@Saving thank you very much for the suggestions!
The nastyness has gone too far
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Oh yes, it can be controlled easily. He'll be put on thyroid pills which are cheap. He'll take them 2x daily. I had mine on them.
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Vanessa,
The thyroid problem in dogs is actually pretty common and very "easy" to deal with. I would definitely go and have some bloodwork done, to either diagnose or rule out the thyroid bieng the problem. We had a dog, Lou (not a B, a mutt)who within the last few months gained a lot of weight(20lbs to be exact) and he also went from a real loveable guy to an agressive, unstable and not pleasent dog to be around. Lou also ended up having a brain tumor and two weeks ago we decided to let him go to sleep. Before this happened he was put on a drug to help with his thyroid(I can't think of the name right now) and he within a few weeks changed somewhat back to his normal loving ways. I think if we would have had a chance to have him on the drugs longer he would have made a 100% turn around. He is in heaven now playing with his buddy, Bogus our Westie that past away a month ago. It has been a rough month and a half. But back to Chance, if it is thyroid, rest assured there are drugs that will make him feel like normal again, and he should live his life as if nothing is wrong.
I will keep him and you in my thoughts as the next few weeks might be filled with lots of questions and concerns.Basenjimamma
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Is Chance a rescue? If not, I would ask the breeder if low thyroid runs in his family. If your vet tells you that it cannot be a thyroid problem at that age, tell him/her that in Basenjis it is fairly common. In the past couple of years I have had three dogs under the age of 3 with low thyroid. Most people have the test done by either Dr. Dodds in CA or MSU-Michigan State University.
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I took a fellow B forum members advice and will be having blood sent to Dr. Dodds for a full panel done. Looks like Dr. Dodds knows her stuff.
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Get his thyroid tested.
Do not move him; ask him to move and reward for complying
Get the Control Unleashed book and/or dvd. Pay careful attention to the "Look At That" game.
Find a good positive relationship or obedience class or better yet a control unleashed class.
(I've taught several CU classes (sort of fell into it) and people are always amazed at how far their dog can go in a matter of weeks. If you have questions, just holler and i'll try to help where i can)
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Has he had any basic obedience training?
If not, get him started on that asap.
Also, he needs to earn to get…that is, he has to sit to go for a walk, sit before he can get up on the couch, sit before he gets his food.
Make him earn nice things.
The obedience training will help you both. -
Ok so the Thyroid issue has been covered, yes get it checked. Thyroid supplement will not solve a training problem. You can't just throw a pill at a dog YOU have let take control of YOUR house.
I work for a Vet, I have Basenjis, I title my dogs in many venues.
Besides putting Conformation, Obedience, Rally, Lure Coursing, & Advanced Agility Titles on my Basenjis, I teach Agility & obedience at my local Club. I also advise a 4H group in Obedience & Rally.
I have a couple of questions.
Remember what I ask is out of love for all Basenjis & is not personal. i would ask the sam of any of my students.#1 Have you contacted the breeder? Didn't Chance come from Kathy Britton? I can't believe she has not offered to help. My advice to any Basenji owner is CALL YOUR BREEDER for help. I am so happy that my puppy buyers respect me enoungh to call me before a problem get out of hand & they go on a public forum.
2 How did Chance do in his obedience classes? Did he ever go to Obedience Classes?
3 Why is he allowed on the furniture? He has NO respect for you & is owning the furniture. This is a basic principle of respect. Your dog has to earn the right to be on the furniture. At this point your dog needs to earn everything he gets.
4 Is he crate trained?
5 Again have you called your breeder? Are there Thyroid issuses with the parents?
6 Have you tried a Gentle Leader? Go to their website I have seen amazing results with a Gentle Leader.
Best of luck. Please find a good trainer who understands Basenjis. Work hard with that trainer & don't make excuses for your or your dog's lack of training.
I wish you the best.Becky & the Ninjas
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This is a wonderful breed we have, but you have to do the work to make them the right dogs for your family.
I also, think contacting the breeder is the way to go. If its Kathy, she will be wanting to give you all the help you need.
We so want you to have a b you can live with. -
He was neutered after we found out after the Fanconi test. He is a carrier.
Yes we also have a female in the house but I don't think that is the reason. She will be going into heat in the first week of August. Chance has been exhibiting this type of behavior for quite sometime now.
If there is something wrong with his Thyroid, is it life threatening? Can it be controlled/cured?Well I have to say, sorry… just because he is a Carrier is no reason to run out an neuter.... but having an intact bitch in the house sure is.. if you are not interested in showing him/breeding him....
Thyroid is NOT life threatening... it is easily maintained with daily meds.. and not very expensive... (don't use the generic.... however..)... But not everything is linked to thyroid... it can... be a problem however.... but remember.. dogs will make instant choices about other dogs in their general area.... and because we are NOT dogs... you have no idea what those other dogs are telling him... regardless of what they seem....
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I agree Pat… no reason to neuter just because a dog is a Fanconi Carrier.
I am sure everyone would like to know about the health-testing behind him, so I'll take the liberty of posting it, as Chance's breeder:
http://www.offa.org/display.html?appnum=1292341#animal
His littermate's entry shows their dam's health info… as it was omitted from Chance's entry:
http://www.offa.org/display.html?appnum=1286206#animalI'd have been happy to help out the best that I could at any time there has been an issue with Chance, if given the opportunity. To learn about his issues here, from others, was rather hurtful as his breeder.
Chance was the mellowest of his litter, and I never would have pegged with having any territorial or behavioral issues.. another dog here or there yes, but not him.
I agree with Becky, he is in severe need of training. Even the adults that I bring into the house [we are talking 4-5 year old kennel dogs that are NOT house-wise] learn instantly that I am in charge, as is any other human that graces this earth… and they behave appropriately if they so desire to have house time [as opposed to crate or dog-run time].
Feel free to contact me via email or telephone [both are still the same and on my website] and I can do my best to help you with Chance at any time.
Thanks Becky for filling me in on Chance.
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Actully I have a puppy right now out of Carrirer. If you throw out all of the Carriers, we have very few dogs left & will back ourselves into another corner healthwise.
Having worked in the Vertrienary profession for over 20 years & most of that doing purchasing of products (which invloves comparing ingredients effect & cost effect) I have found little difference in generic Thyroid & Solixine. Except PRICE. Soloxine is 2-3 times more expensive than L-thyroid. We have used in on all kinds of problems from aggression to infertility. The only people who claim a real difference are the upper level obedience trainers. Most of whom have Golden Retreives & over 70% of them have thyroid issues. Use generic if you can. The problem is that if the thyroid comes back normal, most Vets won't script out Thyroid for a temperment problem.
Good Luck & Save money where you can.Becky & the Ninjas
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I just wanted to weigh in on this matter. Vanessa, I think it would be wise to read the book that Kim suggested, also "Fiesty Fido", by Patricia McConnell would be a good idea. I also think you may want to consider having a behaviorist come to the house, and give you some suggestions on how to control Chance's reactivity. But, I would suggest ONLY using a behaviorist who uses methods similar the those in the above mentioned books. Chance is behaving as a 'reactive dog'…which means he has turned a normal 'interested' response to other dogs into an over the top, habitual, reaction to other dogs. You can't correct this out of him, because his reaction is not at a rational, thinking level...you have to recondition him, and it will take very specific steps, and a considerable amount of time and effort...but it is definitely possible. I have had lots of clients with dogs who react exactly the same way, and they have successfully changed their dogs' behavior so that the dog is no longer reactive to the activities of other dogs in their lives.
That being said, I don't think that people should HAVE to consult their breeder about training issues. It would be nice, particularly if you are close to the breeder...but not everybody agrees with their breeder's training methods, and not all breeders have any experience with behavioral training. Chance's behavior problems are not based in bad temperament..they are most likely a learned and practiced response to being over stimulated....not really an obedience problem....but something that can be changed with specific training.
As breeders we need to give people MORE than 'teach your dog who is in charge, or get control of your dog.' That means so many different things to different people and isn't very instructive.
Off my soapbox
Oh...and Vanessa....just because you THINK she won't come in until August doesn't mean that is for sure. Chance definitely could be overreacting because she is coming in. The dogs' behavior usually starts to change several weeks before humans can detect estrous is beginning
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..they are most likely a learned and practiced response to being over stimulated….not really an obedience problem....but something that can be changed with specific training.
Just curious, is the growling at someone who is trying to move him on furniture an obedience/lack of training/lack of respect problem…he thinks the furniture is his because he has had his way? Or is it one in the same...just a practiced and learned behaviour. I'm confused.
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Oh, yea, well anything Dr McConnell wrote is worth reading - twice. I've also enjoyed and learned lots watching Brenda Aloff's dvd, but I don't have her book.
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Actully I have a puppy right now out of Carrirer. If you throw out all of the Carriers, we have very few dogs left & will back ourselves into another corner healthwise.
Having worked in the Vertrienary profession for over 20 years & most of that doing purchasing of products (which invloves comparing ingredients effect & cost effect) I have found little difference in generic Thyroid & Solixine. Except PRICE. Soloxine is 2-3 times more expensive than L-thyroid. We have used in on all kinds of problems from aggression to infertility. The only people who claim a real difference are the upper level obedience trainers. Most of whom have Golden Retreives & over 70% of them have thyroid issues. Use generic if you can. The problem is that if the thyroid comes back normal, most Vets won't script out Thyroid for a temperment problem.
Good Luck & Save money where you can.Becky & the Ninjas
I will respectfully disagree about no difference in generic Thyroid and Solixine… I have had 3 B's on Soloxine and all 3 started out on Generic, it did totally nothing for them... it didn't even raise their thyroid levels .1.... changed non generic and within a week, totally difference. One of OJ's problems with his low thyroid (started at age 14) was hives... the generic did nothing, within one day of changing to the real stuff, they were totally gone. And I tried more then once putting him back on the generic... hives within 2 days... You can get the scrip from your Vet (in California it is the law that they have to give it to you if you ask, you do not need to buy from them) and shop around on line for the best price. Just watch out for the exp. dates.
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And I agree about her coming in season… as I remember, Kobey was pretty darn interested in her at Chief Solano shows, way more then I would have thought at that time.... Remember, they don't always read the same books we do.... ggggg
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You can get Soloxine on line from Foster and Smith cheap. Shipping is free.
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/shop.cfm?c=9547&ref=4612&subref=AA&cmpid=E--PHARM--51209RX-_-P1 -
One of OJ's problems with his low thyroid (started at age 14) was hives… the generic did nothing, within one day of changing to the real stuff, they were totally gone. And I tried more then once putting him back on the generic... hives within 2 days...
Many times thyroid medicine coatings are made with wheat. Did OJ have a wheat allergy?
I would agree with you about there being a difference between generic and name brand thryoid meds. While I've never had a dog on thyroid medicine, I am on thyroid meds. The first thing my endocrinologist said when I went on thyroid meds was "never use generic" (he was adamant) and he writes his scripts that way "cannot be substituted". He explained that with generic it is not the same medication every time you get it refilled. Also, anytime you change a type of thyroid med you are supposed to have a new blood draw done…so effectively with generic it would mean everytime you refill (every 6 weeks is usually for a blood draw on thryoid while working to get dosage correct).
It would stand to reason that it would be the same for animals...especially as I'm sure the science is better on humans.
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No, OJ had no allergies… at least not that we knew of... anything of course is possible...
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Let me clarify…
Chance was not neutered because he is a carrier. He was neutered because we plan on breeding our bitch at a later date and we have no intention on breeding him.
Becky, I don’t feel I need to contact the breeder over every little training issue that arises. Chance has gone to obedience training and we work with him daily and have seen a behaviorist. As for shoving a pill down his throat and not dealing with the issues at hand is something I am well aware of. That is why I am asking questions on this forum. What I was not aware of was that the fact that aggression could be due to a thyroid issue and I was just given this information yesterday which I intend on following through on and getting his blood work done.
I created this forum to talk about issues in the open to allow people to come together and offer advice/support. In no way this should be the only resource to find answers, contacting your breeder is the right thing to do. I had no malice. Kathy Britton knows that I will contact her if there is a problem. She has always offered help when I need it and has always made herself available and given us whatever we needed which we are grateful for.
As for allowing my dogs on furniture, everyone has a difference of opinion on training methods and in our house, our dogs are allowed on furniture when we say it is ok. Certain furniture is off limits and they know that.
As we are slowly trying to weed out what is going on with our boy, I am learning that many things could be causing this. Yes maybe Kiya our female is going into heat early. If that is the case than we will have to deal with that. It is difficult since Chance’s aggression started sometime ago. This did not just develop over night. Unfortunately we ignored the beginning signs and let it go thinking it was nothing. Now it has become more noticeable, we need to deal with this immediately. Hopefully it is something that we can diagnose quickly and resolve.
We appreciate all the information everyone on the forum has given us. Yes I admit that we should of paid attention to the warning signs earlier and nipped it in the bud sometime ago. You never think that the little things will add up to something bigger in the end. Chance's attitude has changed a little and we need to work even harder at getting him back to the cool cucumber he was before
