Well, if she doesn't pull, there is no need to change from what is already working for you. It is easier to continue to reinforcer her for not pulling, than it is to retrain a dog not to pull.
Definitely sounds like a strange thing for your vet to suggest
I agree! Sometimes when people say things, it takes a little while for things to compute in my brain! (Guess I'm Getting Old LOL) But I thought it was strange as well!
Andrea,
I've been meaning to ask you about that harness.
I got the Sensation Harness for Zip and our first couple of walks with it were a dream. I was like wow. I stopped it using it though b/c it was giving her little bald spots/callouses on her shoulders. I even called Soft Touch and they helped me to make sure I had it adjusted right: belly and back strap snug, chest strap loose. Zip also got little bald spots on her shoulders from her heavy coat, so I'm thinking it might be problem particular to her. Thoughts? Have you had this problem?
Andrea,
I've been meaning to ask you about that harness.
I got the Sensation Harness for Zip and our first couple of walks with it were a dream. I was like wow. I stopped it using it though b/c it was giving her little bald spots/callouses on her shoulders. I even called Soft Touch and they helped me to make sure I had it adjusted right: belly and back strap snug, chest strap loose. Zip also got little bald spots on her shoulders from her heavy coat, so I'm thinking it might be problem particular to her. Thoughts? Have you had this problem?
Hmm…no, I haven't had that problem, but I don't use the harness every day. You might try making it a little looser where it is rubbing? Are the spots on the top of her shoulders, or on the sides?
And I always hook the ring on the harness to the regular collar with the leash snap, so that even if the dog slipped out of the harness they would still be attached at the collar...that also gives the harness a little more stability so it doesn't slide all over the place on the chest. Did you try that already?
Andrea- I looked up the Sensible/Sensation Harness and read the feature/benefits on their site, but i'm still kinda confused about it.. How does it help for dogs that pull? Can they easily slip out of it? How does it attach to their regular collar? Mine pull, not too bad, but if i cold get something like that too help i would, because i dont like when they pull and put a lot of stress on their neck.. thanks for any help about them!!
Andrea- I looked up the Sensible/Sensation Harness and read the feature/benefits on their site, but i'm still kinda confused about it.. How does it help for dogs that pull? Can they easily slip out of it? How does it attach to their regular collar? Mine pull, not too bad, but if i cold get something like that too help i would, because i dont like when they pull and put a lot of stress on their neck.. thanks for any help about them!!
It helps because, since the leash attaches at the chest, it doesn't give the dog much leverage to pull forward. When they pull they kind of turned around back towards you.
It is a little hard to explain in words how the leash attaches to both the harness and the collar…I should try to get a pic. But the ring for attaching the leash on the harness sits right in the middle of the chest; so you put your leash clip on that then pull the ring from the regular collar down a little, and harness ring up a little 'till they meet, and snap the leash clip thru both rings.
Yes, some dogs can wriggle out of the harness by itself. That is why I don't like to take any chances and have them hooked up to the regular collar too.
Thanks for explaining that Andrea, i think i get the picture now.. I think I might try those, i really dont like the collar pulling on the neck when they try to chase a squirrel or rabbit! I thought I noticed a slight difference between the two you mention earlier in this thread, one had a loop on the chest strap kinda like a martingale collar, and the other was just a regular ring.. do you prefer one brand over the other??
Gosh a prong collar how medieval their illegal over here thank god.
I used to have Akitas, and we had prong collars for them, but we didn't use them that much. On a larger dog I can see it, but not on something like a Basenji. That's crazy that the vet would just waltz in with a prong collar and go "hey, you should use this." I could see if you had some big Northern Breed dog and it was jumping at him, but you don't.
Thanks for explaining that Andrea, i think i get the picture now.. I think I might try those, i really dont like the collar pulling on the neck when they try to chase a squirrel or rabbit! I thought I noticed a slight difference between the two you mention earlier in this thread, one had a loop on the chest strap kinda like a martingale collar, and the other was just a regular ring.. do you prefer one brand over the other??
I slightly prefer the Sensible harness, but perhaps because I have had more experience with it. The premier has the martingale like loop. I have clients who have the premiers and are very happy with them….so I think it is kind of a personal preference kind of thing. The sensibles have to be ordered online...but there are pet supplies stores in a lot of areas that carry the premier.
I have a prong collar (the prongs had dull tips) for EL D but used it ONLY DURING obedience class and practise in home.
The instructor was adament that these collars never be used for general wear and made sure we all took them off our dogs before we left class (she also insisted never use the prong collar with any other collar). She used these collars only for training purposes and not to prevent pulling - for that she brought bitter apple spray (any time a dog began pulling too much the dog would get a little sprayed). Even though EL D is pretty headstrong, I never really had to tighten on that collar.
I have a prong collar (the prongs had dull tips) for EL D but used it ONLY DURING obedience class and practise in home.
The instructor was adament that these collars never be used for general wear and made sure we all took them off our dogs before we left class (she also insisted never use the prong collar with any other collar). She used these collars only for training purposes and not to prevent pulling - for that she brought bitter apple spray (any time a dog began pulling too much the dog would get a little sprayed). Even though EL D is pretty headstrong, I never really had to tighten on that collar.
Please be careful with these techniques, particularly with Basenjis. Bitter apple is not intended to be used in that manner, and could very well hurt a dog's eyes.
What training exercises is the prong collar used for, if not pulling? IMO, the ONLY use for it is for certain dogs that are excessively pulling.
Dallas was so good at not pulling…until he got a bit older & more confident & now, especially if he sees people, he practically tries to pull my arm out of the socket! He's small but boy does he have some strength! I was told by my trainer to continue using the standard collar & 6" leash but if he starts to pull stop dead in my tracks until he loosens the lead up, give a treat, continue walking. Well, hah, I don't know if this trainer has ever tried this on a basenji but it just doesn't work! It's like he knows he is behaving if the lead is loose but he just doesn't care because he wants to get where he wants to get to at his own pace! Haha. I have gone back & forth in harnesses but I actually like the way the one Andrea mentioned [the premier] looks so perhaps I will give that a go.
I can tell you one thing though, Dallas could weigh 3 times as much as he does now & literally rip my arm out of the socket but I still wouldn't use a prong collar…
What training exercises is the prong collar used for, if not pulling? IMO, the ONLY use for it is for certain dogs that are excessively pulling.
With the Akitas I had, the idea with prong collar was to use a little pressure to indicate you wanted them to do something- like how some people use clickers. You don't really pull hard on it, just a little pressure. But still, I've only used them with large dogs with thick coats. I'd NEVER use them on small dogs like Basenjis.
I find it interesting that in Sweden these collars are illegal yet in the US according to my vet you can get them anywhere. (By the way I have yet to see one in any petsmart or grocery store as he commented. I appreciate all the feedback sooooo much. Again, I just found the entire conversation strange and I would NEVER use any type of device like that on our little girl. Like I said I can almost understand it for a big dog but even than it just looked horrible to me. But I am a big softie and Trixie is quite spoiled! Hard to Believe Huh!!
I find it interesting that in Sweden these collars are illegal yet in the US according to my vet you can get them anywhere. (By the way I have yet to see one in any petsmart or grocery store as he commented. I appreciate all the feedback sooooo much. Again, I just found the entire conversation strange and I would NEVER use any type of device like that on our little girl. Like I said I can almost understand it for a big dog but even than it just looked horrible to me. But I am a big softie and Trixie is quite spoiled! Hard to Believe Huh!!
A spoiled basenji…NEVER! :rolleyes:
We have all kinds of strange laws put by the agricultural department the latest is that you aren´t allowed to crate your dog except when transporting or at dogshows and then only for short periods of time.If you leave your dog alone at home ´someone has to take out the dog for a walk after 6 hrs.
Ok the home alone is a good law but to forbid crating totally hmmmmm….
With the Akitas I had, the idea with prong collar was to use a little pressure to indicate you wanted them to do something- like how some people use clickers. You don't really pull hard on it, just a little pressure. But still, I've only used them with large dogs with thick coats. I'd NEVER use them on small dogs like Basenjis.
Well, that is not how clickers are intended to be used. They mark correct behavior, not as a cue for desired behavior. It is a totally different method of training…rewarding the desired behavior instead of correcting the undesirable behavior.
I doubt we want to get into a whole discussion of the value of different types of training...but I don't understand why would you use the prong collar as a cue for a desired behavior; why not just use a command?
The only way I have seen correction collars (prongs and chokes) used is as a correction after a command has been ignored.
And again, I am not totally against prong collars, I think they have some appropriate uses...but only as a correction tool (I have heard them jokingly refered to as a 'hearing aid' for dogs).
I find it interesting that in Sweden these collars are illegal yet in the US according to my vet you can get them anywhere. (By the way I have yet to see one in any petsmart or grocery store as he commented. I appreciate all the feedback sooooo much. Again, I just found the entire conversation strange and I would NEVER use any type of device like that on our little girl. Like I said I can almost understand it for a big dog but even than it just looked horrible to me. But I am a big softie and Trixie is quite spoiled! Hard to Believe Huh!!
Well, most (all?) of Europe is more governmentally restrictive about what is and isn't appropriate for all types of companion animal care and breeding(except for spay and neuter)…so that doesn't surprise me.
But, yeah, you can definitely find prong collars at pet supplies stores in our area. That is part of the problem with them, is that anybody can buy one and slap it on their dog, and have no idea how to use it correctly. And, then yes, it can be completely ineffective, dangerous, and damaging to the training they are trying to accomplish.
I doubt we want to get into a whole discussion of the value of different types of training…but I don't understand why would you use the prong collar as a cue for a desired behavior; why not just use a command?
They were show dogs. The owners wanted them to be trained without using verbal commands. I was helping out, I have no idea why they did half the stuff they did. My own Akitas had them at the beginning, but I didn't like them and got rid of them.
But you can get them just about anywhere around here. It sucks, because I see tons of people put them on dogs that shouldn't have them, or just to make the dog look "vicious" and have no idea how you're supposed to use them. I see them on Pitbulls and Rottweilers all the time.
Again, all collars have their usefullness-even prongs when used correctly. The problem is getting people to use them correctly. I'm sure Andrea would agree-most people have no idea how to fit, or use, them correctly.
