It's true, I've never had to even think about crating until I got Oakley. All previous breeds were no problem staying loose in the house, oak is very house destructive so that was a no go, we also went through crate phobia but at 16 months he tolerates it better than I ever imagined
BIG problems with Jack…
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I am not going to pussyfoot around with you. your dog has already bitten two people, what's wrong with you…Your baby is in danger, never mind anyone else who comes into your home. Do something about it TODAY before your baby gets harmed.
Well, that is a very valid point of view….but those of us who have dogs who have bitten can tell you that it is not uncommon to have a dog that will bite a stranger, but not a family member. It is difficult to tell in this situation with Jack whether he would bite a family member or not right now, since none of us (except his humans) are there. But I am pretty sure the baby is not in any danger right now...I am sure none of them are leaving the baby alone with Jack, and the baby is too little to get himself into trouble with the dog.
In my opinion and experience, it is best to not act rashly in these situations and dump the dog...the situation can be managed until everyone has a clear head, and a behaviorist can be consulted, and then it can be decided if rehoming, or training, or even euthanasia is the best alternative...but a decision shouldn't be made in the midst of a very traumatic adjustment time.
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While others might have good suggestions, I would say you need a behaviorist ASAP… someone that can see Jack's actions in person and help you to deal with them.....
While you say nothing has changed with his schedule, his entire household has changed, it has... you have the baby now... and he knows that.... and is confused by what is going on... and where his place is... IMOJust from what I read that is what I think is going on.
Some good advice has been given, please be careful.
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Well, that is a very valid point of view….but those of us who have dogs who have bitten can tell you that it is not uncommon to have a dog that will bite a stranger, but not a family member. It is difficult to tell in this situation with Jack whether he would bite a family member or not right now, since none of us (except his humans) are there. But I am pretty sure the baby is not in any danger right now...I am sure none of them are leaving the baby alone with Jack, and the baby is too little to get himself into trouble with the dog.
In my opinion and experience, it is best to not act rashly in these situations and dump the dog...the situation can be managed until everyone has a clear head, and a behaviorist can be consulted, and then it can be decided if rehoming, or training, or even euthanasia is the best alternative...but a decision shouldn't be made in the midst of a very traumatic adjustment time.
Very well put Andrea….
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I am not going to pussyfoot around with you. your dog has already bitten two people, what's wrong with you…Your baby is in danger, never mind anyone else who comes into your home. Do something about it TODAY before your baby gets harmed.
That is a little rash, IMO.
It's not as if Jack has just started attacking people out of the blue. Nor has he moved to attack the baby. He's confused and probably a bit overwhelmed right now. What is needed is clear-thinking to solve the problem.
Dumping the dog won't solve his problem; it just puts another dog in a shelter that doesn't know what to do with babies and crowds of visitors, which makes a repeat of the event bound to happen with a new family.
This is a problem that can be solved, my guess is fairly soon.
Dumping or euthanizing every dog that goes through a stressful situation and reacts badly is not right nor fair.
The old belief that "once a dog bites there's no training him out of it" could not be more untrue. Many good dogs were destroyed because of that idea, and that is a shame because they could have been worked with just a bit and become awesome family pets.
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I agree. I don't think dumping the dog is the answer. My friend at work just dumped her dog (of only 1 week) and it was really disappointing. You don't just dump something at the first sign of trouble. You work with it and make your best effort to remedy the situation. We're all here for you and want what's best for everyone involved.
Keep your head up. -
Thanks again for all the advise. ive had Jack inside with everyone there with his caged muzzle on, and randomly we will take it off, esp. when DH and i are both in the room with him and he seems to be doing well. he still gets a little antsy, but seems to be getting better. he has only growled at one other person since my last post. a friend of mine, angela who has been over a thousand times and never had a problem with jack, got growled at for petting him while he was eating something off the floor and then i put on his muzzle (just in case) and he growled at her when she walked by him. @@ no clue why. but other than that its the same ol' Jack. I dont think we are going to get rid of him without a BIG fight to try and correct things. we'll see once things settle down here, and i PROMISE im being VERY careful around the baby, and everyone else for that matter. in fact the weather is finally good again and we are planning on going to the dog park!! ive been spending just me and Jack time and so has DH as well as pet pet pet the whole time he is with us and so are all the guests that are here, he LOVES it! so im trying all your ideas THANK you!! ill keep ya posted!
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Hi there! Just wondering how Jack is getting along with the new little addition to the family
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WELL things have calmed down, parents left on the 16th, but Jack was good the last few days they were here, in fact the only thing that happened since my post was Jack was outside in his dog house and my mom went to reach in and give him another doggie blanket and he growled at her, and he doesnt do that to me or geoff BUT I understand why he'd get upset at her….OH well...now hes doing good, he still gets excited and bolts around the room and just a few minutes ago Aiden WAS sleeping on the bed and Jack bolted up there...he didnt step on Aiden, he jumped over him thank god, but what can u do?? lol...all is well, WELL getting better anyway. hahaa!! OK ill talk to you all LATER!!! and ill keep ya posted!
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It sounds like Jack just needs some time to adjust–especially with all the extra family in the house. If he's doing this well so far, I think (hope) things will only get better. I'm glad you and your hubby love him so much and are being understanding and working with him. Just because they growl (my Zoey does that at the vets, with Tyler (her basenji dad), and even with me sometimes)--she does it out of fear and to tell us she doesn't like what we're doing (like when I have to pick her up to put her outside in the rain to go potty)--but she's all growl and no bite....with me--it's really more grumbling than growling--at the vets--it's growling. It happens much less now that she's gotten used to her vet and dermatologist.
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WELL The Family has been gone for sometime now, BUT Jack is growling at ANY other person besides me and Geoff that comes over, even people who have been around many times before…and sometimes he will go on and attempt to nip (like a good friend of ours who was over today but has been over thousands of times before with no problems, and im shocked because she was petting him for a good couple a minutes and then he just jumped up and tried to bite her!! )We cant afford a behaviorist unfortunatly….but im getting really concerned....im afraid Aiden or Me might be next, and there is NOTHING that triggers his "attack" or Aggression. Its completely random. We are at the end of our ropes here...and i feel like we have tried EVERYTHING...we spend TONS of just Jack and me or my husband time and all of us together with the baby as well and jack is his old self, but if hes nipping and growling EVERYtime a stranger is here, its not safe to have him...because he could bite on of us next...i really have no more ideas on what to do, Is Jack helpless at this point? i dont want to sell him, but it hurts me to be afraid of him...:(
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WELL The Family has been gone for sometime now, BUT Jack is growling at ANY other person besides me and Geoff that comes over, even people who have been around many times before…and sometimes he will go on and attempt to nip (like a good friend of ours who was over today but has been over thousands of times before with no problems, and im shocked because she was petting him for a good couple a minutes and then he just jumped up and tried to bite her!! )We cant afford a behaviorist unfortunatly….but im getting really concerned....im afraid Aiden or Me might be next, and there is NOTHING that triggers his "attack" or Aggression. Its completely random. We are at the end of our ropes here...and i feel like we have tried EVERYTHING...we spend TONS of just Jack and me or my husband time and all of us together with the baby as well and jack is his old self, but if hes nipping and growling EVERYtime a stranger is here, its not safe to have him...because he could bite on of us next...i really have no more ideas on what to do, Is Jack helpless at this point? i dont want to sell him, but it hurts me to be afraid of him...:(
While I understand your concerns… never is it "for no reason"... Jack has a reason that his is not feeling secure in the home situation. It is unfortunate that you can't get a behavoirist.. because I am sure that this could help the adjustment time... I would doubt that without professional help even suggestions on this forum will not help... as someone needs to watch and see exactly what is going on.... It is my opinion that you have already lost all confidence in Jack and that feeling is being transferred to him... knowingly or not.... and Jack has picked up on those feelings... In your current position, you should consider contacting BRAT for assistance in trying to rehome Jack... again IMO, it seems you will never really trust him and he will continue to pick up on those feelings.
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I would at least see how much it costs to work with a dog behavioralist or get a professional opinion, where they can see things first hand.
I have to agree that Basenji rescue might be your best option without hiring a trainer. Once your son becomes a wobbly toddler and without being able to crate Jack could spell trouble down the road.
I would not sell him to anyone, as you know, it takes a dedicated owner to work with Basenji's. BRAT rescue screens new homes for the dogs.
Is their a BRAT rescue near you to at least contact?
First I would try a Behavioralist, is Jack not worth the money to you?
A counseling could be free with some trainers or at least at a very minimal cost?
At least then you would have explored all your options, you owe that to Jack I believe. He deserves the best as deep down he is a great dog, but maybe not the best type of dog for your situation at this time.
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First I would try a Behavioralist, is Jack not worth the money to you?
A counseling could be free with some trainers or at least at a very minimal cost?
At least then you would have explored all your options, you owe that to Jack I believe. He deserves the best as deep down he is a great dog, but maybe not the best type of dog for your situation at this time.
Sorry, but I don't entirely agree here…Given the added money of a new baby and all those new expenses, it probably isn't a question about whether or not Jack is worth the money. Everyone has their own money realities and I don't think adding to their pressure anymore than they already feel it is going to do anyone any good. It doesn't seem that they are coming to the conclusion lightly about possibly re-homing Jack.
I agree that BRAT would be the best option if they can't keep him and agree that possibly there is someone they could see that could do some sort of low-cost initial consult...perhaps their vet could suggest someone.
At the same time, Tanza sounds right. It sounds like everyone has possibly lost confidence in Jack, and if he is picking up on those feelings, then maybe a new home would be best.
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Sorry, but I don't entirely agree here…Given the added money of a new baby and all those new expenses, it probably isn't a question about whether or not Jack is worth the money. Everyone has their own money realities and I don't think adding to their pressure anymore than they already feel it is going to do anyone any good. It doesn't seem that they are coming to the conclusion lightly about possibly re-homing Jack.
I agree that BRAT would be the best option if they can't keep him and agree that possibly there is someone they could see that could do some sort of low-cost initial consult...perhaps their vet could suggest someone.
At the same time, Tanza sounds right. It sounds like everyone has possibly lost confidence in Jack, and if he is picking up on those feelings, then maybe a new home would be best.
I have to agree. I think it is possible that Jack is behaving aggressively towards strangers BECAUSE of the baby…and may not be likely to hurt the baby...BUT...that is a risk that most normal people aren't willing to take. And if the Mom feels that her baby is at risk, then it is time to place the dog in a new home. It is a very personal, and difficult decision....and certainly not one to be made lightly, nor to be pressured into.
I have found there comes a time, particularly with cranky/dangerous dogs, that the parents just want some validation that it is okay to feel like their child is in danger, and it is okay to find a more suitable home for the dog....and IT IS OKAY! That doesn't make it any easier to actually do...but it is nothing to be ashamed about.
Jack needs BRAT...they will help find him a more suitable home, hopefully with lots of Basenji experience.
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Kira,
You may still want to just call around. I got lucky – the behaviorist that I'm seeing with Keoki is doing it FREE of charge. She's currently "retired" from doing behavior work herself with clients, because she is the administrator at the training center and at the vet clinic where I take the dogs. My vet asked her to evaluate Keoki, so she did, and then decided to take him on as a courtesy. {With one income, a kid in college, one planning to go to film $chool next year, two in braces, two with Diabetes, and the list goes on, I'm sure I couldn't have afforded the help otherwise - and not because Keoki isn't worth it to me, but because it simply ain't there!}Consider making an appt w/your vet and ask if their office can recommend anyone. Call area behaviorists, explain your situation and maybe..just maybe one may take Jack on for a reduced rate/free/payments, etc.
That said, Our problems with Keoki did not put anyone in danger; my kids were not at risk. We have all the time in the world to work on his problems. The FIRST {second, and third} priority is keeping Aiden safe.
Contacting BRAT is a responsible choice. In fact, it may well be THE responsible choice. And it certainly doesn't minimize how much you love Jack. It may really show the depth of your love, as you seek a home where he can live in emotional peace.
Good luck; my heart really goes out to you.
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Sorry, but I don't entirely agree here…Given the added money of a new baby and all those new expenses, it probably isn't a question about whether or not Jack is worth the money
I'm not saying that, but I believe it does not hurt to at least investigate or look for professional help, before you write it off as too expensive. It could be a local basenji breeder or a Brat member that can evaluate & help?
ask your local vet or animal shelter for Behavioral trainers, explain your situation?
Also at the same time look for placing Jack so ether way you decide, you can weigh both options.
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I'm not saying that, but I believe it does not hurt to at least investigate or look for professional help, before you write it off as too expensive. It could be a local basenji breeder or a Brat member that can evaluate & help?
ask your local vet or animal shelter for Behavioral trainers, explain your situation?
Also at the same time look for placing Jack so ether way you decide, you can weigh both options.
Speaking as someone who trains dogs professionally….if Jack's family came to me, and said 'our dog has bitten people, and we are really afraid he might bite our child'...I most likely would suggest rehoming. If the family is concerned that their children are in danger, most trainers and behaviorists will take them at their word, and suggest rehoming. To do otherwise is a pretty big liability both legally, financially, and ethically. Imagine if a trainer said 'oh, I don't think so, he is only aggressive to strangers' the owners then followed a training and behavioral mod program...and then the dog DID bite the child...the family could sue the trainer for far more than the trainer is worth. Not to mention the ethical burden for the trainer of assuming they knew what the dog was thinking, and having the child pay the price of the trainer's error.
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I think we all think of our pets as our kids until we have kids. I love my dog to death but I've said it before, really if it came down to saving my child or my dog there is NO question. Hopefully I could save both but that doesn't always work. I think it's hard, Jack was your baby before you had a baby.(I had a cat like that) It's OK to do what ever needs to be done for Aiden. When he's older maybe you could adopt from BRAT. When you're ready you can kind of do a "pay back" so to speak. That thought may help to ease your pain at least a little. Good luck, it will all work out it's just really hard right now.
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You might try to find an BRAT person who has rehomed many basenjis, and ask if they can come over and "watch" the dog interact with the family.
She/he might see something that your not able to see.
Re trying to get food from someone who is eating, we use a squirt bottle filled with water, and it works.
Only takes a few wet squirts to get the basenji to back off until folks get up from the table.
Once they have laid down, or behaved while we eat, they get a treat, a bit of our food left on the plate, when we get up and leave the table.
We never feed from the table…ever..
Hope you get a handle on this b's behavior. -
thanks. i didnt know a vet might be ablle to help us, IM DEFINATLY going to look into that THANKS!!!
