The NILF program is exactly the sort of thing your basenji needs. She has hit teenage time and like human teenagers is pushing authority. In this case, don't push her off the couch or yank the afghan from under her or any of those sorts of manuvers. Start by getting her attention just before she is going to jump onto the couch by offering a treat diverting her attention away from the couch. If she decides to come for the treat, she gets it, and then gets to be on the couch as a double reward; if she decides to complete her jump to the couch instead, she doesn't get the treat. Once she starts to look at you first ("asking permission") before she takes the couch then the reward becomes the couch. And to get her off the couch, use the reverse. Offer her a treat in such a way that she has to get off the couch to get it and click as soon as she decides to get off Once she understands that, add the "off" word. You might have to use treats just for this exercise that she wouldn't get any other time to make this more enticing to her. You might also want to introduce mat work so that she has to go to her mat or afghan or whatever, on the floor, instead of getting on the couch in the first place.
BIG problems with Jack…
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It sounds like Jack just needs some time to adjust–especially with all the extra family in the house. If he's doing this well so far, I think (hope) things will only get better. I'm glad you and your hubby love him so much and are being understanding and working with him. Just because they growl (my Zoey does that at the vets, with Tyler (her basenji dad), and even with me sometimes)--she does it out of fear and to tell us she doesn't like what we're doing (like when I have to pick her up to put her outside in the rain to go potty)--but she's all growl and no bite....with me--it's really more grumbling than growling--at the vets--it's growling. It happens much less now that she's gotten used to her vet and dermatologist.
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WELL The Family has been gone for sometime now, BUT Jack is growling at ANY other person besides me and Geoff that comes over, even people who have been around many times before…and sometimes he will go on and attempt to nip (like a good friend of ours who was over today but has been over thousands of times before with no problems, and im shocked because she was petting him for a good couple a minutes and then he just jumped up and tried to bite her!! )We cant afford a behaviorist unfortunatly….but im getting really concerned....im afraid Aiden or Me might be next, and there is NOTHING that triggers his "attack" or Aggression. Its completely random. We are at the end of our ropes here...and i feel like we have tried EVERYTHING...we spend TONS of just Jack and me or my husband time and all of us together with the baby as well and jack is his old self, but if hes nipping and growling EVERYtime a stranger is here, its not safe to have him...because he could bite on of us next...i really have no more ideas on what to do, Is Jack helpless at this point? i dont want to sell him, but it hurts me to be afraid of him...:(
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WELL The Family has been gone for sometime now, BUT Jack is growling at ANY other person besides me and Geoff that comes over, even people who have been around many times before…and sometimes he will go on and attempt to nip (like a good friend of ours who was over today but has been over thousands of times before with no problems, and im shocked because she was petting him for a good couple a minutes and then he just jumped up and tried to bite her!! )We cant afford a behaviorist unfortunatly….but im getting really concerned....im afraid Aiden or Me might be next, and there is NOTHING that triggers his "attack" or Aggression. Its completely random. We are at the end of our ropes here...and i feel like we have tried EVERYTHING...we spend TONS of just Jack and me or my husband time and all of us together with the baby as well and jack is his old self, but if hes nipping and growling EVERYtime a stranger is here, its not safe to have him...because he could bite on of us next...i really have no more ideas on what to do, Is Jack helpless at this point? i dont want to sell him, but it hurts me to be afraid of him...:(
While I understand your concerns… never is it "for no reason"... Jack has a reason that his is not feeling secure in the home situation. It is unfortunate that you can't get a behavoirist.. because I am sure that this could help the adjustment time... I would doubt that without professional help even suggestions on this forum will not help... as someone needs to watch and see exactly what is going on.... It is my opinion that you have already lost all confidence in Jack and that feeling is being transferred to him... knowingly or not.... and Jack has picked up on those feelings... In your current position, you should consider contacting BRAT for assistance in trying to rehome Jack... again IMO, it seems you will never really trust him and he will continue to pick up on those feelings.
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I would at least see how much it costs to work with a dog behavioralist or get a professional opinion, where they can see things first hand.
I have to agree that Basenji rescue might be your best option without hiring a trainer. Once your son becomes a wobbly toddler and without being able to crate Jack could spell trouble down the road.
I would not sell him to anyone, as you know, it takes a dedicated owner to work with Basenji's. BRAT rescue screens new homes for the dogs.
Is their a BRAT rescue near you to at least contact?
First I would try a Behavioralist, is Jack not worth the money to you?
A counseling could be free with some trainers or at least at a very minimal cost?
At least then you would have explored all your options, you owe that to Jack I believe. He deserves the best as deep down he is a great dog, but maybe not the best type of dog for your situation at this time.
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First I would try a Behavioralist, is Jack not worth the money to you?
A counseling could be free with some trainers or at least at a very minimal cost?
At least then you would have explored all your options, you owe that to Jack I believe. He deserves the best as deep down he is a great dog, but maybe not the best type of dog for your situation at this time.
Sorry, but I don't entirely agree here…Given the added money of a new baby and all those new expenses, it probably isn't a question about whether or not Jack is worth the money. Everyone has their own money realities and I don't think adding to their pressure anymore than they already feel it is going to do anyone any good. It doesn't seem that they are coming to the conclusion lightly about possibly re-homing Jack.
I agree that BRAT would be the best option if they can't keep him and agree that possibly there is someone they could see that could do some sort of low-cost initial consult...perhaps their vet could suggest someone.
At the same time, Tanza sounds right. It sounds like everyone has possibly lost confidence in Jack, and if he is picking up on those feelings, then maybe a new home would be best.
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Sorry, but I don't entirely agree here…Given the added money of a new baby and all those new expenses, it probably isn't a question about whether or not Jack is worth the money. Everyone has their own money realities and I don't think adding to their pressure anymore than they already feel it is going to do anyone any good. It doesn't seem that they are coming to the conclusion lightly about possibly re-homing Jack.
I agree that BRAT would be the best option if they can't keep him and agree that possibly there is someone they could see that could do some sort of low-cost initial consult...perhaps their vet could suggest someone.
At the same time, Tanza sounds right. It sounds like everyone has possibly lost confidence in Jack, and if he is picking up on those feelings, then maybe a new home would be best.
I have to agree. I think it is possible that Jack is behaving aggressively towards strangers BECAUSE of the baby…and may not be likely to hurt the baby...BUT...that is a risk that most normal people aren't willing to take. And if the Mom feels that her baby is at risk, then it is time to place the dog in a new home. It is a very personal, and difficult decision....and certainly not one to be made lightly, nor to be pressured into.
I have found there comes a time, particularly with cranky/dangerous dogs, that the parents just want some validation that it is okay to feel like their child is in danger, and it is okay to find a more suitable home for the dog....and IT IS OKAY! That doesn't make it any easier to actually do...but it is nothing to be ashamed about.
Jack needs BRAT...they will help find him a more suitable home, hopefully with lots of Basenji experience.
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Kira,
You may still want to just call around. I got lucky – the behaviorist that I'm seeing with Keoki is doing it FREE of charge. She's currently "retired" from doing behavior work herself with clients, because she is the administrator at the training center and at the vet clinic where I take the dogs. My vet asked her to evaluate Keoki, so she did, and then decided to take him on as a courtesy. {With one income, a kid in college, one planning to go to film $chool next year, two in braces, two with Diabetes, and the list goes on, I'm sure I couldn't have afforded the help otherwise - and not because Keoki isn't worth it to me, but because it simply ain't there!}Consider making an appt w/your vet and ask if their office can recommend anyone. Call area behaviorists, explain your situation and maybe..just maybe one may take Jack on for a reduced rate/free/payments, etc.
That said, Our problems with Keoki did not put anyone in danger; my kids were not at risk. We have all the time in the world to work on his problems. The FIRST {second, and third} priority is keeping Aiden safe.
Contacting BRAT is a responsible choice. In fact, it may well be THE responsible choice. And it certainly doesn't minimize how much you love Jack. It may really show the depth of your love, as you seek a home where he can live in emotional peace.
Good luck; my heart really goes out to you.
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Sorry, but I don't entirely agree here…Given the added money of a new baby and all those new expenses, it probably isn't a question about whether or not Jack is worth the money
I'm not saying that, but I believe it does not hurt to at least investigate or look for professional help, before you write it off as too expensive. It could be a local basenji breeder or a Brat member that can evaluate & help?
ask your local vet or animal shelter for Behavioral trainers, explain your situation?
Also at the same time look for placing Jack so ether way you decide, you can weigh both options.
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I'm not saying that, but I believe it does not hurt to at least investigate or look for professional help, before you write it off as too expensive. It could be a local basenji breeder or a Brat member that can evaluate & help?
ask your local vet or animal shelter for Behavioral trainers, explain your situation?
Also at the same time look for placing Jack so ether way you decide, you can weigh both options.
Speaking as someone who trains dogs professionally….if Jack's family came to me, and said 'our dog has bitten people, and we are really afraid he might bite our child'...I most likely would suggest rehoming. If the family is concerned that their children are in danger, most trainers and behaviorists will take them at their word, and suggest rehoming. To do otherwise is a pretty big liability both legally, financially, and ethically. Imagine if a trainer said 'oh, I don't think so, he is only aggressive to strangers' the owners then followed a training and behavioral mod program...and then the dog DID bite the child...the family could sue the trainer for far more than the trainer is worth. Not to mention the ethical burden for the trainer of assuming they knew what the dog was thinking, and having the child pay the price of the trainer's error.
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I think we all think of our pets as our kids until we have kids. I love my dog to death but I've said it before, really if it came down to saving my child or my dog there is NO question. Hopefully I could save both but that doesn't always work. I think it's hard, Jack was your baby before you had a baby.(I had a cat like that) It's OK to do what ever needs to be done for Aiden. When he's older maybe you could adopt from BRAT. When you're ready you can kind of do a "pay back" so to speak. That thought may help to ease your pain at least a little. Good luck, it will all work out it's just really hard right now.
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You might try to find an BRAT person who has rehomed many basenjis, and ask if they can come over and "watch" the dog interact with the family.
She/he might see something that your not able to see.
Re trying to get food from someone who is eating, we use a squirt bottle filled with water, and it works.
Only takes a few wet squirts to get the basenji to back off until folks get up from the table.
Once they have laid down, or behaved while we eat, they get a treat, a bit of our food left on the plate, when we get up and leave the table.
We never feed from the table…ever..
Hope you get a handle on this b's behavior. -
thanks. i didnt know a vet might be ablle to help us, IM DEFINATLY going to look into that THANKS!!!
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I'm so sorry things with Jack have not improved. You probably can't pick up on what's triggering his behavior but like Tanza mentioned there usually IS a reason but we don't speak "dog" so it's hard for us to tell what's wrong.
If you can't spend the money on a Behaviorist perhaps you can call your local ASPCA they usually have professionals on hand & someone may be willing to evaluate Jack without a cost.
Good luck to all of you!
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It has been awhile how is Jack doing?
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WELL…Jack still has problems when people come over, even the people he is very use to. and its always completely random. So far he hasnt really bit anyone but he tried to bite a friend of ours. but its the one person who REALLY spends TONS of pet and treat time with Jack while shes here. and one day she was sitting on my bed and jack was sitting in front of her but facing me and she was petting him for a while then all the sudden i noticed his hackles up and before i could warn Melissa, Jack jumped up to bite her (he missed) but then he just sat back down like nothing happened...i have no idea why...im taking him to the vet in a few days so im going to discuss it with him and see what he suggests...im hoping for the best. THANKS for the concerns!!
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Do lte us know what the vet says.
How old is he again? -
he is five or six…dont know we rescued him and the shelter just guessed...
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I want to a training class that said dogs often need to be "retrained" at the age of 5-7…that is, taken back to a basic obedience class.
They get to that age, and think they should "move" up in the pack.
A gentle training class with a work to earn approch is recommended.
That is, you dog has to "do" something to get.
He has to sit to get a treat, sit to get on the couch...be invited to the bed, that type of thing,...he had to EARN the right to do the things he is getting for free now.
I know you have a new baby, and your tired and time is short...but its a way to keep this dog with you. So, my advice, is to give it a try. -
"our" behaviorist is having us wait for Keoki to make eye contact – however briefly right now -- before he gets anything from us. Eye contact for a cookie, for a lap, for dinner, etc. He makes eye contact, we say, "Yes!!!!" or "Good Boy!!!" with a big smile.
The idea is that he is NOT behaving for the reward, but for pleasing us. "Oh, when I make Mom happy, good things happen". When I don't, then Mom puts the cookie away, or doesn't pick me up, etc. He should learn to watch ME carefully for cues to desired behavior.So far, well...its been a crazy week w/lots of people in and out, and me on the run a lot, so I haven't been able to implement this very well. Friday we are heading for my Mom's, which means the dogs will be confined a lot, which means this training will be delayed yet again.
But AFTER Thanksgiving, I'll be able to really give it a go. Even with as little work as I've had the chance to do, he is beginning to catch on....beginning. -
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