our bitch at a later date and we have no intention on breeding him.
Becky, I don?t feel I need to contact the breeder over every little training issue that arises. Chance has gone to obedience training and we work with him daily and have seen a behaviorist. As for shoving a pill down his throat and not dealing with the issues at hand is something I am well aware of. That is why I am asking questions on this forum. What I was not aware of was that the fact that aggression could be due to a thyroid issue and I was just given this information yesterday which I intend on following through on and getting his blood work done.
I created this forum to talk about issues in the open to allow people to come together and offer advice/support. In no way this should be the only resource to find answers, contacting your breeder is the right thing to do. I had no malice. Kathy Britton knows that I will contact her if there is a problem. She has always offered help when I need it and has always made herself available and given us whatever we needed which we are grateful for.
As for allowing my dogs on furniture, everyone has a difference of opinion on training methods and in our house, our dogs are allowed on furniture when we say it is ok. Certain furniture is off limits and they know that.
As we are slowly trying to weed out what is going on with our boy, I am learning that many things could be causing this. Yes maybe Kiya our female is going into heat early. If that is the case than we will have to deal with that. It is difficult since Chance?s aggression started sometime ago. This did not just develop over night. Unfortunately we ignored the beginning signs and let it go thinking it was nothing. Now it has become more noticeable, we need to deal with this immediately. Hopefully it is something that we can diagnose quickly and resolve.
We appreciate all the information everyone on the forum has given us. Yes I admit that we should of paid attention to the warning signs earlier and nipped it in the bud sometime ago. You never think that the little things will add up to something bigger in the end. Chance's attitude has changed a little and we need to work even harder at getting him back to the cool cucumber he was before
Vanessa,
It is hard to know what the right thing to do is in these circumstances…and even if you know what to do, we sometimes get caught up in the details when is happening in our house, and can't see the forest for the trees, ya know?
Don't blame yourself.
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Exactly Andrea.. it is pretty darn easy to ignore the signs and think… "Oh it was not that bad" or "he/she will stop when he/she gets to be xxxx age"... or worse "wasn't that cute".... What many of us have learned is that is never the case... it only gets worse, as they advantage every day.. and most times it is such a small thing.. that you totally miss it until it becomes a "huge" problem... so thing to do now is forget the past and address the problem as it exists today... and just move forward.... Will never help to beat yourself up as you can never go back and change what has already happened...
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I think everyone has would have's, could have's and should have's in their training. I have a dog with 28 or 30 titles to his name (Digital the brindlewonderkid, the one in my avatar), and YES there are things I wish I'd done differently. But, that means I'm learning and progressing. I really wish CU had been around when I was training Jet the tri-ing. <shrug>All anyone can do is learn and move forward. Don't dwell on the bad things; and certainly don't beat yourself up about things. We're always in training for our next dog.</shrug>
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Well put. If we were perfect wouldn't if feel pretty pointless living? Meaning we live to learn right? I feel IMO that you do the best you can and if need be you take a step back and see what needs to be corrected. Maybe nothing is wrong nor needs correction or maybe several things needs to be reevaluated. Don't beat yourself up, now look ahead and have steadfast determination.
Basenjimamma
