Colitis or Giardia?

[barklessk9]

The following is from a recent thread:

QUOTE=lvoss Giardia is often not found in the stool even though the dog has it. Usually on and off diarreah points to giardia. Most vets like to treat with Flagyl but IME it usually just recurs in a month after Flagyl. I have had the best results with Panacur. Nicky had these symptoms as a youngster until I found out about Panacur and now I rarely have an issue and when treated with Panacur it clears right up.

My problem:

Zuki is also having problems with diarreah. My vet put her on Flagyl around the 8th of October. I also started putting FortiFlora in her food at that time. She took the last pill on the 13th. Life was good until the 17th when the diarreah returned. I took in a stool sample on the 19th and it was tested for giardia. Test came back negative. Vet is diagnosiing colitis and put her back on Flagyl. I was also told to try and increase fiber so I bought some Metamucil last night to start adding to her diet.

Just a little background on Zuki before questions are asked about her diet, etc. She is 15.5 yrs. old and since July has been slowing down. I have had her for 8 years and she has always been a picky eater. She was on Science Diet L/D for many years because she has high liver values. In July she would no longer eat the food and she is was on an "eat whatever you can diet." She had an ultrasound in August because I was curious if maybe she had cancer (she had thyroid cancer 2 years ago and I thought maybe the cancer had returned and that was why she wasn't eating). The utlrasound did not reveal cancer. It just showed that her liver and kidneys looked like "old dog liver and kidneys" and there was a small spot on her bladder that may or may not be cancer. Her eating has leveled out a bit that the regular diet is a jar of ham baby food and then either a turkey burger or (lean) hamburger (twice a day). I try and sneak in some pumpkin, pasta or mashed potatoes and cheese in the burger patty. Too many offending items will only make her "mad" and not eat.

My question:

I'm trying to anticipate what may happen next, which I'm sure is impossible. But…after she finishes the Flagyl again and IF the diarreah returns, do you think I should request to try a round of Panacur? Has anyone dealt with giardia in an older dog or colitis?

Thanks for any input!
Linda

[tanza]

I would try the Panacur… Knock on wood, none of my elders had problems with either giardia or colitis.. but some did deal with "old" kidneys and renal failure that required SubQ fluids and/or Epagen Hormone shots. They all did quite will.... for a while...

What are her kidney values? Does your Vet advise fluids for her? While mine did not have diarreah, poor kidney values can produce a lot of different symptoms....

[barklessk9]

@tanza:

I would try the Panacur… Knock on wood, none of my elders had problems with either giardia or colitis.. but some did deal with "old" kidneys and renal failure that required SubQ fluids and/or Epagen Hormone shots. They all did quite will.... for a while...

What are her kidney values? Does your Vet advise fluids for her? While mine did not have diarreah, poor kidney values can produce a lot of different symptoms....

No SubQ fluids, only that I should try to get her to drink as much as possible. She even suggested some broth, but she doesn't like it. I do not know the numbers off hand, but her last bloodwork done in July indicated elevated liver (elevated from already elevated) and kidney values. She isn't due for bloodwork until December to recheck for her Cushing's and Thyroid medications, but maybe I'll look into running some early to recheck the liver and kidneys.

[nobarkus]

@barklessk9:

No SubQ fluids, only that I should try to get her to drink as much as possible. She even suggested some broth, but she doesn't like it. I do not know the numbers off hand, but her last bloodwork done in July indicated elevated liver (elevated from already elevated) and kidney values. She isn't due for bloodwork until December to recheck for her Cushing's and Thyroid medications, but maybe I'll look into running some early to recheck the liver and kidneys.

Here's what I did with my older B (15-1/2) last year that really helped. Dr Dodd's liver cleansing diet. Real simple and it worked great.

http://www.canine-epilepsy.com/Liver%20cleansing%20diet.htm

[barklessk9]

Thanks, Dan. You had sent me that info. back in July when I was struggling with diet. She wouldn't eat it.

[nobarkus]

@barklessk9:

Thanks, Dan. You had sent me that info. back in July when I was struggling with diet. She wouldn't eat it.

Wow, even with yams? Try white rice instead of potatoes.

[barklessk9]

@nobarkus:

Wow, even with yams? Try white rice instead of potatoes.

She said "no, ma'am" to the yam. She will eat the white rice or potatoes once in a blue moon. Shy didn't really like the fish either. The Missing Link was a flop with her and my healthy, will-eat-anything boy.

[tanza]

@nobarkus:

Wow, even with yams? Try white rice instead of potatoes.

Dan, I can tell you also from experience, mine would not even touch the liver diet… and they had always been "pigs"....

Yet as younger dogs Yams were a favorite

[nobarkus]

@tanza:

Dan, I can tell you also from experience, mine would not even touch the liver diet… and they had always been "pigs"....

Yet as younger dogs Yams were a favorite

Interesting. My older B gobbled it down and her health, liver enzymes improved greatly.

[tanza]

@barklessk9:

No SubQ fluids, only that I should try to get her to drink as much as possible. She even suggested some broth, but she doesn't like it. I do not know the numbers off hand, but her last bloodwork done in July indicated elevated liver (elevated from already elevated) and kidney values. She isn't due for bloodwork until December to recheck for her Cushing's and Thyroid medications, but maybe I'll look into running some early to recheck the liver and kidneys.

If you are comfortable giving SubQ at home, you should talk to your Vet about it. One thing for sure, it will not hurt…. When Kristii started with renal failure.. she wanting nothing to do with eating.. period... after one treatment, SubQ she wanted and did eat... and still is... with renal failure they get tummy upset, so also she get one Pepcid a day (antiacid), a high dose B complex and 1 SAMe before dinner. We have a deal, I will not try and hide the pills in food (which really will make them stop eating..looking for that pill)... and she will let me shove them down her with out too much fuss. Also we found that her Red Blood Count was really low due to her kidney values... we put her on Epagen shot once a week (but it is pricey) ... and they went from 18% to 41% which is excellent and has been holding there without a shot for the last four weeks... and she is feeling really good now and eating.. By the way, she also has and has always had very high liver values... I do cook for her... she is eating Squash, Cauliflower, Zucchini, all steamed and then cut up, with shrimp diced and either an egg or ground chicken, turkey, or beef. All sauteed in a little butter... and she loves it... she is not big on potatoes but I can mix in a little.... Oh and she will be 15 December 15th
So bottom line, if my girl, I would have another blood test done and see where she is as far as maybe trying the fluids and/or Epagen if she has anemia

[barklessk9]

Pat -

Thanks for the info! Once she's done witht he Flagyl I'll see how it goes and then plan my next step. I will try the supplements - if they aren't too big I'll try and give them to her. Pills are a challenge, and like food, I've tried all kinds of methods. If I can't get them down at least I can take them!

Linda

[Basenjimamma]

I crush Otis' pills between two spoons and stir it into his food, I do add something moist, like cottage cheese ot the like, to make sure he get every bit of the pills in him..

This was when he was on Flagyl and Panacur, for diarrhea a few months ago. His Giardia test came back negative as well, but the vet had a "hunch" and put him on panacur anyway..it worked wonders.

I sure hope she feels better soon..

[tanza]

I have stopped trying to hide pills in food… I just make a "deal" with them that I will not hide the pills, therefore they don't have to go and look for them... but in exchange, they "have" to let me pill them.... it works 90% of the time..

[lvoss]

The Panacur that I use is a powder so it is meant to go on the food. Mine are not picky eaters so have no problem with them eating their dinner with the panacur on it. I have been feeding homecooked dinners for them since late June.

[Basenjimamma]

lVoss,
I think you are right, The Panacur we used was a powder too, but the flagyl wasn't. Otis will take pills, just makes it easier to crush and put on food along with his enzymes and probiotic powder..

[barklessk9]

@lvoss:

The Panacur that I use is a powder so it is meant to go on the food. Mine are not picky eaters so have no problem with them eating their dinner with the panacur on it. I have been feeding homecooked dinners for them since late June.

Thanks! It is good to know that it's a powder - it may not go over well with her. I'm willing to try though if the vet will let me.