New to the basenji world, need HELP!

[Lysh]

i agree with the biting you part that Andrea mentions, we done this heaps with Hope when she was a pup and now she is the best to play with as she mouths so gently!

its their way of playing, Hope loves it when we play rough with her and we can still play rough with her cos she knows her boundaries. I know plenty of dogs that their human hasnt taught about mouthing and now have issues when the dog does play and gets too aggressive with the mouthing, yet doesnt know he is doing wrong.

p.s. if i rouse on Hope when shes doing something naughty - its a big game. I find using "ahh" at a grumble works best, otherwise we go B500 lets play! (this was when she was a pup, now we just need to go 'ah' and she'll quit it). Also neat trick - if you can read your basenji's body language and know what they are about to do something naughty - beat them to it (example: hope goes to scratch at door, i know shes going to by her body language, i say ah and she veers off and she knows EXACTLY what i meant). I guess this just comes when you get to know you B

[sharronhurlbut]

Andrea.
Are you the GREAT trainer I know??

[wizard]

I didn't start with a pup as young as yours but my last one was definitely a chewer. The "lower levels" of every room were cleared of puppy-no-nos and old sheets and afghans were on every couch and chair for a good year. Interactive toys stuffed with treats or frozen yogurt/peanutbutter/kibble or frozen uncooked soup bones helped with boredom while I had to be gone. In fact, if you can work it, I would suggest trying to get the dog used to being alone in longer and longer increments (I had to arrange some vacation time to make this work but it was worth it). I'm gone to work 9-10 hours and she is loose in the house without any problem. The toy trade worked well (I also used this a a means of being able to take away bones or other food without the dog getting snarly - a handy skill) as did posititve reinforcement training - ANY TIME good behavior occurred a treat came out, whether in official training time or not (you can cut treats in smaller bits if worried about too many treats being fed).
Consistency consistency consistency and practice practice practice.
And do enroll in an obedience class or two but check out the instructor and method. Positive reinforcement training (especially with clickers) works wonders with basenjis. Bypass instructors that have the philosophy of "by next week your dog should …" or you'll find yourself discouraged as dogs that aren't bred to please humans (like labs, retrievers, aussies are) take longer to train.

[Nilo]

@Kipawa:

Good suggestions. The only one I wonder about is giving him a 'good' toy when he leaves a 'bad' one alone. Yes, you need to distract when they are with something they are not allowed to be with, but I wonder if your basenji is going to catch on to this pattern and use it to his advantage. Just a thought.

I agree, "trading" works great with basenjis, so whenever he grabs or chew whatever he is not supposed, try to give him one of his toys, like a Kong stuffed with a treat or a little peanut butter, he will love it.
He is 16 weeks and chewing is just a stage that will end with proper techinques. I went through the same and I thought that it would never change, but it did. You just need LOTS of patience and if you could try to live him if possible less time in the crate, or compensate it with mind games and physical activity.

[Anubis's Mommy]

MENTAL STIMULATION! Anubis was the SAME way when he was younger. Chew chew chew on EVERYTHING. And I agree about him needing to be out of the crate more. When Anubis was crated too much he was ULTRA destructive…even to his crate! You can see some bent bars on the door and sides...its crazy! He'd throw a fit and shred his bedding and sometimes urinate. I started taking him for longer walks and to the dog park more. I also got him some "puzzle toys". Some of them you put treats in and the dog has to move it a certain way to get the treat to come out and such. Anubis' favorite one is when I put peanut butter inside a KONG toy. He has to work hard and concentrate on getting the peanut butter out of it. He LOVES IT!

[CanisBasenjius]

@sharronhurlbut:

Andrea.
Are you the GREAT trainer I know??

Ha ha! I suppose so! Thanks for the kind words, Sharron.

[DebraDownSouth]

Andrea, great post. I have taught many dogs bite inhibition at a much older age, though… only thing you wrote I don't heartily agree with.

I do remember my first basenji experience though. I have trained and worked with dogs my entire adult life. So imagine my surprise when squeaking caused her to bite MORE, lol. Change of tactics. Life offers us so many opportunities to learn new things.

[Patty]

Debra - I'd be interested to know the method you use to teach bite inhbition in older dogs (do you mean adults as well?).

I find that the best teachers of bite inhibiton are the parents and siblings whenin the nest. I reinforce this as Andrea advises - my pups leave here with bite inhibition but I have had to take an adult back who does seem to have 'lost' his bite inhibtion in his previous home. We are working on it and he seems very gentle with us but I won't even consider rehoming him until I've managed to ensure he is bite inhibited with everyone.

I believe it's the tone of the 'squeak' that makes the difference. It may be that your Basenji who bit harder mistook it for a 'fear' squeak if you understand what I mean.

[DebraDownSouth]

Patty, in reality, mouthy adults learn much the way of puppies. By mouthy I don't mean aggressive, but simply using their mouth to play bite. Yipping, ignoring, or holding mouth closed and teach the "close your mouth" command in that order. Many stop with the yip and ignore. Some you just have to teach the close command before they get it.

I totally agree learning with the litter and mom are the very best. In fact, although we rarely have information on adult rescues in rehab, I would bet many were taken young from the litter. Many of the pet owners I have worked with absolutely got puppies taken too young from the mom. It's the cycle… irresponsible breeders placing too young, owners who don't know enough to find good breeders and also don't know how to teach bite inhibition. But some of course are orphaned pups or from shelters. I am glad some states make placing before 8 weeks illegal, but sadly all the owner has to do is lie about the age.

With adults, in your situation, I would tend to teach "close your mouth" as opposed to just a soft mouth, btw. Your dog had bite inhibition, just needs to relearn it.

Long ago Kathy Diamond Davis and I discussed the issue with my OWN Rottie who simply could not, would not, keep her mouth off her family (no one else). Excited? Wrapped her mouth around a body part. Never the slightest bit of tooth pressure. Her soft mouth was fine for us, but what if she, a 90 pound dog, did it to someone else, even without hurting them? Anyway, Kathy's method worked for her most of the time if we saw her getting revved up and used the "CLOSE IT" command.
http://www.worldclassgsd.com/behavior_tips/biting.htm

Kathy is a friend, and you can contact her if you have issues, just tell her I sent you. LOL, I like the hard dogs, but Kathy is super with fearful and timid ones. She also helped save a raving maniac Lhasa that I couldn't bear to put down (severe abuse) but also wasn't happy getting mauled by. When upset, Hannah would charge and bite. Kathy said "get a laundry basket, drop it on her mid charge and give her time to think about it without the fear of you trying to physically stop her." It was miraculous. In about 5 times, the charging stopped with a command, eventually didn't even begin. We placed her with a friend where she got to live out her life in peace.

I will never take another Lhasa, btw. 6 mos of prozac to get her over fear of night, almost a year before she was ready to place even in a protected environment that could absolutely assure no child would ever be near her. I won't bore with details beyond that but the rescue group that asked me to rehab her is still apologizing. (they didn't admit til after I took her that Hannah was short for "hannibell Lecter.") And yes, normally such a dog would have been put to sleep by me in a flash, but her history and her incredible sweetness at other times made it so hard. Even my vet who wanted me to put her down, when she was hospitalized for 2 wks for an eye infection (in her adoption home by then) admitted she was very glad I didn't.

[Patty]

Thank you Debra. I'll teach the 'close your mouth' as you suggest. Arrow is an exceedingly quick learner and a lovely boy apart from the mouth behaviour!

I have found that many problem Basenjis I've encountered over the years have been 'disposed of' (I use that term rather than homed) at 6 weeks (and these particularly from a breeder which many would call responsible!) so I totally agree with you .

I've little experience with Lhasa Apsos but do know of a really vicious Chi that could do with some of that behavioural treatment!

Thank you again.

[TenjiTheBasenji]

If chewing is a huge problem and your basenji is constantly destroying stuff you can try put something like RUB A535, Absorbine jr, HEAT or a similar product on anything you don't want to get chewed to keep them away while you do your puppy classes. They hate the smell of it and if they're dumb enough to actually put their mouth on it they get a horrible bitter taste and will NOT go back to that item again! I had also tried the commercial anti-chews that just had a bitter taste and they were completely useless…infact Tenji even enjoyed licking a few of them.

[CanisBasenjius]

@DebraDownSouth:

Andrea, great post. I have taught many dogs bite inhibition at a much older age, though… only thing you wrote I don't heartily agree with.

Yes, I understand that it is possible but I'd like to know more about it. Generally it's accepted that teaching remedial ABI is difficult to do at best, at least amongst the trainers I know, talk to and read. Dunbar says he's done it but I tried to pin him down at a seminar and he was evasive. I was hoping to get specifics, training program and how to test it or pointed at one. He said to buy his DVDs. I did.

Best I could find was teaching a better ritualized bite and jaw prudence and done my best to scour books and websites as well (and speaking with colleagues, natch). What I found didn't really satisfy me. I mean, when I think of teaching ABI, I am thinking of teaching it so that it holds up even under duress since that's when it's most important.

For instance a colleague was recently contacted about a Level 5 biter. If it's possible to teach reliable ABI in adult dogs THAT dog should be a candidate for sure. I'd love to assist someone teaching it to a dog like that, or in training a dog that has poor ABI with other dogs. How could you train and test that safely or humanely? What is the liability there? Pretty serious, I would think.

I do remember my first basenji experience though. I have trained and worked with dogs my entire adult life. So imagine my surprise when squeaking caused her to bite MORE, lol. Change of tactics. Life offers us so many opportunities to learn new things.

Ah yes, I've had one of those. I changed to a calm "too bad" and then removing myself. Worked MUCH better. Depends on the dog.

EDIT: I just looked at the site you linked and what she is talking about is what I refer to as 'jaw prudence'. When I use ABI, I'm referring to how hard the dog bites when it bites, not if it puts its mouth on you. For instance, your Rottie I would say had great ABI but iffy jaw prudence. OTOH, there are dogs with great jaw prudence but the one time they use their mouths they do it will full jaw force. I'd much prefer the former.