Nice, they are about in a few different adverts, I spot them every now and again.
And so it begins….the shame.
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Me too. Agree with lvoss and renaultf1. +100!
Nobody knows your pet like you do and therefore nobody can make those decisions better.
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I do think it is a personal decision, either way.
There are good reasons to alter before an issue arises. Pyometra in bitches is a serious problem and waiting until they get it before spaying puts the bitch at very high risk since at that time the uterus is filled with pus and bacteria from the infection and prone to rupture which can lead to serious complications and death. For some males the long term toll that rut takes on them is a serious concern. When you are feeding 2-3 cups a day and you dog is skin and bones and an anxious mess you know that is effecting his entire body.
There are also reasons to keep dogs intact, like waiting for the growth plates to close or other health conditions that make anesthesia more risky. In the end, it should be the owner's decision because they are the one that knows their dog best.
Well said.
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I agree as well..
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There are some articles on Dolittler about vasectomy as an option for people who want the population control, but do not want to loose the testosterone drive, or worry about growth plates, etc.
While there are advantages to removing the sex hormones, there are also disadvantages. It makes me wonder why Dolittler is the only place I have ever seen discussing population control options that do not remove the testes.
-Nicole
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@AJs:
Me too. Agree with lvoss and renaultf1. +100!
Nobody knows your pet like you do and therefore nobody can make those decisions better.
Then how can you justify people that neuter their dogs before they get them? Or have them neutered at just a few months old? You hardly "know" your dog at that stage, it's still in the puppy stages. Feels like the Minority Report, we judge before they act.
The more I think about it the more I see the logic in waiting until the dog is at least 1 year old so you can observe just how he/she acts in different situations, especially mating season. Actually waiting 2 years would be better.
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The more I think about it the more I see the logic in waiting until the dog is at least 1 year old so you can observe just how he/she acts in different situations, especially mating season. Actually waiting 2 years would be better.
Definitely agree here. When I was talking to our breeder about wanting to get on the waiting list for the puppy, I mentioned that if he wasn't a pup with show potential, I still didn't want to neuter him until he was mature, because I want to complete in sports with him. I said that it seemed to me that Basenjis mature slow, so I wanted to wait until he was at least 2, and if he was maturing more slowly, maybe even longer.
She agreed that could be something she could work with, which made me very happy.-Nicole
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Again, as I said earlier, it is a matter of choice. From the education I am getting here, Europe does not have the human irresponsibility problem we have in the States. There are more wide open spaces here and more people are inclined to allow their pets to roam.
I am an advocate for neuter because it does make for an easier pet, many studies have shown neuter and spayed animals are less stressed and (here, anyway) there is an overpopulation problem. One glaring example of this is the important notice posted by BRAT just yesterday. I suggested neuter to you because you are describing problems with Giz that are very often corrected by neutering.
However, he is your dog. If and when you do this is your decision. Early neutering almost completely eliminates the sex drive issues you are currently dealing with. Rescue groups and shelters insist on spay and neuter because they don't want to rescue more dogs down the line.
I was just surprised that your government has laws about how you care for your pet in this regard…that is, not allowing it. It's the first time I've heard of a government getting involved in it on the do not neuter side of the fence.
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Providing links seems to be my MO, so I am going to give 3 here regarding benefits and risks of spay/neuter. They are long, and technical and very, very worth reading.
My favorite is the Sanborne article, which is what I used as a major deciding factor in my decision to wait until maturity to neuter any male I own in the future.
The Kustritz article is my second favorite, especially because she clearly makes the point that shelter dogs should be treated as a population, and in the US should always be neutered before being placed. I wholeheartedly agree with that.
The last makes good points, but only shows the negatives associated with spay neuter, and, IMO crosses the line into propaganda a little bit.
Often in the US, people are not told the disadvantages to spay/neuter, because overpopulation kills so many cats and dogs.
The first 2 are pdf.http://www.cdoca.org/test/share/files/Sanborne.pdf
http://www.cdoca.org/test/share/files/Optimum%20Age%20For%20SpayNeuter.pdf
http://www.caninesports.com/SpayNeuter.html
-Nicole
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Very good articles Nicole.
I really like the first one, I think I have read that one before, but it deserves a read again.Otis is not neutered yet, but will once we feel his time is here, he is only 10 old, so I am not ready to do that yet. He has not shown any signs of behaviour problems, like marking or agression, nor does he seem stressed from still having his package.
When speaking to the female vet in our office, she said as long as you are a responsible pet owner and actually taking care of your dog not getting out to roam and as long as he isn't causing problems like marking or increased agression and stress, there really is not need to hurry up and have it done.
The other vet in the office, he would've wanted it done when I first got him at 4 months..he is very by the book, and this is what is supposed to happen type of vet ( he is the vet that thinks Science Diet is the best food on the market, no questions asked…)..good vet persay, but leaves me feeling like something is missing...so we visit the vet on fridays and one saturday a month, when Mrs Cardena is at the office..
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I have to say I have always… ALWAYS neutered and spayed my dogs and have NEVER seen this to be true. NEVER.
In fact, In my experience, the neutered dogs get along much better.
I totally agree with this. At most of the dog parks we attend, it is usually the intact dogs that are causing the trouble.
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Then how can you justify people that neuter their dogs before they get them? Or have them neutered at just a few months old? You hardly "know" your dog at that stage, it's still in the puppy stages. Feels like the Minority Report, we judge before they act.
The more I think about it the more I see the logic in waiting until the dog is at least 1 year old so you can observe just how he/she acts in different situations, especially mating season. Actually waiting 2 years would be better.
That may work for those in Europe, but not in the US… as a responsible breeder, I will not selling pup without a spay/neuter contract and until I have proof of the spay/neuter, I am on the papers as a co-owner (same as I would be if the dog/bitch was sold as a possible show prospect). And I would prefer the spay/neuter to be done sooner rather then later (by 1yr for males, before 1st season for bitches) Too many BYB's in the US that are not held to any standards, good breeding practices, or health testing. Too many people that can be "lured" in thinking it is easy money to breed and sell puppies.
However, that said, I do not believe it is the right of a city, state to mandate spay/neuter which is a big problem here in the US brought on by PETA and HSUS.
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These articles make a valid argument more for waiting until after puberty to spay/neuter rather than not at all. I waited until my cat was past her first heat before spay. AJ was neutered as an adult by his previous owner because he got caught, shall we say, with his hand in the cookie jar one time too many.
I can see the benefit to waiting until they are finished growing. As said earlier, sex hormones have a lot to do with bone and muscle growth. I believe (with no scientific evidence to back me up, merely my own observation) that altering the animal at too early an age causes obesity more than waiting until puberty has passed. Neither of my pets is overweight.
But I am still a proponent of spay/neuter if the animal will not be used for breeding or showing purposes. A neutered animal can work as hard and run as fast as any other animal. Will I force my view via laws? Heck, no…it's not my place to tell someone else what to do by force of law. Will I debate and try to sway someone? Sure...that's what we do in the US. And at the end of the day, I will still respect you regardless of your final position on the issue.
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Very interesting discussion - I learned a lot I didn't know.
I must admit the first post about Gizmo had me laughing so hard. -
Ok, I've posted this before, but here is another side effect of not neutering-no matter the age. I had a mini Schnauzer that I wanted to breed, before the age of two, he had no less that three bouts of prostititus costing me upwards of $1000 each time- now that was over 20 years ago, so you can imagine the cost now. I did end up neutering him anyway because after almost dying three times, it wasn't worth the effort anymore. And yes, he still ended up fat, so the arguement against neutering before or after one is really non existent. Your dog can still get fat if neutered after age 1 or before age one. It all depends on how much food is going in vs coming out. This is just MO.
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Update on my story:
I have kept Gizmo away from the Dog Park since the first story, in an attempt to reduce this behavior.
So he has been calm lately, and yesterday I decided to treat him on a trip to the Dog Park.There where around 5 other dogs there, which was nice. Gizmo was VERY eager to get out and play…or so I thought....
The biggest dog was a Boxer, and Gizmo went right up to him and hung out. Things went rather well. I talked a lot to the owners, and they informed me he was well trained, and never bites just makes a lot of noise. So I felt safe after watching Gizmo have fun for 10 minutes or so.
But the Gizmo wants to test out his new fun past time...embarrassing me. So Gizmo "mounts" the boxer on his side (he still hasn't found out what end to work at), and starts doing his "bunny-hop" thrusts.
I go "uh-oh", but the owners just laugh and say "don't worry, The Boxer (I forget his name), will let him know not to do that."
And sure enough The Boxer turns his head and makes a growl and bark. Never biting. Gizmo is stunned, and stands frozen. The Boxer goes back to playing with the other dogs.Gizmo stands away for a few seconds, and then jumps right back at mounting The Boxer. Again his owners laugh and comment that Gizmo just couldn't take the hint.
Well this time The Boxer was more than annoyed. He was pissed. Gizmo got off 2-3 thrusts and The Boxer spun around! All 4 of his feet left the ground as he did a 180 and turned to face Gizmo. He let off a HUGE growl and bark, then a long and serious growl. Had a short stare down at Gizmo, whom then had his ears back, and tail down to the ground...he veeery slowly started to back away.The Boxer then turned back to the other dogs and played. Gizmo on the other hand sat there shocked, his ears still turned back. I could see he was thinking hard "What? I can't do that?"
Gizmo walked, while every 3 steps turned to look at the other dogs playing, back to me and the other owners. He sat down and sat there watching the other dogs play. Every now and then he would stand up, but only to sit down again.Poor little guy, I could see he was "hurt" by being yelled at like that. He really wanted to play, but didn't dare to.
So for the first time, Gizmo came willingly to leave the Dog Park.Hopefully he has learned his lesson. I plan to take a trip to the park today as well.
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It hurts top watch them be corrected by other dogs. I'm glad it was understanding owners who had the Boxer. And I'm glad the Boxer was easy on little Gizmo. He'll learn what's okay and what's not. I hope that Boxer is there next time you go to the park. He sounds like a good teacher.
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Sounds like Gizmo got a good lesson from a fair teacher (the boxer)…Gizmo is lucky!
Better that he be yelled at by the boxer than the alternative. -
I am glad that the Boxer decided to be nice and just yell at Gizmo, some other dog might have gone nuts on him and really told him off. Gizmo will learn what behaviour is Ok and not, especially if he has good, nice teachers..
The more exposure he has to this type of venues the better he will get at reading other dogs andlearn from that.. -
PERFECT!! That is exactly what he needed, and the perfect age to learn it. Once he is an adult, that would probably turn into a fight…but that Boxer should be given the lifetime teacher award! Perfect! Definitely take him again today, and see how it goes, you don't want him to think he isn't allowed to play...just not allowed to hump
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Ahaha, oh I am still laughing after being at the park today. Only one dog was there, BUT it was 1 years old, and still very much a puppy.
So for a twist Gizmo was the one getting mounted!!! Ahahaha! Oh man, it was SO funny seeing Gizmo getting a taste of his own medicine. And to make it even funnier, Gizmo too was doing the mounting stuff.
So we (me and the owner of the other dog), ended up witnessing something that made us both uncomfortable. Gizmo and this other dog switching back and forth.I filmed it, so once I get it uploaded I will post the link. Don't know how well it turned out, since they were pretty far away.
Here is the video, I just put together everything I filmed that day at the park. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bICh8lBeN1c
3:26 is the worst…ugg.
