If like you say, he has been doing it for a long time, it will be a struggle, IMO to break him of that habit…. And it certainly sounds like it was a problem at his old home...
I would try lvoss's idea of an xpen instead of a crate and see if that makes a difference...
I think he's nervous.. 10 months and he has been in a crate for 8-10 hours at his old place? I would be nervous too…
I would try to build up new confidence in crates and in humans putting dogs in crates.. I don't think it's ideal to put a dog in a new situation and than back in a crate again during the day.. (I don't think it's ideal to put a dog in a crate during the day in any situation)
Isn't it possible to get somebody to babysit? And than build up the crate time?
I'm with Lisa and Pat. Try an x-pen. You may also want to try a litter box if this doesn't work-at least you wouldn't have poop encrusted walls! He sounds like a spinner, which would be why the poop is all over, and he was probably never crate trained properly in the first place.
You have to remember also that he is a pet store puppy. Pet store pups live in that little cage in the window. They eat, sleep, & POOP inside that tiny little box. Therefore, he probably has only known pooping inside his crate/cage as the correct behavior. I'm sure with how much he was crated in his previous home, they were unable to fix this problem themselves.
When he pooped at 7:30 am with your DP, was it outside? If & when he does poop outside, be sure to reward & praise him A LOT. Make him feel so special for pooping outside, where he is supposed to. I would also try an x-pen if I were you. Good luck & keep us updated on this guy!
To answer some questions- His owners had him in an all wire crate.
I have to keep him in some type of cage/xpen, i don't have anyone who can babysit, all my family and friends work, and i can't afford and i'm sure BRAT cant pay to have a babysitter.
The BRAT coordinator knew i would be crating him, and we thought it would be ok bc the family said he was crate trained.
He does poop outside at night and in the morning, and we reward and praise him.
How could I set up an xpen? I've never used one before. I cant have it on the carpet because of the poop. What do I attach it to so he cant knock it over? Any help with xpen ideas would be great.
Sarah, I have an old x-pen if you want to try it. It may be a hike but the kids could play. Of course, Dash did some damage to it. Let me make sure it is usable.
The expen would be my first suggestion since it seems he thinks he is supposed to poop in the crate.
I would also restrict his food and water. All three of the B's in my house were bought from a pet store and they are all crate trained fine. My beagle was a research dog and I didn't start housebreaking her until she was 1 1/2. Actually she still isn't great but much much better.
This is my schedule, I know it seems a little extreme but I do not like cleaning up poop or pee.
3:00 Ern feeds/waters the dogs
3:30 pick up food unless already done
7:00 pick up water
they go out as needed the rest of the evening but no more food or water the rest of the night. 9:00 bedtime. 6:00 get up, put dogs out. When we leave at 7:20 they get a dog biscuit to go in the crate and to distract them from us leaving.
Since we have a 10 mo. old right now we come home and let her out around 11:30. This seems to work well for us. Good luck. I can imagine how stressful it is.
Sarah, I have an old x-pen if you want to try it. It may be a hike but the kids could play. Of course, Dash did some damage to it. Let me make sure it is usable.
The expen would be my first suggestion since it seems he thinks he is supposed to poop in the crate.
I would also restrict his food and water. All three of the B's in my house were bought from a pet store and they are all crate trained fine. My beagle was a research dog and I didn't start housebreaking her until she was 1 1/2. Actually she still isn't great but much much better.
This is my schedule, I know it seems a little extreme but I do not like cleaning up poop or pee.
3:00 Ern feeds/waters the dogs
3:30 pick up food unless already done
7:00 pick up water
they go out as needed the rest of the evening but no more food or water the rest of the night. 9:00 bedtime. 6:00 get up, put dogs out. When we leave at 7:20 they get a dog biscuit to go in the crate and to distract them from us leaving.
Since we have a 10 mo. old right now we come home and let her out around 11:30. This seems to work well for us. Good luck. I can imagine how stressful it is.
I'm still not sure i understand how the xpen works? Where do I put it? How do you hold it down? There is no top or bottom right?
Our scedule isnt too much different. They eat at 5/6, i will start feeding them at 4/5 after work. we wake up at 5am and he goes in the cage at 8:30am.
do you feed in morning? i think i'm going to cut the amount of food in the morning.
You can get tops for Xpens (advisable as they are really good at climbing out) and you can do something like putting a tarp under to protect the rug…
As far as morning feeding, most likely cutting back on the amount is a good idea...
I do not feed in the morning. They just get a biscuit to go into the crate. My resident 2 aren't crated at all. This is only for the 2 fosters.
The x-pen is like a child play pen. There is no top or bottom but you have little clips to hold it together.
I do not feed in the morning. They just get a biscuit to go into the crate. My resident 2 aren't crated at all. This is only for the 2 fosters.
The x-pen is like a child play pen. There is no top or bottom but you have little clips to hold it together.
Can't they knock it over to get out?
You could also try lining the crate with a BUNCH of newspaper; that might alleviate some of the mess with the pooping.
He could still be really uncomfortable with being in a crate, even though he is habituated to having to do it. It might make him nervous so he gets loose poop, and has to let it out.
Do you have any idea how long he CAN be in a crate before he poops. Does it happen shortly after you leave the house…or several hours later? you might video tape him to see what, if anything, preceds the pooping. If he acts stressed out when he does it, or just kind of matter of fact.
I also like the idea of finding a way to give him more room so if he must poop (or feels he must) he can get away from it...it will start to teach him it is nice to stay clean.
You could also try lining the crate with a BUNCH of newspaper; that might alleviate some of the mess with the pooping.
He could still be really uncomfortable with being in a crate, even though he is habituated to having to do it. It might make him nervous so he gets loose poop, and has to let it out.
Do you have any idea how long he CAN be in a crate before he poops. Does it happen shortly after you leave the house…or several hours later? you might video tape him to see what, if anything, preceds the pooping. If he acts stressed out when he does it, or just kind of matter of fact.
I also like the idea of finding a way to give him more room so if he must poop (or feels he must) he can get away from it...it will start to teach him it is nice to stay clean.
It seems like he poops shortly after you leave him.. he was crated for about 1.5 hours and he pooped. and when he is left for 4-5 hours, the poop is dried on him.
and i think you are right that he just really doesnt like being crated.
Can't they knock it over to get out?
You have to be creative and figure out a way to make it stable.. again, a top is critical, IMO… and it might require some "redecorating" a wall, corner or something to be able to attach to maybe eye screws in a wall stud.
Sarah , I have a wire crate you can borrow, it's big though…like shepherd size, but I used it when Sultan was a puppy and put a baby gate in the middle of it..it worked...let me know..
What we do when we have to set up an x-pen where we are not able to stake it down is clip on a top and a bottom. Basically, we just ordered 2 tops and clip one on the bottom and one on top.
Can't they knock it over to get out?
Good Point. We had it in the basement so I put it around the pole to hold up the rest of the house. Dash eventually learned to jump on it to get it to lean and then he could squeeze under it. But that took some time
Here is a link to Petedge's x-pen top.
They also sell a a x-pen cover that you could use as a bottom so the x-pen isn't open to the floor.
We have had issues with that at times too. It is usually a spite/nervous behavior. If someone comes in the house when we are not home it tends to happen. We have done two things to help. Strict, strict, strict schedule and multiple short walks. We only feed for 1/2 hr in am and pm, letting out before and about 20 min after both times. Sometimes she goes a whole day without eating much at all. Our vet said that is fine, and that if a dog is hungry enough, they will eat. Sometimes her stomach gets too empty, and she will vomit a little bile, so we do a couple of pieces for food as a bedtime snack. We keep access to water at all times.
We still go through periods where she will do it for three days in a row or so, every couple of months. Haven't really figured that out yet.
How many times per day is he pooping? Have you had a stool sample run, just to rule out any health issues?
We have had issues with that at times too. It is usually a spite/nervous behavior. If someone comes in the house when we are not home it tends to happen. We have done two things to help. Strict, strict, strict schedule and multiple short walks. We only feed for 1/2 hr in am and pm, letting out before and about 20 min after both times. Sometimes she goes a whole day without eating much at all. Our vet said that is fine, and that if a dog is hungry enough, they will eat. Sometimes her stomach gets too empty, and she will vomit a little bile, so we do a couple of pieces for food as a bedtime snack. We keep access to water at all times.
We still go through periods where she will do it for three days in a row or so, every couple of months. Haven't really figured that out yet.
How many times per day is he pooping? Have you had a stool sample run, just to rule out any health issues?
he is pooping 3-4 times outside and 1-2 times in the crate a day. he will be vetted (including stool) next week.
What is his feeding schedule and how much is he eating per day?
