I would say it is better to consult and get the proper guidance from a Vetenary doctor about the diet of the puppy with regular intervals, otherwise the diseases may evolve during certain intervals and that may lead to the death of your puppy. lewis diet book"
Raw Feeding?
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Thanks, please send me links
And yes, I'll go for 2nd opinion on Monday…but here is hard to find one who is familiar with Basenji beed :S
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If you feed raw with the correct proportion of bone (i.e., not just meat, but also bone and organs), you should still be giving your dog the appropriate amount of calcium. When my dogs get raw (we don't do raw for every meal, but about 30-50% of their diet is raw), they always get pieces with bone. And sometimes I cook meals for them too, but I've learned that they need added calcium in the form of powdered bone meal (something like this) or egg shells crushed and ground with a mortar and pestle.
I have yet to hear of a raw-fed dog that's had to go to the vet for an operation because of splintered bones in their stomach. I've heard of dogs that have chipped their teeth on bone, probably because they were being fed inappropriate pieces (i.e., weight-bearing bones). But cooked bones are the concern, not raw bones.
I am not an expert on raw feeding by any means, but this is what has worked for us.
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Exactly, cooked bone are a problem, raw are not. While as with everything, things can happen, but it would be very rare in my opinion that you would have splintered bones, that is what happens with cooked bones.
As far as the umbilical hernia goes, again, very rare that it needs to be "fixed" immediately. I would suggest if you are going to go back to the same Vet that you arm yourself with material about Basenjis and umbilical herinas. I would venture to guess that at least 75% have them in various sizes.
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@curlytails - yes, I now all about correct proportion RMBs, meat, organs, eggs, and supplements…I really have educated myself about all of this. But this Vet really upset me...she tried to explain to me how a dog wasn't suppose eat raw :S, how I'm risking her life. How dog that live in apartment are different metabolism from ones that live on village ?!? That dog are not supposed to eat meat! That dog are all eater like pigs!! :mad:
I know that everything can happen but I also know that raw bones aren't dangerous, only cooked ones. But I couldn't explain that to this Vet
As far as umbilical hernia goes I also know that is very rare that it needs to be "fixed" immediately"
but she happens to cough me unprepared...she really frighten me. Awwww, I'm really mad at her
But I will go to another vet that has educated in USA and hopefully he will know about Basenjis little bit more, so I will see what he will tell me. Breeder was all friendly about it. He told me to massage her and that it should go away -
Trust all of us here…. even ones educated in the US do not know that it is a common thing in Basenjis...
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And by the way, that is a problem with many Vets, in Vet School as I understand it, they are given maybe if lucky one day about food and feeding… so no surprise that they are really not that educated in different ways of feeding.... Many Vets still don't know how many have allergies to grains, especially corn....
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Nikol, frankly, if your vet is that completely opposed to raw feeding, I would find another vet. But that's my opinion.
Not every vet in the US is open to raw feeding either. In fact, my previous vet was downright dismissive of it. That was one of many reasons that I decided to leave that vet and seek out another practice that was more open to different feeding regimens, including home-cooked recipes. My previous vet basically disregarded raw feeding as "trendy" nonsense, without considering that his attitude was basically putting me down, too. My current vet is not vocal about promoting a raw diet, but at least they will talk frankly about it and not discourage me. Instead of saying "No, that's no use, you're better off with one of our prescription diets" (previous vet), they'll say "Okay, but make sure you stick to X, Y, Z parts, and be careful with disinfecting any surfaces that come in contact with the raw meat." Fair enough.
I do think that raw feeding is getting more attention these days, but it's not just "fashionable," it's a matter of pet owners having more access to information about how things used to be done, and how a lot of people have long been feeding their pets, especially before commercial pet food. And that's not going to go away. It's bad business practice for vets to not be open to at least discussing the pros and cons of raw feeding (and yes, there are both), as opposed to just saying "It's bad, you shouldn't do it."
Since that was my previous vet's attitude about raw feeding, I started to wonder what else they were not up-to-date and fully informed about. I don't know about the umbilical hernia, but it sounds like you're being conscientious and doing your research, so just be confident in that.
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Curltails, good post…. and I agree... Vets need to be open and the need to listen to clients. Not everyone is up to date about advances in health for pets, some are very much old School... but we are the pet owner, we live with them every day... if we are giving feedback, they need to listen. That said, there are very many, too many that do not "notice" their pets needs or problems until it is really serious... IMO, no different then your human children. You need to be aware of changes or problems and you need to be open to different opinions. In many cases there is no right or wrong.. but usually there is a middle ground.
Again about Umbical Herinas in Basenjis, totally common and usually never a problem.
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I don't feed my dogs raw right now..I've gotten lazy so grain free kibble has been it..but we are wanting to dive back in…that being said...none of the vets I've seen over the last 14 yrs have been keen on raw diets..I think..one of the main reasons is because if you do it right, make sure your pet gets all their nutrients..it will make them healthier..thus you don't visit the vet very often, so the vet "looses" a customer..
I also think it has something to do with the lack of knowledge, they are not taught enough or at all about it. Thirdly, many of the large food companies give kick backs to the vets..so of course they want to promote kibble right?
One of the vets I saw had a female partner..she loved the RAW diet and promoted it/supported my choice, but she did it under the table as her partner did not like it..it was like she was afraid to promote it openly.
Get yourself a good book on it..I recommend "Natural Nutrition for Dogs and Cats", by Kymythy Schultze. or one of Dr Pitcairns books. There are also several websites with tons of info..
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/RawFedBasenjis/ is a yahoo group as well as http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/My dogs favorite RAW staples are/were chicken backs, turkey necks, lamb femures, marrowbones( but only for recreational chewing as they are hard)
I did add very little veggies to my dogs diet, we are talking about 1-2 tablespoons of veggies chopped finely a day..so tiny amounts..like what could be found in prey's stomach..I wish you best of luck and know this…we will be here should you have questions..
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Thank you all soooo much! You are so kind and I'm happy that I have your help
I already read and I have these two books:Raw and Natural Nutrition for Dogs: The Definitive Guide to Homemade Meals - Lew Olson
Raw Dog Food: Make It Easy for You and Your Dog Raw Dog Food - Carina Beth MacdonaldFrom first one a learned a lot.
So, I will go to another Vet and hope that I would be lucky enough to find it better then previous
If not I will keep on searching
For Umbical Herina I hope that this shouldn't be a problem; I massage her often and after that she is gone…
Today I add her some raw turkey and she loved it She haven't be crazy about her food since she came; I didn't change anything. She been fed by the same kibble from kennel but she never ate everything
She likes yogurt though.I suppose that I need to grind chicken backs and necks till she grows up? Or is it good enough just to chop in smaller pieces?
Also she don't have full black nose yet...some breeders told me that this is common and should soon fill with black
What do you think?
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If you can massage the hernia and it disappears, you should not have a problem, at least not in my opinion.
Many of the people that feed raw do not grind necks or backs, you would be surprised how well they can eat them.
It will take a while but most of the white on the nose will go black. You may wind up with a spot or two of white, but not much
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Raw and Natural Nutrition for Dogs: The Definitive Guide to Homemade Meals - Lew Olson
She lives here in my hometown..and she is a big part of this yahoo group..maybe you can become a member…
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/HoustonRawFeeders/ -
…everything I've read seems to say one shouldn't mix kibble and raw, especially in the same feeding
In Dr. Pitcairn's Complete Guide to Natural Health for Dogs & Cats, there is a recipe for "Fresh Meat Supplement for Dog Kibble." If there was a problem combining raw and kibble in the same meal, I doubt this recipe would be in the book.
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I have also heard not to mix kibble and raw meat in the same meal as they digest at different rates, but rather do a kibble meal in the am (or pm) and then a raw meal at the other time..so the food scan digest at its proper times..and not cause gas, stomach upste or whatnot..but if your dog can handle the two together, why worry, right?
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I dont believe there is a problem with mixing raw and kibble. Humans eat raw and cooked food together all the time. Raw vegetables with cooked meat. Rare steak with cooked rice and vegetables. Sushi, has raw fish and cooked rice.. Different foods are digested at different times anyways , raw or cooked and still we eat them together!! I really dont see an issue. and from experience with canines.. Ayo eats mixed raw ground beef with kibble and has had no problems.
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I know americans are very concerned with raw foods and things like that, and pasteurized cheese and all, but in the rest of the world, we eat a lot of raw meat, and dairy products etcc.. and its not a problem, why would it be a problem for dogs, who sniff each others…., who eat cat poo, sometimes, .. the bacteria in human grade ground beef,for example, does nothing to us humans who eat steak tartar, its not going to hurt your dog. I wouldnt feed any raw chicken though,but i wouldnt eat that either!!
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The don't mix is one of those things that drive me nuts. No foundation, period. Those who approve of raw rant about the closed minded comments made by anti-raw feeders, then we come up with things like that. I don't feed both at once because, well it's either a raw meal or not. But I doubt seriously there is any legitimacy to the rest. And for once, I don't care enough to research if anything new has come up but I doubt it. So if you feed the dogs raw and your partner then feeds them kibble, don't stress it.
I once saved a list, over about 4 yrs time, of contradictory and bizarre Lew Olsen mantras. She has now very much solidified her beliefs but I'll stick with veterinary nutritionists that aren't pushing products and making unconfirmed and often outrageous theories stated as facts.
Lest anyone think I have nothing positive to say, she is a good judge.
I don't know anyone who has accused her of political judging and while in any show you may disagree with a judge, her choices are her own preferences based on standards, not friends as far as anything I have seen. And in a snarky owner breed like Rotties, that is saying a LOT. Links:
http://www.barfworld.com/on safety… disclosure... this is a friend, a very trusted friend who is into holistic. Add her to your resources. She researches thoroughly, had contacts with top specialists in the fields of all things dog, and if it is theory, she says so. If fact, she supports them
http://www.caberfeidh.com/Safe.htmThe top 50 most frequently asked questions… barf for beginners
http://www.njboxers.com/faqs.htmCalcium/Phosphor calculator (not going to lie, never used it, even when I fed all raw, was too much work)
http://home.deds.nl/~sham/nutrient/Raw diet for dogs (nice article)
http://www.the-happy-dog-spot.com/raw-diet-for-dogs.htmlWendy Volhard is another good resource
http://www.westielovers.com/westieworld/onlynatural.html
http://www.volhard.com/pages/wendy-volhards-homemade-dog-food.phpPat McKay is another one
http://animalhomeopathy.org.tripod.com/www.animalhomeopathy.org/id19.htmlDr Tom Lonsdale and Raw Meaty Bones
http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=432728044221 -
I can only attest to what I experience myself..I am not a dog but I am on the RAW diet..I don't eat raw meat, eggs or dairy, only veggies, fruit and sprouts..if consumed by itself it is fine, but once you put other food with it your intestine will have a hard time dealing with the veggies/fruits because they stick around in your intestines longer (because the meats and such take much longer to pass your stomach and intestines= most fruits take 30 min. bananas 45 min, meats 6 hours or more to leave your stomach into the intestines..so if you eat fruit or a salad with your dinner as supposed to before your meal..it will all ferment and can cause very uncomfortable bloating and such..just a small FYI) than needed, thus fermenting, causing gas/stomach upset or the like. I see the RAW diet vs kibble in the same light..mine gets theirs either or..not mixed..but to each their own.
It isn't like a dog could complain of gas..you might see it on them or you might not..but why subject them to it if you don't have to..why not seperate the meals..why does it have to be consumed together? Just wondering..DMEY..in Europe eggs are kept in the store outside of refrigeration..not here in the states..WHY? Because our eggs here are about 45 days old by the time they meet their consumers..as supposed to in Europe where they are fresher from the farm (at least in Sweden). There are also several delicacys in Europe that use raw meats, like Steak tartare..I would not consume meat from US raw..Human grade ground beef here is almost a guarantee to salmonella or e.Coli..if consumed undercooked..
Shoot, you can not even buy spinach or tomatoes here without wondering if you've gotten salmonella contaminated foods..so FDA all in its glory..lots need to be done for the food safety..And contrary to popular belief…raw chicken is not harmful to dogs..it is cooked chicken bones that can splinter and hurt them not raw..they are highly flexible and easily consumed by even toy breeds or other small dogs and cats.
But this subject is like anything else..very divided and everybody has a different opinion..this is mine.
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WHY? Because our eggs here are about 45 days old by the time they meet their consumers..as supposed to in Europe where they are fresher from the farm (at least in Sweden).
Europe that use raw meats, like Steak tartare..I would not consume meat from US raw..Human grade ground beef her e is almost a guarantee to salmonella or e.Coli..if consumed undercooked..
I am not sure where you got your egg info, but I checked 3 sites, including the American Egg board and others… often eggs go from farms to shipping the same day they are laid. Even the worse shippers are a few days from laying/factor/sorting/packaging to truck. Really kewl video on egg processing.
http://www.aeb.org/egg-industry/egg-facts-101That said, I love fresh farm eggs. When I was a kid I thought my grandmother's chicken's eggs were REAL and the store ones fake. In a way, I was right.
As for Europe, I agree that often their meats are better, but that is a fallacy that they don't have serious issues.
http://www.themeatsite.com/meatnews/12130/pork-sausage-cause-of-salmonella-outbreak
And with 60 percent of European flocks having salmonella… not the clean image you portray:
http://www.dddmag.com/news-Vaccines-May-Be-Key-to-Fewer-Salmonella-Outbreaks-82510.aspxThe vaccines aren't required in the U.S., although in Great Britain, officials say vaccinations have given them the safest egg supply in Europe. A survey conducted by the European food safety agency in 2009 found about 1 percent of British flocks had salmonella compared to about 60 to 70 percent of flocks elsewhere in Europe, said Amanda Cryer, spokeswoman for the British Egg Information Service.
E coli in Sweden on sugar snaps
http://barfblog.foodsafety.ksu.edu/blog/138768/09/07/16/shigella-e-coli-sugar-snaps-swedene coli in sweden meat
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1746-6148/6/7Several cases of human infection caused by verotoxin-producing Escherichia coli (VTEC) O157:H7 in Sweden have been connected with cattle farm visits. Between 1996 and 2002, 18 farms were classified as the source of human cases with isolation of EHEC (Enterohaemorrhagic Escherichia coli) after VTEC O157:H7 had been isolated from cattle on those farms.
I used to believe the hype that European foods so much cleaner, til my friend from Germany called me impressively naive and told me to research… said yeah they eat a lot of raw stuff and a lot of people get sick, just didn't track it as well as we do here. So I began to look, and she was right. We are a huge country, so the NUMBERS look much worse. But when you compare percentages of what we produce, our country really is doing as good of a job as most countries in providing safe food.
Now, want to talk about food preparations, we suck. LOL. Oh do I miss French restaurants. And Swiss. Sigh.
As for the rest, not going to research but if you can find me some that proves your point on mixing foods, let me know. Would like to read it. I just recall all the bunk before on OMG don't mix this with that and it was all pretty much debunked by major research universities.
http://healthinmotion.wordpress.com/2007/12/23/facts-and-fears-about-the-food-combining-myth/
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Like I said..this what I know..thus my opinion…I have never been told while living in Sweden for 19+yrs nor while visiting the other 20..not to eat raw cookie dough or orange julius or anything containing raw eggs, while here it is stated on every single thing that includes unpast. eggs...do not eat raw...it is known fact that eggs 6 weeks or younger does not need to be refrigerated yet ours here in the states are, why? Because electri,ity is abundant and so cheap?...baloney...I don't believe you can compare egg factories here with egg farms in Sweden. There are huge differences in how animals are allowed to be treated from country to country.. Yes all countries have issues, we have tons more because we are much larger here, granted ...
There is lots of info available on mixing foods pro and con..I was just saying according to my own experiences I know it is bad to mix raw food with processed or cooked...therefor I do the same for my dogs, serve them in different meals. It doesn't complicate mealtimes nor take more time...if it helps them in gaining the most out of their meal great, if it doesn't, oh well no sweat of my back. I am not going to go dig up a bunch of links...we can all google on our own time, I was merely trying to give the OP my opinion on raw feeding as I believed he was asking for it.
