Is my basenji from a legit breeder?

[MEANDI]

Ive been asked several times on here what my breeders name is and what the damn and sire's name were. Well i finally found my papers and i would like to know if anyone know shed some light on to know about if i should know anything about my basenji's breeder. I'd like to know if she was a backyard breeder, if my dog came from a line of great basenji's etc etc all the stuff you can tell me if its possible. The breeder's name is Sandy Simmons of Larmar, MO and my basenji's dam and sire are named…Sire: Redwhine, Dam: Whine. These names are very odd. ANyways if anyone knows anything let me know GOOD OR BAD haha

[basi]

Try doing a search on here http://www.pedigrees.zandebasenjis.com/

[lvoss]

Neither the sire nor the dam are in online pedigree database. What organization are the "papers" from your pup from? Were you given the pedigree or just the name of the sire and dam?

From the information that you provided and the lack of health testing information in the OFA database, the breeder is not what would be considered responsible.

[tanza]

I would agree with lvoss that your Basenji's breeder is not considered responsible. And since that is the case, you should consider DNA testing for Fanconi. You can learn about DNA Fanconi testing and other health concerns of Basenjis at www.basenjihealth.org

[etzbseder]

One of the easier ways I've figured of simply deciding if your pup is from a "legit" or "responsible" breeder would be if the breeder has made any attempts at staying in contact with you. You should also be able to ask them questions about any trouble with the pup or knowledge on the breed that you want.

If you can't get hold of the breeder, or they don't show any dogs and definitely test them, chances are it's not a good breeder.

This is far from exact, but it helps with the easier questions for is it a good breeder.

[MEANDI]

she has health records i have them, she did the deworming, intranasal, ear mites, high titer da2pp, external parasites, bordatella. Thats when the breeder had her. And my dog isnt registered. i Havent done it yet. And when i register her the registration papers are for APRI

[MEANDI]

i have reg numbers also for the dam and sire.

Sire: Redwhine
Reg. No. D06-YA-DG-30890A

Dam: Whine
Reg. No. A05-YX-DG-38071E

[tanza]

@MEANDI:

i have reg numbers also for the dam and sire.

Sire: Redwhine
Reg. No. D06-YA-DG-30890A

Dam: Whine
Reg. No. A05-YX-DG-38071E

This is not a "real" registery(APRI), this is a "pretend" one that Back Yard Breeders use and Puppy Mills because they don't want to do AKC required DNA parent testing.
And health testing we are talking about is Fanconi DNA, Hip Certification, Board Certified Eye testing, Thyroid Testing, plus others that should have been done on the Sire and Dam.
So, in the end, her breeder would not be responsible, but regardless, you have her now and she has a good home. You really however should consider DNA for Fanconi.

[lvoss]

Health records are not the same as health testing for genetically inherited disorders. Responsible breeders test for inherited disorders and breed to decrease the incidence of these diseases or when DNA tests are available they use that information to prevent any affected animals from being produced. The results for these health tests are recorded in the OFA database which is public. Your dog's parents were not tested for genetically inherited diseases.

I will second the recommendation that you have the Fanconi Marker Test run on your dog so you know her genetic status with regards to Fanconi Syndrome. This is a late onset disease usually dogs will not become symptomatic until after the age of 3. As of July 2007 a DNA Marker Test has been available and dogs can be identified as Probably Clear, Probably Carrier, Probably Affected, or Indeterminate.

APRI is a registry most commonly used by BYBs and puppymills that did not want to comply with AKC's DNA profile requirement for frequently used sires. AKC implemented a program asking that all male dogs that produce more that 5 litters in their lifetime have a DNA profile done. Many BYBs and puppymills were using multiple sires and attributing them to the 1 or 2 AKC dogs that they had and refused to comply with this rule. They created new registries that do not require any DNA profiling to ensure parentage. APRI is one of the registries that appeared around this time.

[MacPack]

She couldn't choose her parents or her breeder, but she was lucky that you chose her!

You can still have her DNA tested for Fanconi , the advantage is knowing she may be unaffected, or if she may be affected, you can strip test her often you will have an early start on treatments and a better outcome.
Many of us have 'BYB' dogs from rescue or shelters, I have had a couple live to 17 or older and maintain excellent health, quite a lucky break for us all!

Good luck with your lucky little girl.

Anne in Tampa

[1derfool]

Sorry to intrude, I normally only read, not post. When I saw the names Whine and Redwhine, I just knew I had seen them before. I'd done some searches a while back with Google for Basenji and those names came up. Like you said, they're not the run of the mill names, they stuck with me for some odd reason. I managed to dig up where I saw them, so this 'might' be of some help in finding out about the breeder.

Go to:
http://www.nopuppymills.com/forum//showthread.php?t=54562001

MARRS FAMILY & FRIENDS PRODUCTION SALE & AUCTION
KAREY MARRS
4523 South 60th Rd. Bolivar, MO 65613
Phone: (417) 694-8008 or (417) 326-9662
Web Site: www.mockingbirdhillkennel.com Email: MOCKINGBIRDHILLKENNEL@YAHOO.COM
DATE OF SALE: FRIDAY, MARCH 7th, 2008

This auction was in March, but the info is still there. Part way down the page is this:

Sandy Simmons
417-682-2117
Basenji 4 Females 2 Males

…. and then farther down is the listing of the dogs she's selling. You'll notice the names and #s match up to your info.

Basenji
NO# Sex NAME REGISTRATION # D.O.B. MICROCHIP #
184 FE Puppy Paper B07-WZ-DG-30982E 1/11/07
Comments: APRI. Reg. Color:
185 FE Ball Of Fire B06-WY-DG-34395F 1/16/06
Comments: APRI. Reg. Color: Black / White / Tan.
186 FE Whine A05-YX-DG-38071E 12/26/04
Comments: APRI. Reg. Color: Red & White.
187 FE Ro-Dan's Debra I01-AZ-DG-31723A 11/20/00
Comments: APRI. Reg. Color: Black / White / Tan.
188 MA Puppy Paper G07-ZA-DG-30606A 12/16/06
Comments: APRI. Reg. Color:
189 MA Redwhine D06-YA-DG-30890A 7/11/05
Comments: APRI. Reg. Color: Red & White.

I'll won't comment with my personal feelings about this kind of auction, nor am I promoting anything like it, it's just posted to give you some info that you might find useful.

[MEANDI]

i'd prefer to hear what your thoughts of this 1derfool. No need to hold your tongue. I would like to find out anything you say. Hey you guys if i dont register her with the APRI can i get her registered with the AKC? Should i contact the breeder and ask if my basenji's parents have any diseases etc etc. What do you think i should do?

[lvoss]

Your puppy is not eligible for registration with AKC since she does not have AKC registered parents. Once she is spayed you can apply for an Indefinate Listing Privledge (ILP) if you want to participate in lure coursing, agility, or rally with her.

I would highly recommend getting the DNA Marker Test for Fanconi. You won't need to know the parents' status and will know your pup's status. As for other disorders, if you plan to course your basenji, get her hips and patellas tested so you know that she is in good condition for coursing.

From 1derfool's post the parents of your dog were sold at auction in March.

[MEANDI]

is that bad her parents were sold at auction. she told me that she wasn't going to be breeding basenjis anymore after this last litter. I dont know what coursing means or rally etc etc. Sorry im just an owner of a dog i dont know technical terms. ALl i know is i just want her to be 100% perfect health etc etc, and want her to be tested for everything that u guys recommend for perfect growing up health

[tanza]

@MEANDI:

is that bad her parents were sold at auction. she told me that she wasn't going to be breeding basenjis anymore after this last litter. I dont know what coursing means or rally etc etc. Sorry im just an owner of a dog i dont know technical terms. ALl i know is i just want her to be 100% perfect health etc etc, and want her to be tested for everything that u guys recommend for perfect growing up health

It is, In My Opinion, the worst that her parents were sold at auction. How very sad… these dogs were no more then "used for money"... and not care about in the least.
What is meant by Coursing and Rally is these are activities that you can do with your Basenji even if NOT AKC registered (which she only can be if you spay her and then apply for an ILP number, read about ILP numbers at this link http://www.akc.org/reg/ilpex.cfm

As far as the health testing of your girl, please visit www.basenji.org and first learn about the health concerns of our breed. Then you can decide on the testing.

However, certainly you would want to do a DNA Fanconi Test.

[MEANDI]

so first, just keep the APRI registation. Dont sign up for it, keep the registration for my records for just because purposes? But do sign up for this PAL/ILP? Is this a normal registration for a dog? Not just for competing?

[tanza]

APRI registation means nothing and IMO you have no idea is those are even really your girls parents, I would not waste my money.. and ILP would only be necessary if you wanted to compete. Otherwise it is really not really necessary. Since your girl came from a puppymill type person she is not able to be registered with AKC and if you want some type of "legit" registration, then you can do the ILP.

[JazzysMom]

@MEANDI:

so first, just keep the APRI registation. Dont sign up for it, keep the registration for my records for just because purposes? But do sign up for this PAL/ILP? Is this a normal registration for a dog? Not just for competing?

Unless you plan to compete in lure coursing {where they chase the "bunny" [plastic bag, LOL] around the field}, I wouldn't worry about any registration.

Just get the health testing done {esp. Fanconi, you really don't want to be hit by surprise with that one – do some research about it so you know what everyone is talking about} -- and enjoy your dog!

[MEANDI]

Post Deleted

[tanza]

@MEANDI:

How do we even know shes from a puppymill. I didnt pay very much for her. Im not disagreeing or anything isnt everything said just hearsay there arent straight facts showing shes from a puppymill

This person that you purchased from is a Puppy Mill type.. and it is usually puppy millers or those that are pretty darn close to a puppy miller that would sell their "X" breedings dogs at an auction. There is NO responsible breeder that would do that … she breeds to sell puppies and make money, period and that makes her a "pure for profit" breeder. She is not breeding for the good of the breed. Straight facts are:
1. Not AKC registered
2. No health testing (DNA for Fanconi, Hips, Eyes, Patellas, etc)
3. Shipping puppies all over the country without screening buyers
4. Doesn't require Spay/Neuter
5. Sell no long "usable" dogs at auction to the highest bidder
6. Sells at auction in-tact so yet another person can just use them as breeding dogs with no concern for the dog themselves.

If you go to this link, this will so you how to find a responsible breeder http://www.tanzabasenjis.net/selectbreeder.html
You can also find this link at www.basenji.org (Basenji Club of America website)