Worries about my boy and questions

[tanza]

Exactly what has already been said by lvoss…. I would also say that is a Back Yard Breeder who doesn't test. Usually to me is when a person says "It is just a hobby" it is a big red flag. As Lisa said, responsible breeders are really hobby breeders as we do not make money, not after responsible testing before breeding, care of the litter, test after the litter is born, .... we are lucky to break even.... And if you really want to get down to it, responsible breeders are breeding to hopefully keep something for themselves to carry on their breeding program, not to just sell puppies.

I can tell you for a fact that if anyone out of the area contacts me for a puppy, they are told that they MUST personally come and pick up that puppy, I will not nor will I ever ship a puppy to someone as baggage. Period...

So your job now is to get your boy tested... love him... and help to educate others on how to find a responsible breeder. There are many links on this board on how to find a responsible breeder... but it is good to repeat.

http://www.tanzabasenjis.net/selectbreeder.html

[lvoss]

Another thing that everyone who has gotten a basenji from BYBs, petstores, etc can do to help is help us to develop educational resources to help future puppy buyers in doing their research.

Pat included a link to one resource, and here is another, http://kineticbasenjis.tripod.com/Information/Buying_a_Basenji.html

What information should the Basenji Club of America and their local affliate clubs work on providing to the public to help educate?

[renaultf1]

@lvoss:

What information should the Basenji Club of America and their local affliate clubs work on providing to the public to help educate?

Boy…that is a good question. Because really for me the BCOA website info and the ease of finding a breeder thru that was what prevented me from the making the same mistake of going thru a BYB (I already knew about avoiding pet stores).

One thing I can think of (if it isn't already on there) is about cost. Many people think that responsible breeders cost more than pet stores & bybs and that is definitely not the situation. Yes, the person who posted originally paid less than what many charge, but KiroGurl paid about the same or more. We all know the people on here who ended buying from a pet store and ended up paying much higher than a responsible breeder charges.

Cost might really be a good angle to gear something toward because so many people go at it from an initial cost output and looking for the best deal. I heard an ad on the radio last week for a pet store that was offering financing that would allow payments of $10 per week.

[tanza]

@renaultf1:

Boy…that is a good question. Because really for me the BCOA website info and the ease of finding a breeder thru that was what prevented me from the making the same mistake of going thru a BYB (I already knew about avoiding pet stores).

One thing I can think of (if it isn't already on there) is about cost. Many people think that responsible breeders cost more than pet stores & bybs and that is definitely not the situation. Yes, the person who posted originally paid less than what many charge, but KiroGurl paid about the same or more. We all know the people on here who ended buying from a pet store and ended up paying much higher than a responsible breeder charges.

Cost might really be a good angle to gear something toward because so many people go at it from an initial cost output and looking for the best deal. I heard an ad on the radio last week for a pet store that was offering financing that would allow payments of $10 per week.

As the chair of the BCOA Outreach committee, I have always been after the club to change the website. I find it very difficult to navigate and also I believe that information regarding the breed, finding breeders should be front and center on the site… like the link to "Is a Basenji right for me" section along with the Breeder directory.

As far as price, the way I look at it... as they say, you get what you pay for... and the initial output is far from the end cost... and people really do not look at that factor, IMO. While I have no problem working with someone with maybe splitting the cost into a payment or two, still people need to understand that having a pet costs... and sometimes costs a lot... just normal vet care is not cheap any more, add to that puppy school, maybe an Obedience class ... and the cost goes up... there is so much more that goes into having a family pet then the first cost....

[renaultf1]

@tanza:

As far as price, the way I look at it… as they say, you get what you pay for... and the initial output is far from the end cost... and people really do not look at that factor, IMO. While I have no problem working with someone with maybe splitting the cost into a payment or two, still people need to understand that having a pet costs... and sometimes costs a lot... just normal vet care is not cheap any more, add to that puppy school, maybe an Obedience class ... and the cost goes up... there is so much more that goes into having a family pet then the first cost....

Pat, I hear you about cost. That's why I'm so amazed when people are buying a pet based on the best deal (I think of the internet pet purchases in that sense). Makes no sense to me because I'd rather pay more for a healthy pet and one that might likely stay that way because all testing has been done prior to breeding. And I also completely agree about cost of a pet is so much more than the initial purchase.

My thing about saying there should be maybe be something about cost on the BCOA website was to educate buyers. Something like…"by purchasing from a pet store or byb did you know you aren't getting the best deal and here's why. Oh, and did you know that many times you are more likely to pay more thru those avenues than thru a responsible breeder..."

[PhocoenaGirl]

@lvoss:

Another thing that everyone who has gotten a basenji from BYBs, petstores, etc can do to help is help us to develop educational resources to help future puppy buyers in doing their research.

Pat included a link to one resource, and here is another, http://kineticbasenjis.tripod.com/Information/Buying_a_Basenji.html

What information should the Basenji Club of America and their local affliate clubs work on providing to the public to help educate?

I don't know if I came across the BCOA site when I was originally looking to purchase or not so I can't really help as far as what kind of improvements they should do to the site.

If it helps, for me cost wasn't why I went through the breeder I found online. I wasn't thinking, I want the best deal on a dog or anything like that. I think it may just be that neither I (nor my family) has ever had any experience getting purebred dogs. We have always adopted from shelters or adopted strays that wandered into our acreage.

Harley, my last dog who passed 09/2007 was a bluetation (blue tick/dalmation mix) we got from a shelter and I was devastated when he died. He had cancer so I knew it was coming but it was hard. Then when I was researching a dog to get that would be good in an apartment, be an exercise motivator etc, one of the considerations was that I wanted that dog to have a Harley-like personality. Intelligent, curious and a little bit willful because he was fun to work with and I liked the challenges he gave me every once in a while. But I didn't want to replace him so that's how I wound up looking for a basenji. I think maybe once I settled on a breed I went with the first breeder that seemed decent and didn't do as much research as I should have because of my emotional state at that point.

Don't know if that helps for BCOA or anything, but that's the story.

[snorky998]

It would be great to have a link right under "Is a Basenji right for me?" that was something like "Asking the right questions before puchase".

Had I known back then there were "right questions", I might not have purchased my dogs from the breeders I chose.

As a first time Basenji owner I wish someone had said to me…...
Ask for the registered names of the parents on the first phone call to use this
information to do your own research online.
Ask if they have had testing and are listed on the OFFA web site or just
tested periodically with a urine strip (include embedded link to OFFA)
Ask if they are a member of BCOA.
Ask if they just breed, or do they also show, course, or do agility.
Ask to see the entire facility (is this a fair question?) and the breeding pair
prior to committing to the purchase of a pup. (Even if this is not
feasible, their answer might throw up red flags)

I'm sure there are a lot more "right questions" (any suggestions?) and they may sound silly to the long time owners and breeders, but if you are a first time prospective Basenji owner, a link to information like this would be a God send (IMHO)

[tanza]

And that is also why I wanted the "how to select a responsible breeder" link front and center on the site also, not embedded in the "is a basenji right for me"… as all those questions are there for people to use... Take some time to read it (my link is the same as what in on the BCOA site) and see if that would have made a difference to you when you were searching.

http://www.tanzabasenjis.net/selectbreeder.html

As far as visiting and seeing the home and how the pups would be raised for sure, I always recommend a person visit….. as far as seeing the "breeding pair", in 90% of the case you would be able to see the bitch, but many times the stud doesn't live there or is not owned by the breeder and now days, many breedings may be done with frozen sperm from a dog that might be long gone...

And one other thing... to me, if someone is willing to put a pup on a plane at 8wks of age with never meeting the people that are getting that pup, I would run very fast from getting a pup from that person(s).

[lvoss]

Or it my case, I have the very weird reverse situation where people can come and visit the sire but the dam won't be coming to live with me until she is in season or when September 20th rolls around, whichever is first. But yes, I always ask that any perspective buyer come and visit with my dogs and also encourage them to visit with other families of basenjis because they aren't all the same and I want them to be confident that my family of basenjis is what they really want.

[snorky998]

Tanza/Pat, you are correct. The links are so deeply embedded in the site they are hard to find, nearly impossible if you don't know what you're looking for. I mean to say, if you don't know there are good questions to ask, why would you even be looking for a link?

The information on your link is wonderful, but I think many newbies out there think they already know how to select a good breeder (ie.distance and cost). I would like to see a simpler, faster to read, brief overview of what you would consider essential to a first time reader. Then a link to a site such as yours (http://www.tanzabasenjis.net/selectbreeder.html) for additional information.

Yes, the responsible pet owner to be will do the research required, explore every possibility, and follow through with questions, but that's not IMO who BCOA should target. It's the ignorant, impulse B. buyer that needs to be educated. Sincerely, dumb down the main topic(that sounds awful, sorry), then supply the support link for more information. Engage the reader first, then educate the reader.

[lvoss]

I am also on the Outreach committee and have worked with this material over and over again, trying to get it in a simple and easy to use form. I wrote the article Buying a Basenji to be a summary of all the qualities a buyer should look for when researching a breeder. There is a pdf format that prints on 1 page front and back with the urls so it can be handed out at Pet Fairs, Shows, etc.

I can see where an article like "Know What You Are Paying For" could be another good supplemental piece to the Questions to Ask and Buying A Basenji. What I am having a hard time with is how much simpler can we make these sort of materials? Is anyone willing to give an example since it may just be that people like myself and Pat have just had are hands on this material too long to see it any differently.

[tanza]

Exactly… and I would love some input from people that did purchase from a BYB on line or otherwise.

What exactly if you saw it, would "pull" you in.... and get you to read the material? What would have "engaged" you when looking?

The sad thing is that there are sites like puppyfind.com and nextdaypet.com that is so easy for people to go and find BYB puppies for sale. Even though there are some responsible breeders (and I do put ads on there for BCOA), what would be something that would catch someones interest?

[sharronhurlbut]

We all start somewhere with b's…no need to feel bad...now you know and can help others educated themselves.
These former posts are wonderful re info..
We live, learn and share.
Hugs

[MacPack]

My personal belief is that we all do the best we can, most of the time. You did the best you knew and you have a great dog now. If you had known more, you wouldn't have the sweet dog you now have, so no beating yourself up, please!! If you ever get another dog, you will know where to find a responsible breeder. All basenjis are wonderful, mine are rescues, I know the breeding of 2 but one was for sure from a BYB, and they are all perfect to me!

Many years ago I said that when my old one died, I would drive to California if I had to to find 2 healthy basenji siblings, and then the phone rang with a question about a rescued basenji.."can you take him?"..so much for my plans to have dogs of food breeding for once!

Hug your pup and be glad you found him!

Anne in Tampa

[BDawg]

Lexi came from Windjammer Kennels and her cost was $350. Maybe she was "cheap" for a non-backyard breeder…

And well, Miles is a pound puppy.

[sharronhurlbut]

Maybe I am "different", well, laugh, I know I am different, but I find talking about fees for b's troublesome.
Yes, rescue charges fees, breeders charge fees, put in my mind, picking a dog because of the price and not because it appeals to you, well, that just doesn't seem right.
I am sure that is not the way this issue was meant, its just something I see
that I wanted to share.
Sorry if I am way off base.

[tanza]

@BDawg:

Lexi came from Windjammer Kennels and her cost was $350. Maybe she was "cheap" for a non-backyard breeder…

And well, Miles is a pound puppy.

And was that pup health tested?… not to say either way.. but just a question.... as I don't know anyone that can get 350.00 for a pup... and even get close to covering the cost...

[tanza]

@sharronhurlbut:

Maybe I am "different", well, laugh, I know I am different, but I find talking about fees for b's troublesome.
Yes, rescue charges fees, breeders charge fees, put in my mind, picking a dog because of the price and not because it appeals to you, well, that just doesn't seem right.
I am sure that is not the way this issue was meant, its just something I see
that I wanted to share.
Sorry if I am way off base.

regardless of what you thing… price is a factor... lets face it.... rescue charges because they have costs to cover.. but in the end... it is the "cost" that make people realize that there is cost involved to being a good pet owner...

[Tayda_Lenny]

I got little Tayda when she was 2 years old for $400…. already spayed.

[MacPack]

A good friend got her 17 month old neutered boy from a well known breeder in Ga. He was her keeper till his rump grew taller than his shoulders, (so much for finishing and breeding) so she wanted a good home and for only the price of the neuter, my friend got a great boy. Price can be a factor, but good, health tested basenjis are sometimes available for less than rescue charges.

Anne in Tampa