Thanks for the advice. It's definitely helped!
Wet weather exercise
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Thank you! Hugo is my first dog and I'm a little overwhelmed. I've spent so much time with dogs over my life but never raised a puppy and I have to confess I was ignorant of how much work it is. It's nice to have found a friendly community here to help me get through it.
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He's only 12 weeks old ! Some breeders don't let them leave the nest till almost that age - so he is still a baby and is forming a bond with you as his pack leader. He needs sleep whenever he needs sleep ! there is no pattern to it. Dogs do sleep a great deal of the time. And a puppy even more so. This is not something you can have any control over although you can make him a bed somewhere quiet, teach him that that is HIS space and he won't be disturbed and at night, have his bed close to yours - or better yet, let him curl up with you.
When he wakes up, let him out to pee because that will be the first thing he needs to do. And rain or shine, don't let him dictate. He has to go out. He WILL have accidents at this age but it won't last long. At 12 weeks he is unlikely to be able to go through the night. Once he has had all his shots and can go out for proper walks, don't over do it at first but he will get tired and sleep when he gets home.
Good luck -
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@t89rex said in Wet weather exercise:
Thanks for your help everyone.
Rather than start a whole new topic for what I'm sure will be the second of many, many questions I have I was hoping I could ask you all here.
Hugo sleeps very well during the night, and often goes all the way through from 10 to 6 without needing a break. He also very calmly lets me know when he does need to go during the night which is great.
The trouble I have during the day is that like a human child he really doesn't seem to know when he needs rest. Often he'll come and ask for a cuddle and then go to sleep on my lap but I don't think I'm doing him any favours training him to need me to sleep.
When I think he's tired I often just put him in his crate and try to ignore him if he whinges, but he's had a few accidents in there. I have trouble distinguishing between general "I'd prefer to get out of this crate and be with you" which I don't want to reward, and genuine need to go out and toilet.
Does anyone have any tips to help him self regulate his sleep a bit better?
Great question.
Distinguishing between the kind of whining is difficult. I'll get more in detail about what to do later in the post. Also, if he's giving you no problems at night, then a few other things could be at work here.
To begin, I would recommend experimenting with more exercise in general, regardless of how much he's getting now. Some Basenji puppies have a seemingly unlimited supply of energy. That, coupled with a curious nature and a persistent and hard-headed character, makes for a dog looking to get into trouble.
Tiring him out sufficiently is essential.
The above is just general good practice that you should make sure you're doing, but specific to you:
At 12 weeks old, he doesn't know how to settle, you'll have to teach him this. I typically teach this while the puppy is on an elevated bed inside an ex-pen.
Put the bed & pen next to wherever you sit (couch/chair/bed/etc.) and feed the dog treats consistently while you're doing something else (on the computer, reading a book, watching television, etc.).
You're going to want to do this training exercise after physically exhausting him, otherwise you may have some difficulty with it.
Another thing that will be useful is to capture the behavior when he naturally does it.
Example:- he walks over to his bed or crate, and lies down and settles by himself
- you take a treat out of your pocket and toss it on the ground next to him and go back to doing what you were doing and letting him do what he was doing
A big thing that will help you is starting to focus on crate training. If you start doing crate training exercises when it isn't bedtime, then it'll accelerate your progress.
Get him used to being in the crate during the day, and for different amounts of time. If he only goes in the crate at night and stays there for 8 hours, he might think he's going to stay in for 8 hours in the day too. Show him that sometimes he'll be in the crate for 2 minutes while you take out the trash or put the laundry in, and other times he'll be in the crate for 4-6 hours when you want to go out and get dinner downtown. Give him different pictures of the crate and what being in the crate is.
Also, getting him to like the crate is a big consideration as well. I think I have older posts that go into this, but the threads may have been deleted.
I'll just give one tip about it this post: put the crate next to the place you sit, put him in the crate, give him a chew treat (bully stick, pig's ear, etc.) and close the door, sit down next to him and do something where the attention isn't on him (computer, book, etc.), and let him self-satisfy and enjoy doing something on his own but in your company. This will greatly help him develop a calm and relaxed disposition around you. You want to be sure that you clock downtime like this with him, otherwise, he won't settle in your presence.
Lastly, the whining in the crate. At this young of an age, I would immediately go to the puppy the first time he whines and put a lead on him in the crate and walk him outside for toilet. If he goes, or if doesn't go after a few minutes, walk him back to the crate and put him back in. This is going to teach him that he will have a chance to go to the bathroom. If he whines after this, IGNORE HIM. This is important, otherwise you'll teach him to whine when he wants to get out and/or whining will be his way of calling you.
Luckily this doesn't usually last too long. Pretty soon he should get the idea that he will be given a chance to go to the bathroom, and you should stop going to him if he whines. Once he understands this though, a lot of the whining should stop (for now). Then you'll have to work on the whining he rehearses from not liking the crate/the sensation of having space restricted, and then the whining he rehearses from not wanting to be in there (this last one is dealt with by simply ignoring).
The best advice for this particular crate issue is this: take him to toilet first, then after he goes, put him in the crate.
Also, like all else, start slowly with the amount of time you leave him in the crate during the day.
All the best.
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I always find it curious when people want to crate dogs/puppies during the day when they are at home. I never did, and never had problems with a pup not settling down to nap when they were tired. Sure, they may get into trouble if you aren't paying attention, and crating to keep them out of mischief when you are absent is a different thing, but a pup in a crate learns nothing about house rules, so you miss the chance to teach what is permissible and what is not. Puppyhood is a short time relative to the life of the dog, and it is a golden opportunity to mould your pup into the dog you want him/her to be....
"In order to get along with a Basenji, you have to be at least half as smart as the dog!"
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@eeeefarm I totally agree ! Mine have never been crated except in the car when it is essential. When I go out, they are never left for very long, absolute maximum of 4 hours and that only occasionally - they have a dog-proof room and all curl up and sleep. When I am at home there is absolutely no question of a crate. Day or night.
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@eeeefarm - I totally agree with you eeeefarm... when I am home, my Basenjis, especially puppies are with me... as noted with a 12wk old, they are learning to be without their littermates.... puppies "pile" on top of each other... that is what they do. Take away the rest of the litter and the pup is looking for their "new pack".... They need to be with you and the family... they will find a spot to "crash" when they are tired... my puppies always did.
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@tanza
Tamu when she was a pup....yes, they like to be with you!
....but Tamu had to give Lady her space at first!
Eventually Lady decided they could share....and they almost always slept together.
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We all live with dogs differently and we all want different things out of our dogs. I'm also willing to bet that we all have different reasons for having a dog.
In addition, I'm certain that we all have different expectations for our dogs and how they should behave and what they should do. As you guys are pet owners, you probably don't need to focus on things that I as an active/sport/protection dog owner need to. And, truthfully, you guys can probably live with more than I can.
Furthermore, as a trainer I do more things with my dogs than you guys do, things that you guys probably couldn't do with your dogs, and probably wouldn't want to do. The crate, as you know eeefarm, is wonderful for social isolation, confidence-building, and many other things that are essential if you want to get a dog to do things with you in certain environments with serious distractions. The crate is also an incredible tool for teaching all kinds of skills, behaviors, concepts, etc. Most people haven't a clue about the true value of a crate when it comes to changing behavior and helping mold character and personality. Even pet dog owners would benefit greatly if they were educated on how to properly use a crate.
And it's true, there's millions of people who don't use crates and their dogs and their household are absolutely fine...but then again, there's millions who don't use crates and their house is constantly being torn up, or their dog has emotional problems or mental problems (obsessions, compulsions, neurosis, ticks, etc.) or is reactive, and a lot of this can be avoided by using the crate. Having a dog that is well-adjusted to being in a crate, and can self-satisfy in a locked crate, and on command, is such a valuable thing.
Now, the OP might not be an active dog owner, but he is having a problem, and the recommendation I gave is what I would do if he paid me for my services.
And for what it's worth, puppyhood lasts longer than most believe, and the dog is still constantly learning outside of little puppyhood.
All love.
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@Scagnetti said in Wet weather exercise:
eeefarm
You left out an "e"
I would absolutely agree that confinement works well for specific purposes, not the least of which is making your attention more valuable to the dog since it is rationed. However, it is a poor trainer who can't figure out how to deal with various problems and modify behaviour when necessary. I prefer to do that and end up with a dog that is reliable in the house without constant supervision and without crating once they have learned your expectations. Of course one takes proper precautions until the dog has proven him/herself trustworthy.
And yes, I have experience dealing with mature dogs with problems that I managed to resolve successfully. Not to mention several dogs I taught to be reliable off leash in the city, back when there were no leash laws. Dogs trained by me would not cross a street unless at heel. Back in the day we didn't consider that too big a deal.
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@eeeefarm said in Wet weather exercise:
@Scagnetti said in Wet weather exercise:
eeefarm
You left out an "e"
I would absolutely agree that confinement works well for specific purposes, not the least of which is making your attention more valuable to the dog since it is rationed. However, it is a poor trainer who can't figure out how to deal with various problems and modify behaviour when necessary. I prefer to do that and end up with a dog that is reliable in the house without constant supervision and without crating once they have learned your expectations. Of course one takes proper precautions until the dog has proven him/herself trustworthy.
And yes, I have experience dealing with mature dogs with problems that I managed to resolve successfully. Not to mention several dogs I taught to be reliable off leash in the city, back when there were no leash laws. Dogs trained by me would not cross a street unless at heel. Back in the day we didn't consider that too big a deal.
My apologies. It was done in haste. (If it makes you feel better, rereading my post, it wasn't the only spelling error.)
I have no doubts about your capabilities, friend. We differ on several things, and agree on several things, but it's obvious you know what you're talking about. That being said, I wouldn't be able to achieve the high-level of behavior I desire to create without using a crate, and I don't know of any professional who can, with any breed, much less a Basenji.
My initial comment was a response to the OP regarding his inquiry about using the crate more effectively. But in my last post I directed it to everyone else who wondered about the point of using a crate.
I hope to one day be able to make high quality videos of me training different skills with a Basenji puppy, but I don't know how to use cameras. Perhaps I'll hire a professional.
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Thank you all for your replies. And it's always good to hear different views.
Longer term I certainly don't intend to crate him when I'm home but I can see the value in (a) getting him comfortable in there for when I do need to crate him when I'm out and (b) using it to get myself a little breathing room while he's settling in, so training for a dog who's happy in his crate is definitely a priority even if I hope not to have to do it all that often.
Once he's had all his shots and is close to adult size, I intend to run with him in the mornings (I usually do about 10 km) and give him a hourlong evening walk which I hope will give him enough exercise and entertainment to keep him settled during the work day. That feels like it might be close to a year before he's up to that kind of exercise load though so it's great to have some strategies for his puppy phase.
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@Scagnetti said in Wet weather exercise:
My apologies. It was done in haste. (If it makes you feel better, rereading my post, it wasn't the only spelling error.)
It's just that 3 x e makes no sense! eeee=for ease, which is what we labelled out farm (yes, irony!)
"In order to get along with a Basenji, you have to be at least half as smart as the dog!"
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@Scagnetti said in Wet weather exercise:
I wouldn't be able to achieve the high-level of behavior I desire to create without using a crate, and I don't know of any professional who can, with any breed, much less a Basenji.
No question, Basenjis can be difficult. Personally I think they are less of a challenge than most scent hounds.
I'm editing this post because this is turning into a thread hijack, but suffice it to say IMO the mental leash is stronger by far than the physical one, and if you can get your dog on your wavelength then anything is possible. The more practice the dog gets in controlling himself rather than being controlled the better he will fit into the household. As I said previously, they don't learn when they can't make mistakes.
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@t89rex said in Wet weather exercise:
That feels like it might be close to a year before he's up to that kind of exercise
You certainly shouldn't embark on 10 km (6 mile) runs before he is structurally up to it ! There are all kinds of theories about distances for young puppies. Personally, with 40 years of experience and anything from 1 to 8 Basenjis at a time, I find they let you know when they have had enough. And having a sling to carry a small dog in is a godsend.
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@eeeefarm said in Wet weather exercise:
@Scagnetti said in Wet weather exercise:
I wouldn't be able to achieve the high-level of behavior I desire to create without using a crate, and I don't know of any professional who can, with any breed, much less a Basenji.
No question, Basenjis can be difficult. Personally I think they are less of a challenge than most scent hounds.
I'm editing this post because this is turning into a thread hijack, but suffice it to say IMO the mental leash is stronger by far than the physical one, and if you can get your dog on your wavelength then anything is possible. The more practice the dog gets in controlling himself rather than being controlled the better he will fit into the household. As I said previously, they don't learn when they can't make mistakes.
I'm not sure what this is in reference to. I made no mention of a leash and a mental leash isn't going to do what a crate does. Although I think the mental leash, as you call it, is necessary as well, but it's not the same as a crate, they accomplish different things. The concept of self-control in dogs is absolutely paramount, but that concept isn't a tool, the crate is a tool that can do so many things so very effectively.
I would've liked to know what your original post said, perhaps there would be more context for me regarding the thrust of your point about a mental leash.
And I feel I should say this: there are a million ways to effectively train a dog. The tools used, the exercises done, and the focus given on specific skills, is all individualized to the dog in front of you. What works for one dog may never work for another dog. Another element is the trainer and how they act and live and what they project. The advice I give on this forum is general good practice information and standard behavior modification protocol. When I have enough information to give specific advice, I do so. But most of the time, and especially with puppies, there are just standard exercises that need to be done, and crate training is one of them. I don't say this is true of you, but most people who are against crates, don't know how to properly use them or even what they're used for. When someone does in fact want to know how to effectively use a crate, I'm happy to explain how.
@t89rex said in Wet weather exercise:
Thank you all for your replies. And it's always good to hear different views.
Longer term I certainly don't intend to crate him when I'm home but I can see the value in (a) getting him comfortable in there for when I do need to crate him when I'm out and (b) using it to get myself a little breathing room while he's settling in, so training for a dog who's happy in his crate is definitely a priority even if I hope not to have to do it all that often.
Once he's had all his shots and is close to adult size, I intend to run with him in the mornings (I usually do about 10 km) and give him a hourlong evening walk which I hope will give him enough exercise and entertainment to keep him settled during the work day. That feels like it might be close to a year before he's up to that kind of exercise load though so it's great to have some strategies for his puppy phase.
Very smart! Walking a puppy is often the worst way to exercise them.
I would suggest taking the dog to an enclosed area like a fenced off back yard or a giant field with a long lead, and do engagement work, i.e. chase with food with the dog activating you.
How it's done:
Have a bowl with some treats (I do this with their meal) placed where it's easy for you to access but impossible for him to reach.
Take some food in your hand and wait for him to look at you. Once he gives you eye contact, run backward, away from him and let him chase you.
When he catches up to you, stop and give him food. Then wait for him to give you eye contact again and run when he does. Keep doing this, running around, feeding him until the food's gone.
This teaches many things, one of them is that the dog learns that his behavior and actions have a direct effect on you and what you do.
When the dog learns that he's the one making you move, he loves it and really gets into the activity.
Another thing this exercise does is strengthen your relationship; this is invaluable.
Also, this activity will help get your dog used to following you and running to you instead of away from you, making the recall process a little bit easier because the dog already knows how to run back to you and already loves doing it.
If you're serious about training, and care about communicating with your dog, you can use markers (or a clicker) in this exercise, if you've already charged them. Before you start the session use your begin marker (mine is "ready"). Whenever the dog looks at you mark it with your positive marker (mine is "yes") and then run. And when you've come to the end of the session, use your finished marker (mine is "all done").
There is no doubt that this is an athletic endeavor. I've seen several people hurt themselves badly by tripping over themselves, and have heard of other people hurting themselves by running into something, which is why you need an open space for this exercise. A field with a long lead is usually the solution for apartment dwellers.
All the best.
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@Scagnetti said in Wet weather exercise:
What works for one dog may never work for another dog.
Truer words....
My point about the mental vs physical leash wasn't leash specific, just that physical control no matter via what tool doesn't allow the dog the chance to make mistakes and learn.
When I started with dogs nobody used crates except for dog shows. Confining to a room was about as far as it went with puppies until they were housebroken and learned the behaviour expected of them.
Agreed, everyone has different requirements of their dog. e.g. in our family growing up, there were rooms that were off limits. We didn't close doors, we taught the dog to stay out of those rooms and he complied. Our family dog knew high level obedience, although he was never shown. And never received food rewards, only praise.
"In order to get along with a Basenji, you have to be at least half as smart as the dog!"
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@eeeefarm said in Wet weather exercise:
eeee=for ease
you did a fly-by....
eeee=for ease -?-@eeeefarm said in Wet weather exercise:
I'm editing this post because this is turning into a thread hijack
IMHO, so much worthwhile information!
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@eeeefarm said in Wet weather exercise:
physical control no matter via what tool doesn't allow the dog the chance to make mistakes and learn.
I agree there - 100 %. I'm not a trainer but for 41 years now I have owned, bred and showed Basenjis so am not exactly inexperienced at getting my dogs to behave and conform and have fun !
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@eeeefarm said in Wet weather exercise:
@Scagnetti said in Wet weather exercise:
What works for one dog may never work for another dog.
Truer words....
My point about the mental vs physical leash wasn't leash specific, just that physical control no matter via what tool doesn't allow the dog the chance to make mistakes and learn.
When I started with dogs nobody used crates except for dog shows. Confining to a room was about as far as it went with puppies until they were housebroken and learned the behaviour expected of them.
Agreed, everyone has different requirements of their dog. e.g. in our family growing up, there were rooms that were off limits. We didn't close doors, we taught the dog to stay out of those rooms and he complied. Our family dog knew high level obedience, although he was never shown. And never received food rewards, only praise.
Dogs have no difficulty making mistakes. Mistake-making is inevitable. Your argument reminds me of trainers that go out of their way to train negative markers and corrective markers. You don't need to set a dog up for failure, he'll get there on his own. The important thing is knowing what to do when they do fail.
Also, there's a time and place for everything. In the house, I don't want them rehearsing bad behavior or making mistakes. And for what it's worth, making mistakes isn't the only way of learning, in fact it's not even the best way of learning.
Crates have been used for a very long time. Definitely not as popular as now, but they were absolutely still used. Perhaps their use in dog clubs around you were rare, but sport dog owners have been using them a long time, as well as protection dog owners.
I have never shown a dog and never will. Dog showing and dog training are different activities. There's an amount of training needed to show, but it isn't even close to the same thing as the intensive, all-around training needed for an IPO dog or a Schutzhund dog.
In the end, there's only one real consideration for pet dog owners: what can you live with? If you can live with your dog, then you're doing the right thing.
All love.
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@Zande - Agree with both Zande and eeeefarm.... Same with me, I am a trainer for my own dogs or ones that I bred/placed, shown in both conformation and performance. Mine learn manners from birth if whelped here.... that said when I am home, they are with the family, period... only time they are not is as unweaned babies, they spend time with their littermates, split with the family and in their puppy pens, but even that is in my office off the family room/kitchen so they hear/see the activity. I have never had an issue crate training.... they are comfortable in their kennels...
